The Reason why Southwest backed away from the deal for now?

[invertedattitude]

Excerpt
Southwest Airlines has upped its initial bid to acquire bankrupt Frontier Airlines to more than $170 million in cash.
* * *
An auction at Frontier's bankruptcy law firm in New York was expected to begin Tuesday between Southwest and Republic Airways Holdings.
* * *
Republic had made a $108.7 million offer to buy Frontier and its subsidiary, Lynx Aviation. Southwest, a rival of Frontier's at Denver International Airport, initially topped Republic's offer with a $113.6 million bid.
* * *
The offer contemplates that Southwest acquire about 80 percent of Frontier's existing Airbus fleet, which translates into about 40 aircraft, plus all of Lynx.

Once the auction is concluded, the bankruptcy court must still approve the selection of the winning bidder. From there, the bid will undergo review by the United States Department of Justice, which is normal and customary when one airline is purchasing another.

Frontier would operate its Airbus aircraft as it does today, Southwest officials said. Frontier's fleet would be retired with a transition to Southwest's Boeing 737s over about two years.

Despite the initial reduction in the fleet, Southwest officials said they intend to maintain all existing markets, as well as add new nonstop routes from Denver that are not served by either Southwest or Frontier today.
* * *
Frontier chief executive Sean Menke outlined the process for the Denver-based airline's employees in an e-mail sent late last week.

"I am sure many of you want an answer sooner rather than later," Menke's e-mail said, "but those of you who know me well I will be very meticulous in listening and analyzing the options put before us."

Menke said he was proud of what the Frontier employees have accomplished since the airline filed for bankruptcy protection in April 2008.

"To put it simply: we were written off," Menke said. "Fortunately, we are some pretty thick-skinned and damned determined individuals."

Because of the hard work, "we now have two enviable organizations, Republic and Southwest, vying to own our company. The leaders of both of these organizations have been complimentary to us, the team members, and steps taken to restructure in these difficult times."

Source: http://www.denverpost.com/newsheadlines/ci_13030511

[CanadaEH]

That might have something to do with it.

Another could be that the initial agreement with SW and WS was supposed to begin late this year. Unfortunately our reservation system got delayed and won't be launching until Oct/Nov. Southwest also doesn't have a reservation system capable of handling what both airlines require. Better to delay the launch to let WS iron out the kinks and to let SW get a new reservation system itself. The launch of the Volaris & SW interline is apparently on sked for 2010 sometime.

[invertedattitude]

Interesting.

It amazes me, it's been years since I worked for an airline, and did some CSA work, never for WJA, but for others.

It amazes me even in todays technology how antiquated even the "latest" res systems are.

From what my better half has told me about the latest WJA system it is leaps and bounds above the old one however.

[CanadaEH]

Yup. And that's the basic stuff.

[lawndart]

June 3 2009

The membership of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (SWAPA) "officially declined to ratify a new five-year contract with Southwest Airlines....At that point, SWAPA President Capt. Carl Kuwitzky had said, "While this contract isn’t perfect, it does include improvements in many areas and shores up very old language that will protect our pilots'”
"Many in our pilot group are extremely sensitive to codesharing flights that Southwest Airlines could possibly fly. While some degree of codeshare is allowed in this contract, limitations on the Company help keep our jobs secure,"

Source: http://propilotnews.com/2009/06/back-to ... hwest.html

[Donald]

Maybe Southwest just wants Westjet to open up their books, and show them what their loads are like??

[bmc]

Maybe Southwest just wants Westjet to open up their books, and show them what their loads are like??

No need to open books for a code share deal beyond ensuring that the airline you are putting your code on has financial stability and will be able to pay you for seats sold. An operational, maintenance and safety audit are prerequisities.

Code sharing is a sexy thing to do, in markets where code drives sales. If travel agency sales are big, you want to ensure you have first screen availability and your services appear before anyone else. If you operate in a price sensitive market, price dictates the sale. In most north american markets, affinity programs (frequent flyer) are the leading drivers in carrier selection.

Putting a your carrier code on another airlines acft is often a sensitive issue with pilot unions.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Okay, I fired up the old school DMX CD when I read this in the online version of the Wall Street Journal:

Mr. Kelly said Southwest also is "seriously considering" flying some of its own 737-700s to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean. But that wouldn't happen before 2011 "at the earliest," he added.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125072932889044837.html

[rightseatwonder]

Republic airlines got frontier...

[invertedattitude]

Okay, I fired up the old school DMX CD when I read this in the online version of the Wall Street Journal:

Mr. Kelly said Southwest also is "seriously considering" flying some of its own 737-700s to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean. But that wouldn't happen before 2011 "at the earliest," he added.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125072932889044837.html

I'm assuming his greatest hit?

Stop, drop, shut 'em down open up shop
Oh, no
That's how Ruff Ryders roll

[DMX:]

Niggaz wanna try, niggaz wanna lie
Then niggaz wonder why, niggaz wanna die
All I know is pain
All I feel is rain
How can I maintain, with madd shit on my brain
I resort to violence, my niggaz move in silence
Like you don't know what are style is
New York niggaz the wildest
My niggaz is wit' it
You want it? come and get it
Took it then we split it
You fuckin' right we did it
What the @#$! you gonna do, when we run up on you
fuckin' wit' the wrong crew, don't know what we goin' thru
I'ma have ta show niggaz how easily we blow niggaz
When you find out there's somemore niggas, that's runnin with your niggaz
Nothin' we can't handle, break it up and dismantle, light it up like a candle
just cause I can't stand you
Put my shit on tapes, like you bussin' grapes
Think you holdin weight? Then you haven't met the Apes

[Chorus(2x)]

Is ya'll niggaz crazy?
I'll buss you and be swazy
Stop actin' like a baby, mind your business lady
Nosy people get it too, when you see me spit at you
you know I'm tryin' ta get rid of you
Ya I know it's pitiful
That's how niggaz get down
Watch why niggaz spit round
Make ya'll niggaz kiss ground, just for talkin' shit clown
Oh you think it's funny then you don't know me money
It's about to get ugly, @#$! it dog I'm hungry
I guess you know what that mean, come up off that green
Five niggaz or a fiend, don't make it a murder scene
Give a dog a bone, leave a dog alone
let a dog roam and he'll find his way home
Home of the brave, my home is a cage
and yo I'ma slave til' my home is a grave
I'ma pull paper, it's all about the papers
Bitches talkin' paper then how they wanna rape us

[Chorus(2x)]

Look what you dun started,
Asked for it, you got it
had it, should have shot it
Now your dearly departed
Get at me dog, did I rip shit with this one here I flip shit
Niggaz know when I kick shit
It's gonna be some slick shit
What was that look for, when I walked in the door
Oh you thought you was raw, boom not anymore
Cause now you on the floor, wishin you never saw me walk
through that door, with that 4 4
Now it's time for bed
Two more to the head, got the floor red
Yea that nigga's dead
Another unsolved mystery, It's goin' down in history
Niggaz ain't never did shit to me
Bitch ass niggaz can't get to me
Gots to make the move, got a point to prove
Got a make'em grove, got'em all like ooh
So to the next time, you hear this nigga ryhme
Try to keep your mind, on gettin pussy and crime

[Chorus(1x)]

[Brick Head]

That might have something to do with it.

Another could be that the initial agreement with SW and WS was supposed to begin late this year. Unfortunately our reservation system got delayed and won't be launching until Oct/Nov. Southwest also doesn't have a reservation system capable of handling what both airlines require. Better to delay the launch to let WS iron out the kinks and to let SW get a new reservation system itself. The launch of the Volaris & SW interline is apparently on sked for 2010 sometime.

CanadaEH,

Southwest will code share with Westjet if and when SWAPA agrees to allow it.

Southwest, like WJ, jealously protects the culture.

It is why the Frontier bid failed. SWAPA was not happy with the final offer from the Frontier pilots on integration.

Westjet is no different. It is what differentiates you from AC. How likely do you think it would be for WJ to do something that would drastically upset employees even if it meant a few bucks. They wouldn't. Why? Because your airline has it right. Take care of the employees and they will take care of you. Undo the culture? You become us.

Unless the SWAPA changes their mind one of two things will happen. Either no code share at all or SW does the trans boarder flying. I'm leaning with no code share all for two reasons. One, WJ has planes to deploy and the domestic market is finite. Two, WJ will keenly listen to the WJPA response to SW doing the trans boarder code share flying just as the reciprocal is taking place now at SW.

I see you guys going head to head when SW moves north.

[invertedattitude]

That might have something to do with it.

Another could be that the initial agreement with SW and WS was supposed to begin late this year. Unfortunately our reservation system got delayed and won't be launching until Oct/Nov. Southwest also doesn't have a reservation system capable of handling what both airlines require. Better to delay the launch to let WS iron out the kinks and to let SW get a new reservation system itself. The launch of the Volaris & SW interline is apparently on sked for 2010 sometime.

CanadaEH,

Southwest will code share with Westjet if and when SWAPA agrees to allow it.

Southwest, like WJ, jealously protects the culture.

It is why the Frontier bid failed. SWAPA was not happy with the final offer from the Frontier pilots on integration.

Westjet is no different. It is what differentiates you from AC. How likely do you think it would be for WJ to do something that would drastically upset employees even if it meant a few bucks. They wouldn't. Why? Because your airline has it right. Take care of the employees and they will take care of you. Undo the culture? You become us.

Unless the SWAPA changes their mind one of two things will happen. Either no code share at all or SW does the trans boarder flying. I'm leaning with no code share all for two reasons. One, WJ has planes to deploy and the domestic market is finite. Two, WJ will keenly listen to the WJPA response to SW doing the trans boarder code share flying just as the reciprocal is taking place now at SW.

I see you guys going head to head when SW moves north.

Even IF SW does all the trans-border flying, which I personally doubt considering their history, there still is a major plus to code-sharing.

WS guests would have a new and immense list of American destinations, which is going to further directly draw more pax from Air Canada.

WestJet trying to go head-head with Southwest would not be beneficial to either company, and IMO would not be nearly as successful as some of WestJet's head-head competitions with Air Canada, simply because of late Air Canada has a bit of a stigma around them so many people will gravitate to WestJet given the choice and the prices are comparable, the American portion of any Southwest flight is going to be dominated by Southwest simply because they have a good history with the American air traveller.

Bottom line is, unless Southwest pushes into markets already occupied by WestJet, or those announced, I can't see WestJet going head to head with them, IMO they would lose. A codeshare can only be good for the two companies. Now as far as the SWAPA, that's another story, but they hopefully will see a codeshare is going to increase domestic passenger loads and demands, by what factor who knows especially when compared with their existing market, the Canadian one is peanuts.

[tonysoprano]

Not sure you want to do business with these guys:
http://ct.email.atwonline.com/rd/cts?d= ... -0-1-2-166

[Four1oh]

Oh Tony, you're sooo cute when you're trying to stir the pot!

[bmc]

If Southwest pranged a machine that had a Westjet flight number, and the cause of accident is traced back to non-approved parts, one can expect the media to ask Westjet why they have a relationship with this airline. Safety, operation, maintenance audits are standard before code sharing.

[Widow]

... the American portion of any Southwest flight is going to be dominated by Southwest simply because they have a good history with the American air traveller.

I was gonna say "HUH???!?", then I noted tony had rightly pointed out:

Not sure you want to do business with these guys:
http://ct.email.atwonline.com/rd/cts?d= ... -0-1-2-166

In case you've forgotten about what Southwest was up to, this document presented by Richard Balnis of CUPE at the Aviation Safety Round Table back in April, might be a good reminder: http://safeskies.ca/files/safeskies/doc ... oblems.pdf

You might also want to note that it was one of their 737s that had to land when a "football sized hole" appeared in the fuselage ... viewtopic.php?f=54&t=56203

As tony said, are you sure you WANT to do business with these guys???

[invertedattitude]

... the American portion of any Southwest flight is going to be dominated by Southwest simply because they have a good history with the American air traveller.

I was gonna say "HUH???!?", then I noted tony had rightly pointed out:

Not sure you want to do business with these guys:
http://ct.email.atwonline.com/rd/cts?d= ... -0-1-2-166

In case you've forgotten about what Southwest was up to, this document presented by Richard Balnis of CUPE at the Aviation Safety Round Table back in April, might be a good reminder: http://safeskies.ca/files/safeskies/doc ... oblems.pdf

You might also want to note that it was one of their 737s that had to land when a "football sized hole" appeared in the fuselage ... viewtopic.php?f=54&t=56203

As tony said, are you sure you WANT to do business with these guys???

Widow, you can poke holes in any Airlines safety record if you want to, they ALL have mishaps.

Southwest Airlines
The world's safest airline is Southwest Airlines, which as of August 2009 has had 15.26 million flights without a single passenger fatality.
Other U.S Carriers
Three other North American airlines have never had a passenger fatality as of August 2009. They are American Trans Air (which ceased flying in 2008), Hawaiian Airlines and JetBlue Airlines.
Europe
Among the European airlines with at least 5 million flights, the safest is British Airways. For every 1 million passengers, the airline averages 0.17 fatalities. As of August 2009, It has also not had a death on a flight since 1985.
Asia
In Asia, All Nippon Airways not only has the most flights, but also the best safety record. The airline averages 0.22 fatalities per 1 million passengers and has not had a reported death since 1971.
History
Of the North American carriers, only two have had more than 10 fatal crashes in their history. As of August 2009, United Airlines has had 11 reported incidents and American Airlines has had 13.

[Widow]

From the International Civil Aviation Organization's 'Accident Prevention Manual' (1984): "Complacency or a false sense of security should not be allowed to develop as a result of long periods without an accident or serious incident. An organization with a good safety record is not necessarily a safe organization."

[Old fella]

"Widow, you can poke holes in any Airlines safety record if you want to, they ALL have mishaps."

Let the airline who never had any type of accident/incident cast the first stone!!

[tonysoprano]

[jjj]

Just skimmed through this thread and came to the following conclusion:

Donald is dumb as paint.

jjj

[Donald]

Care to expand there jjj? I take it you know what I am referring to...

Westjet, Canada's most honest airline.

[tailgunner]

Southwest hasn't killed any of their passengers yet, but they have killed at least one person on the ground due to their inability to stop on the remaining runway after landing. The accident at MDW killed a passenger in a car. That car was hit by a 737 that failed to stop on the pavement, went through a fence, and hit the car . .
Maybe, these two companies ARE made for each other after WJ's YOW overrun!!!

[YYCcrew]

You could almost say that SWA has had 2 fatal incidents, the second I am thinking of is Jonathon Burton. He was the yound man that had a reaction with his meds, pax thought he was trying to storm the cockpit, however in a sate of hysteria he was only trying to seek help. The cabin crew were sited as being unable to take control of the situation and failed to intervene when pax started to jump off of armrests onto his throat killing him...

It was proposed that procedural drift, and poor training on the cabin crew side contributed to this situation.

I have to say from personal experiance while flying on SWA a few times, that their cabin crew appear to have little respect for procedure or CRM (have seen them standing on landing, with no conern about being seated for landing, among other observations).

**Not trying to armchair quarter back, just some thoughts

[Rotten Apple #1]

Tailgunner, this is what you wrote earlier this year in another thread:

I am quite sure that I never called you a moron...It was you who started the mud slinging and questioned the composition of my brains. I guess instead of reacting in a civil way, you are more in tune with name calling. So be it.

Now, how civil are you being, throwing in the YOW thing? Surely you're above that.