Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

[29 ford]

Anyone remember when a 727 showed up in YHZ from MIA to fly Air Nova pax during the Air Nova pilot strike. Maybe some of these same pilots are now flying for Amerijet. Be careful who you call scab's.....

[Pratt X 3]

BTC CALLS FOR CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION OF AMERIJET INTERNATIONAL
August 31, 2009
The Flying Public At Significant Risk Each and Every Day

Business Travel Coalition (BTC) today called on the U.S. Congress and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to immediately investigate working conditions, maintenance practices and perverse contract incentives at Amerijet International that place schools, neighborhoods, the environment and the flying public at significant risk each and every day.

There are no toilets aboard the air cargo operator’s Boeing 727s. Female pilots are required to squat and defecate into bags. Male pilots likewise urinate into bags just outside the cockpit doors hanging them on hooks when finished. There is no food or water onboard and no sanitary facilities in which to wash up.

The Amerijet sick-leave policy, low $30,000 co-pilot salaries and 18-hour work days combine to create pilot-fatigue conditions, poor morale and dangerous crew resource management problems. Pilots who call out sick within 2-1/2 hours of their flight, and even up to 7 hours prior, are docked the equivalent of 2-days pay creating a condition that pressures pilots to fly even when sick or exhausted.

According to BTC sources at Amerijet, 3 to 4 times a month the company’s aircraft are forced to return to Miami International Airport because the same maintenance problems that are constantly written up do not get properly addressed. Typical of these returns was one on August 27, 2009 wherein an Amerijet plane lost cabin pressurization and was required to dump 23,000 pounds of fuel in the South Florida waters prior to landing.

“These working conditions are worse than the sweatshops of the 1930s. These Boeing 727s are operating in some of the most complex and congested airspace on the planet and operating on the busy taxi and cross-runways of Miami International Airport, among other airports, and often ferrying hazardous material,” said BTC chairman Kevin Mitchell. “The preventable circumstances that led to a fatigued pilot and sick co-pilot to command the ill-fated Colgan Air flight that crashed near Buffalo, NY in February should be a wake-up call not just for the regional airline model but for the all-cargo model as well. Congress should immediately investigate Amerijet’s pilot training, maintenance procedures, operational policies and working conditions.”

The 62 pilots and flight engineers at Amerijet International, Inc. went on strike on August 27, 2009 after 5 years of endeavoring to secure a contract that would jettison these toxic working conditions. The support from other unions, especially given how small Amerijet is, has been truly unprecedented. When it comes to safe skies, obviously these industry professionals are drawing a line in the sand.

The following organizations have lent their support to the Amerijet pilots and flight engineers. U.S. Airline Pilots - American (APA) - UPS (IPA) - Southwest (SWAPA) - US Airways & America West (USAPA) - IBT Local 1224 (ABX, Atlas, Polar & Kalitta) - IBT Local 747 (Gulfstream International, Arrow, ATI, Horizon) - IBT Local 769 (Centurion Air Cargo, Continental Express, Vista, UPS Ground, Waste Management) - Freight Drivers from UPS, Yellow & ABF - Transport Workers Union Miami – PATCO- Broward County AFLCIO.

Congress and FAA need to address this outrageous and unsafe situation before a tragedy occurs.

http://www.teamster.org/content/btc-cal ... ernational

[airpatches]

CargoJet is in rough shape itself and turning work away could be catastrophic to this Canadian company

Really? Cargojet is in trouble? Cargojet is fine,actually better than ever. Turning away this work would not be a catastrophe, but seeing as there is a way to make even more money, why would they say no? What has the Teamsters ever done for a Canadian Airline? Union shops are a joke, just ask DHL. All you proud "brothers" and "sisters" should have been nicer to people in school, then you wouldn't have to buy yourselves some comraderie, and mask it as a brotherhood. Losers.
For the brave man that has taken down the names of Cargojet pilots, grow up! What are you going to do with those names sir? Nothing, that is what! More of you should strike, so we can pick up the pieces, and I can send my kids to private school, essentially at your cost. I guess Amerijet isn't into Obama's "Buy American" plan.

[The Clipper]

Pratt X 3

Do you have anything to say or do you just forward press clippings?

Do you have an opinion or do you wait for us to give you one!

Good grief!!!!

[Pratt X 3]

Easy there, Charlie Brown. Just passing along information that pertains to the topic.

[ScudRunner]

Pratt X 3

Do you have anything to say or do you just forward press clippings?

Do you have an opinion or do you wait for us to give you one!

Good grief!!!!

Slow down their 3 post Clipper your sailing in unfamiliar waters.

[TAWS]

They're scabs...bottom line...by definition...despite the circumstances they're under, it's the way it is.

I feel for the situation that the Cargojet pilots were put in, but I also feel for the company trying to do what's right.

Most people have been qouted on here in numerous threads saying..."you always have a choice"

No different here...

[Troubleshot]

They're scabs...bottom line...by definition...despite the circumstances they're under, it's the way it is.

I feel for the situation that the Cargojet pilots were put in, but I also feel for the company trying to do what's right.

Most people have been qouted on here in numerous threads saying..."you always have a choice"

No different here...

So TAWS please list the options these pilots have, I only see two...fly, be scabs and feed their families....not fly, be fired, hit the EI line. hmmmmmmm, let me think.... what would I do?

[TAWS]

They can do whatever they want...It comes down to principles, convictions, morals, paying the mortgage, feeding the kids ....It's whatever is most important to you at the time I guess.

I am not taking sides...If I was working for Cargojet, I wouldn't be able to sit here and tell you what I would do.

My previous post was what it was....I feel for both sides...

But no one is forced to do anything in this day and age

[FLYN FR8]

They're scabs...bottom line...by definition...despite the circumstances they're under, it's the way it is.

I feel for the situation that the Cargojet pilots were put in, but I also feel for the company trying to do what's right.

Most people have been qouted on here in numerous threads saying..."you always have a choice"

No different here...

So TAWS please list the options these pilots have, I only see two...fly, be scabs and feed their families....not fly, be fired, hit the EI line. hmmmmmmm, let me think.... what would I do?

If all the CargoJet pilots had come together they would not be in this situation. If they had refused to help create an international labor dispute they would not be in this situation. Instead they are all individuals. It isn't fair to label all CargoJet pilots as scabs, however those that are, know who they are. Enjoy being on the list for the rest of your careers. Aviation is a small world, especially these days with the internet.

[Widow]

You realize that here in Canada the stage has been set for the court-ordered release of IP information in consideration of libel?

Making threats on an internet forum is not a good idea.

[TAWS]

Enjoy being on the list for the rest of your careers. Aviation is a small world, especially these days with the internet.

Easy there cowboy! Times are tough....emotions are high....

However, threats are not the way...

It's important to try to understand that it can not be easy for the guys at Cargojet.

Like I said earlier, I wouldn't personally be able to say that it wouldn't be me someday.

Lets try to have a productive discussion

[Spit-IX]

I think the target should be the management of Cargojet for accepting to take the Amerijet work but the pilots should have stood up together and approached management over this issue to let their feelings be known they they don't want to cross the picket lines.

Cargojet wouldn't fire all the pilots who refused to fly because they would then have to hire and train new employees which would limit the amount they could support their non scab work.

[Donald]

Reminds me of when this recession was peaking and some companies were "laying off" pilots (in this case it was a thinly disguised cleaning of the house).

Imagine you work at a relatively decent non-union job, and you see random co-workers getting the boot, in the name of recessionary cost-cutting. Do you make noise about it? Or do you worry about your own skin?

I can't say that I support the actions of Cargojet, as a company. But I defintely feel for the pilots being sent in to do the dirty work, hopefully they do not get (wrongfully)targetted for revenge. Short of calling in sick, I'm not sure what options they have.

[Thunder1]

"Anyone remember when a 727 showed up in YHZ from MIA to fly Air Nova pax during the Air Nova pilot strike. Maybe some of these same pilots are now flying for Amerijet. Be careful who you call scab's....."


WOW! Yeah, I remember that, I was one of those 727 guys. What a horrific situation to be thrust into. I was in my early 20's, first airline job, hired as a FE. Only a month or two on the job. So broke I didn't have a place to live or a car. I got the call for a charter out of Newark to YHZ so I went not knowing anything about anything. When we landed in YHZ and walked into the terminal I thought me and the crew were about to fight with a group of other pilots (AIR Nova), I was baffled. We got into the van and went to the hotel. When we got there we had guards on the hotel floor we were staying in. I thought what the hell is this. The Air Nova guys were calling us scabs. Now, I grew up around a few old salts one from Delta another from Eastern. I called them collect from my room in the middle of the night for advice on what to do. If the Delta guy told me to come home I was leaving in the morning. He called some Delta union guys and called me back. He said finish up the trip and try to avoid any others. A week or two later that charter airline was shut down by the feds. Next stop AMERIJET. Six years at AJT pissing in bags.(no longer there)
What I took away from that deal was everyone determines what a scab is in their OWN mind in this business. What I wanted the AIR NOVA guys to know at the time was that I wasn't there to take their job. I was only there temporarily to make sure their company at least stayed in business. Honored tickets sold to passengers previously, made sure the company still had a presence. I thought the worst thing that could happen is people stop buying tickets on Air Nova because the flying public thinks there not flying. After all paying more money to an outside company to get the same job done isn't productive. The company being struck against should want this to end rapidly, hence going back to the negotiating table. The last thing you should wish for is your own company to fold due to your strike. I think a scab is someone who crosses a picket line at their company and goes back to work. Even worse a person who takes a job at a striking airline, crossing the picket line having not previously worked there.

[flying4dollars]

They're scabs...bottom line...by definition...despite the circumstances they're under, it's the way it is.

I feel for the situation that the Cargojet pilots were put in, but I also feel for the company trying to do what's right.

Most people have been qouted on here in numerous threads saying..."you always have a choice"

No different here...

So TAWS please list the options these pilots have, I only see two...fly, be scabs and feed their families....not fly, be fired, hit the EI line. hmmmmmmm, let me think.... what would I do?

If all the CargoJet pilots had come together they would not be in this situation. If they had refused to help create an international labor dispute they would not be in this situation. Instead they are all individuals. It isn't fair to label all CargoJet pilots as scabs, however those that are, know who they are. Enjoy being on the list for the rest of your careers. Aviation is a small world, especially these days with the internet.

Unless you personally know these CJ pilots, know their situation and know what exactly is going through their minds during this whole event, you have NO right to judge them the way you are. Threatening them by taking names, pics and "listing them" is surely the mature and classy way to approach it. Two wrongs don't make a right. Karma will bite you in the ass if you're not careful.

[R1830]

For all those who are calling the Cargojet pilots scabs, do you check to see who is on strike before you answer the phone when you are on reserve. Much like in Thunder1's situation the guys were just going to work to do a charter. They didn't know who or what it was for. THe first indication they had that there was going to be anything different about it was when they arrived down south. They can't very well turn around and go home then.

We all go to work, try to pay the bills and do the best job we can. Calling a couple of guys scabs becuase they ended up in a bad situation shows only ignorance. Any one of us could end up in this situation any time we show up for a charter or any strange unsched flying. I hope for the guys calling those pilots scabs that one day when you find yourself on the other end of it you think back to your ignorant prickish little post here and realize exactly what you are getting the bad Karma from.

[chancellor]

I have two questions;

1. Who the hell would ever put up with pissing and crapping in bags?
and if this has been going on for a while,
2. Why would you still work there?

Sounds like you may have partially created this problem yourselves.

[777 Expat]

FLYN FR8,

Coming to a public forum disguised behind a computer sending meaningless threats and name calling does nothing but reduce your credibility and increase the lack of sympathy others will show towards your cause.

As for Cargojet, nobody here knows the real story. It is possible Amerijet did not specify there was a labour dispute when contacting Cargojet regarding the subcharter. I also highly doubt the pilots realized until they arrived in Miami that there was an ongoing strike. Perhaps, the pilots should have refused the flight, however at the end of the day how many of us placed in the same position would have had the balls to do it. Say what you want, but if roles were reversed I suspect you would have done the flight.

Instead of bashing a few Canadian pilots, perhaps you should be asking yourself why many of your own pilots continue to cross the line. If you ask me it does not sound like a so called "united brotherhood" working towards the common goal. I wonder, do you send the same threatening messages to you own pilots who have crossed the line? Probably not, I suppose threatening your own pilots probably would not go over so well

[North Shore]

Enjoy being on the list for the rest of your careers. Aviation is a small world, especially these days with the internet.

I'm sure that Canadian pilots are quaking in their boots about being on an American blacklist of some sort

[Thunder1]

Good questions. The piss bag thing was just a given. We had no females there nor had they ever up to that point. Never crapped in the bag so I can't answer that. I did leave. The flying was a great challenge and great for building your skills. However it was more of a working mans job than an airline job. You fly the 727 to all your stops and hit some on the way home. Similar to driving a UPS truck. The crews even show up with lunch boxes.

Hey not to be stupid but where in the hell is Saskaberia.

[Spit-IX]

For all those who are calling the Cargojet pilots scabs, do you check to see who is on strike before you answer the phone when you are on reserve.

This where management is at fault for taking the work knowing full well the shit storm it would create and knowing it would all fall on the backs of the pilots. Cargojet and it's management make the money and pat themselves on the back while the pilots get chastised and ridiculed. Maybe the CJ pilots should be looking at a union themselves!

[teacher]

Cargojet is 100%to blame and not the pilots, the BIG question will be if this continues. Now that all the CJ crews are aware of the situation and CJ management knows what kind of controversy this is causing will they stop these trips?

[frequentflyer]

For all those who are calling the Cargojet pilots scabs, do you check to see who is on strike before you answer the phone when you are on reserve. Much like in Thunder1's situation the guys were just going to work to do a charter. They didn't know who or what it was for. THe first indication they had that there was going to be anything different about it was when they arrived down south. They can't very well turn around and go home then.

We all go to work, try to pay the bills and do the best job we can. Calling a couple of guys scabs becuase they ended up in a bad situation shows only ignorance. Any one of us could end up in this situation any time we show up for a charter or any strange unsched flying. I hope for the guys calling those pilots scabs that one day when you find yourself on the other end of it you think back to your ignorant prickish little post here and realize exactly what you are getting the bad Karma from.

Yes, yes!! finally somebody is saying stuff that makes sense unlike the other useless crap that other "experts" are posting...good job R1830

FLYN FR8,

Coming to a public forum disguised behind a computer sending meaningless threats and name calling does nothing but reduce your credibility and increase the lack of sympathy others will show towards your cause.

As for Cargojet, nobody here knows the real story. It is possible Amerijet did not specify there was a labour dispute when contacting Cargojet regarding the subcharter. I also highly doubt the pilots realized until they arrived in Miami that there was an ongoing strike. Perhaps, the pilots should have refused the flight, however at the end of the day how many of us placed in the same position would have had the balls to do it. Say what you want, but if roles were reversed I suspect you would have done the flight.

Instead of bashing a few Canadian pilots, perhaps you should be asking yourself why many of your own pilots continue to cross the line. If you ask me it does not sound like a so called "united brotherhood" working towards the common goal. I wonder, do you send the same threatening messages to you own pilots who have crossed the line? Probably not, I suppose threatening your own pilots probably would not go over so well

Good one too!!

[737Capt]

Some years ago I was a 727 pilot for a non-union airline. If memory serves me correctly there was a Canadian 727 carrier that went on strike. When that airline approached our company to go fly their routes our entire pilot group stood up for whats right and told management "no way in hell are we going to cross a picket line!" Well guess what!? Management was pissed and they threatened us but no one got fired and we went out and found other business. Your excuses only serve yourselves. Anyone to knowingly fly struck freight is a sad pathetic excuse for a man(woman) and not someone I will ever share a cockpit with guaranteed!