Why shouldn't I do a MIFR or ratings before CPL????

[DanWEC]

I have 110 hours, night and float endorsement. Airline is my career goal.

Can someone please tell me why the heck I SHOULDN'T get a MIFR rating right now while I still have 90 hours to go before CPL eligibility???
My night rating instructor (who doesn't have MIFR) told me it would be a waste of money, using the logic that it requires a check ride every 2 years, and that I would waste one check ride before I would probably be working/using it. (would just be instructing first during that period) That's about 500 bucks. He says do it after my CPL, while instructing. I'm confounded by the logic however.

I already have 20 hours PIC XC. In another 30 hours I can do the MIFR (35 hours), which will still leave me 30 hours in which to do the CPL tests and be spat out with 200 hours TT, Ready to do the CFI.
I need time building towards the 200 hour mark anyways. Why not use it to gain a rating?? Looks to me that 500 bucks for a checkride is one holy hell of a lot less than adding a redundant 35 hours of flying time. Granted the 35 hours spent in a multi rating (15 of that sim....unless I can avoid it. Sim hours are redundant while time building as well)
will be a little more than renting a 150... but the cavernous difference remains......
Hell, if I have 15 hours left I'm getting an acrobatic rating. I want to use every hour of mandatory flight time for a purpose other than a log book entry.

Thoughts?

[Big Pistons Forever]

DanWEC

An opinion...


My personal experience has been low time pilots tend to find the Multi IFR a real challenge as their general aircraft handling skills and air sense is still developing. The result is they require a lot more than the minimum flight training time to get to the required level of proficency. Since twin time cost 5 dollars a minute extra training can get very expensive. The other thing I have noticed with pilots who do the extra ratings before the commercial is they end up with very little solo time and get used to having an instructor telling them what to. This often results in weak pilot decision making skills. My personal opinion is you should be a good VFR pilot before starting IFR training. I tell anyone who asks me for advice to use the build up time between private and commercial to get as much practical solo cross country experience as you can. One way is to do a series of 3 to 4 day (500 to 700 nm radius) cross country trips. One East and another one West in Canada from your home airport. One North up to at or above 60 deg North and one South into the USA. You will get a ton of practical real world experience dealing with weather, strange airports, different topography etc.

I started as an instructor and waited untill I had about 300 hrs of instructing under my belt before I started the MEIFR training. Since I was flying everyday and had some solid flying experience my aircraft handling skills were allready pretty good and I was able to be ready for my ride with only 11 hrs of dual in the airplane. The other advantage of delaying the training is by the time I started I was senior enough that I was eligable to be PPC'd on the charter machine and therefore got to use my rating right away. I am not saying you are wrong to do the Multi IFR before the CPL as many pilots have successfully gone that route, but in my case delaying the training worked out better

[Hedley]

It depends on the person. Yes, VFR PIC long x/c
is great for developing experience that you will
need for real-world IFR (not just the rating).

But I wouldn't discourage anyone from getting
the SIFR or MIFR before their commercial, if
they are looking for a challenge.

[visual approach]

Ready to do the CFI

whatever gets you the job

Sorry, I couldn't resist. But honestly, I agree with BPF, get some experience first, then tackle the MIFR especially if you go the instructing route. If you are working for a flight school there is a good chance that you will get a discounted rate on the aircraft as well for your Multi/IFR training.

[AeroDiaz]

I would say go for it!

I started my SE-IFR training when I had around 90 hrs TT in my logbook. I always tried to use my hours on something useful and not only doing touch ´n goes. Maybe some flight schools will try to change your plan (Cash, cash, cash)... that´ll be the sign for YOU to look for a new school.

Of course it will be challenging just like Hedley said, but it will improve your flying skills a lot more than anything else.

Just keep the blue side up buddy!

Díaz

[gaamin]

Edit

[iflyforpie]

It depends on the person. Yes, VFR PIC long x/c
is great for developing experience that you will
need for real-world IFR (not just the rating).

But I wouldn't discourage anyone from getting
the SIFR or MIFR before their commercial, if
they are looking for a challenge.

You need 50 PIC x-country for the IFR rating anyways.

I started mine at about 100TT with a PPL and a float rating. Managed to squeeze it in under 200TT with some heavy double dipping on the x/c (ie, did most of my night x/c, landed at every airport in between my destinations to keep landing practice up).

It is intense and not for everyone, but if you feel you are up to it, go for it! I figure it saved me about 7 large instead of doing it after.

[costermonger]

...That's about 500 bucks.

If you're gonna let your Group 1 sit on the shelf for 2 years while you instruct, you should probably expect to spend a lot more than that renewing it. That might cover the cost of the flight test if you found a cheap examiner, a decent deal on a twin and traffic is on your side.

Certainly not a reason not to do your IFR before 200 hours (I did it before the CPL), but you should know what you're up against.

[North Shore]

My experience was that I did my MIFR after I had my CPL and instructor rating. I didn't use it and it expired. In the interim, I did a bunch of instructing, and a season on a 185. When it came time to renew again, the extra flying experience was invaluable, as I found that the aeroplane handling was so much easier...If you are going to go the instructing route, I'd wait until you've got a year in before going onto the MIFR.

Whatever you choose, good luck!

[Tim]

i think you should go for it! IF the type of job you're looking for pops up and you're in the right place at the right time, you aren't going to get it without an IFR.

you're gonna have to spend way more to get a CPL and THEN do a M/IFR than you would if you counted the M/IFR hours towards the CPL and then renew when the time comes.

[kevinsky18]

I'd say go for it, do it now. IF you're up for the challenge and willing to really focus you can save a bit in the long run.

I also like the suggestion to just get your Multi and skip the IFR as your Multi is with you for life.

I really like the suggestions to get 50 hours of float time but of course I'm bias on that regard and I appreciate your not thinking bush you’re thinking airlines.

My personal experience is that I did my CPL and then my Multi IFR then my instructor rating. Then after that my seaplane rating. Well my IFR expired and I never need it again. But I still to this day have the experience I gained and I’ve had occasions when I’ve had to do some emergency IFR flying. Just last month comes to mind when I had an alternator failure while VFR on top and had to get down quick before I lost all electrical. The soup was thick and low that day but I was confident enough to fly an approach and get the plane down.

It’s you’re call. All options have their pluses and minuses.

Personally if I’m looking at a resume even for a day VFR position I still want to see an IFR rating even if it's expired. More education and experience, even if it’s expired, will make you a better CPL and a better Instructor.

My 2 cents. Feel free to throw it in the change cup for the next guy.

[altiplano]

-

[AEROBAT]

I did my multi IFR before my commercial. It made the commercial course seem easy, especialy the weather portion in commercial ground school.

[visual approach]

I’ve had occasions when I’ve had to do some emergency IFR flying

hmmm, wasn't there a thread not too long ago about VFR flight into unplanned IMC conditions? Oh wait, here it is!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57614

Apparently not a good idea.

[AUGER9]

Do it right at the end of your training. Get the CPL flight test and most of your time building done and then at 170 hours or whatever do the MIFR. Doing after you finish your CPL will just end up with you spending more $ on plane rentals to build your 200 hours.

I like this idea. Maybe let your skills decide for you. Tell yourself that if you can have your CPL flight test done by 170 hours, then you'll use the last 30 for your MIFR

[DanWEC]

Thanks for the replies guys- definitely some solid info and opinions. All are valued.
I will continue my plan to do my MIFR in another 20 hours after building the XC PIC time. I believe I can handle it. I'll begin studying now for it.
I receieved all my ratings at the minimum hours... soloed at 11 and PPL at 50. I think I'm up for it, but I greatly appreciate the impression that those that have been there can relay that it IS a challenge. That changes my perspective a bit, I wouldn't have wanted to be surprised by the difficulty of it and I think was underestimating it. This in itself has already helped me.


Thanks again everyone... valuable info!

[kevinsky18]

I’ve had occasions when I’ve had to do some emergency IFR flying

hmmm, wasn't there a thread not too long ago about VFR flight into unplanned IMC conditions? Oh wait, here it is!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57614

Apparently not a good idea.

Perhaps you young caps aren’t aware of what an emergency is or what a pop up IFR is.

So what your suggesting is that it would have been safer to continue to fly to my original destination 3 hours on top with no radios, no avionics, no way of determining if I was drifting off course, no way to check that the weather at my destination was still clear, heck no way to check the weather on route. Instead of requesting a pop up and doing an emergency decent through the clouds and an approach in IMC before I lost all power.

Oh I didn't say all that in my original post. Well if you have had a IFR rating or at least a decent instructor for your VFR on Top you would know that's a safe and viable option and I wouldn't have to spoon feed it to you on these forums. I guess that's another reason for getting your IFR even if you don't plan to use it so you can communicate with your peers on these subjects.

I’ve been posting less and less on these forums and I've just been reminded why.

[AEROBAT]

I’ve had occasions when I’ve had to do some emergency IFR flying

hmmm, wasn't there a thread not too long ago about VFR flight into unplanned IMC conditions? Oh wait, here it is!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57614

Apparently not a good idea.

You can't fly VFR over the top unless you have the equipment to fly in IMC so how can you imply that he was doing something unsafe?

[Tim]

kevinsky18 instead of just quoting the link to the IFR thread, why not just post there instead of hijiacking this one

[kevinsky18]

And yet another example.