CanJet Making Its Mark

[Spit-IX]

As lousy as the wages are for F/O's, especially first year, in the 705 airline world the Captain pay for Airbus and Boeing drivers is at least respectable in Canada with the exception of Canjet. Air Canada, Westjet, and other Boeing operators pay well over 100K for Captains. Canjet is not even close and they would probably drive the wages lower if they could. Last I heard Canjet required at NG type rating to get hired. If they don't then I guess they just don't hire guys without one.

We have no one other than the low cost carriers, cough, Westjet, JetsGo, for bringing down the wages but it's sad that other operators want to continue to bring them down further. This was a respectable profession that paid all pilots well. Too bad those days are gone.

[Throttle]

Just so the record is clear here,

The CanJet Capt scale is $85 to $140. Even the most junior capt with some overtime can break $100. Then there is the other stuff; stats, pension, free uniforms, dry cleaning, per diems, passport fees, medical fees and all the other usual benefits, including insurance, health benefits, and dental I might add, etc, etc.

So, someone close to top scale with overtime plus benefits can gross $160 plus when you factor in the benefits.

Overall when you add it all up, their in the zone.
T

[Spit-IX]

Just so the record is clear here,

The CanJet Capt scale is $85 to $140....

You think that $85K first year is showing respect to a 737 Captain? If you do then count yourself as a part of the problem.

A Canjet Captain will max out at close to the same level of pay as a year 2 Captain here and here is not one of the 2 major airlines in Canada. Please give your head a shake and if you can, shake the crap out of your management team because you sir are being screwed! And, by accepting being screwed you are in turn are screwing your brothers and sisters in this profession.

[Throttle]

I see.

Well, with all due respect to you and all my "brothers and sisters", whose voices were silent every time I lost my job in this industry (5 times), often due the predatory practices of the companies they worked for..................rubbish.

What I have now is good, 150G's plus benefits and NG......provides a good standard of living in Nova Scotia combined with state of the art airplane, high standard flight operation and the best training department I have been exposed too........and if this cost level keeps my employer interested enough to keep this going, well, and again, with respect to my "brothers and sisters" who, lets face it,... really dont give a shit.....................................I am OK with it.... all the way to the bank.

Where were all of you every time I, and my collegues, and our families suffered when our Company was forced out of business.

I am quite pleased with what I have now. I just want it to last.

Save your vitriol for the scandilous conditions of entry level benefits at Air Canada, Jazz or WestJet or the predatory behaviour they have exibited.

My employer, and my collegues, have endured the closure of Air Atlantic, Canjet 1 and CanJet 2. Their tenacity, which is unprecidented because anyone else would have given up, is unparalled

If this cost structure gives the company(CanJet 3)the confidence to maintain a business which allows me and my family, my collegues and their families to enjoy some measure of stability at this this income level, well, I am OK with it.

.....and BTW, we are hiring, yes creating jobs......don't think anyone else is hiring right now.



So there you have it.

T

[Four1oh]

Just so the record is clear here,

The CanJet Capt scale is $85 to $140....

You think that $85K first year is showing respect to a 737 Captain? If you do then count yourself as a part of the problem.

A Canjet Captain will max out at close to the same level of pay as a year 2 Captain here and here is not one of the 2 major airlines in Canada. Please give your head a shake and if you can, shake the crap out of your management team because you sir are being screwed! And, by accepting being screwed you are in turn are screwing your brothers and sisters in this profession.

I'm not positive, but I think he meant the hourly rate...

[equinox99]

.....and BTW, we are hiring, yes creating jobs!!!!......don't think anyone else is hiring right now.

Who is it exactly you are hiring ? I know of a couple of people who applied but never heard back ...

I hear that all the time "Canjet is hiring" , but never hear of someone getting hired there.

When are the groundschools ? Where do you train ? How many per groundscools ? For what base ?

[complexintentions]

And quoting a senior captain's wage is a bit of a farce. I can assure you the FO's aren't enjoying quite the same "standard of living in Nova Scotia" mentioned. Besides aren't most basings in YYZ and YUL?

But hey, "I'm all right Jack" is the Canadian aviation mantra. So Throttle, now that you make "150G's" I guess it's your turn to not give a shit?

Talk about a victim mentality. I've been laid off multiple times but I hardly blame my "brothers". What did you expect them to do, hand their paycheques over to you? Besides, isn't CanJet growing by undercutting the cost structures of their competitors? Who's the predator?

As far as CanJet 2 being "forced out of business", you might want to ask your owner Kenny Rowe why that happened. Hardly "forced", it was simple union-busting, Atlantic Canada old-school style. But hey don't let history fog up the rose-tinted glasses!

[Throttle]

From what I hear, a number from Zoom, Sunwing, Air Canada, Jazz, Skyservice, and previously Provincial, PEI Air et al

I believe initials do GS in YHZ, sim in MIA. Mostly for YUL and YYZ bases.

Don't have other specifics about numbers and I don't know why your friends havent heard.

T

[Throttle]

in response to CI's


Victim mentality?........the intimation there is some sort of industry pilot solidarity and that I am screwing my "brothers and sisters" is what generates my response...................................So what would they have me do........not work? Its the same argument you suggest. I expect nothing from anyone..............but don't tell me I am screwing someone by working......who is behaving like a victim here?

My point is rather than crow as victims, we all kept plugging away and managed to keep a career going.

150G's.....with the overtime I mentioned.....yup..........and it took a lifetime to get here. FO's.....I was one for years and worked my way up..........however their starting packages are better than the companies I have mentioned. Agree the overall package for that group can grow .........something for ALPA to address next time perhaps.

However, I do agree my comment about living in NS may not necessarily reflect YUL, YYZ OR YVR conditions.

I have no direct information as to how CanJet determines cost benefit as related to revenue generation. My guess is CanJet simply operates in a manner that its sustainable costs permits. In other words, it is its lean cost model that enables it to compete. My understanding of predatory is when you accept losses to put others out of business.

With regard to your last comment...........rubbish.......no unions were busted and ALPA remains............it was less than full airplanes and no yield.....meaning depressed ticket prices that wouldnt cover the bills, stiff competition and rising oil costs, among other things as I understand it.

As for the tinted glasses........we all wear them.....its just a question of tint level that sets us apart.



T

[Charley]

.....and BTW, we are hiring, yes creating jobs!!!!......don't think anyone else is hiring right now.

Who is it exactly you are hiring ? I know of a couple of people who applied but never heard back ...

I hear that all the time "Canjet is hiring" , but never hear of someone getting hired there.

When are the groundschools ? Where do you train ? How many per groundscools ? For what base ?

We have hired 65 full-time permanent pilots (both F/O's and Direct Entry Captain's) in classes of 4-6 every month since June 2008 for positions in YHZ, YVR, YYZ and YUL. But recently the candidates are all domiciled in YUL and YYZ. In addition to the pilots hired from the companies mentioned by "Throttle", we have also hired pilots who were laid off, or going to be laid off, from CargoJet and Air Transat.

So I don't know who you're talking to equinox99, but it's obviously not the right people!

[complexintentions]

Throttle,

I took my rose tints off completely and left the industry, so my interest in the scene is minimal, and probably why 150G's for the position seems a bit weak. But sometimes the distortion of the truth is a little amusing...CJ2 shut down as a direct result of a good ol' Irish kneecapping-type union bust attempt. If you choose to believe otherwise then so be it. Guess it was just flukey timing? It could be argued that it failed since ALPA is on the premises, in name, but come on...those ain't ALPA wages and that's just fact, not opinion. At least you admit it takes overtime to achieve the figures you toss about. Sorry, but the standards only continue to get lower. I do agree with the philosophy that people would be happier if they could learn to be content with what they have. But on the industry whole, the wages are pretty dismal, and only partially camouflaged by the fact that the Maritimes are cheap to live in compared to YYZ and YVR.

Glad you're happy, glad you can enjoy your sense of entitlement, but the sense of satisfaction with your lot there is strictly a matter of perspective and certainly not shared by everyone.

I have to admit I am curious to know where CanJet found 65 NG-rated pilots in Canada? I'm pretty sure they're not leaving Westjet. Sunwing? hmmm....

This is my last comment on the topic, I have nothing against the good folk at CJ, just against revisionist history. cheers man!

[Donald]

Bit of a sidetrack, but aside from the initial housing cost, are the maritimes truly "cheap" to live in?

Groceries, utilities, gas for the car, hst/gst, annual car inspections, driver's license cost, etc, etc, etc??????

[Charley]

I have to admit I am curious to know where CanJet found 65 NG-rated pilots in Canada? I'm pretty sure they're not leaving Westjet. Sunwing? hmmm....

I never said they were NG rated pilots...hard to believe that CanJet spent all that time and money training 65 pilots isn't? (Insert sarcasm here).

And personally I don't think it's actually cheaper to live in the Maritimes, rather Maritimers are in fact more likely to just be happy and appreciative for what they have...including a job!

[Spit-IX]

I'm not positive, but I think he meant the hourly rate...

Nope, it's $85,000 for a first year NG Captain at Canjet maxing out at $140K.

[Donald]

How many years at Canjet till a captain breaks the $125K mark? How long till $140K?

[Spit-IX]

According to here: http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... anjet.html it's a 10 year scale.

It will take 7 years in the left seat at CJ to make what year 1 makes at other Boeing operators.

[Dim]

What are year one salarys at WJ and Sunwing? How many years for the left seat at WJ and Sunwing?

[Legacy]

\

Save your vitriol for the scandilous conditions of entry level benefits at Air Canada, Jazz or WestJet or the predatory behaviour they have exibited.

You keep referring to your 150G wages with overtime. Why? What you are basically saying is "If a person wants to sacrifice their personal life and do nothing but work you can make 150Gs". What do you make without OT? Any job you can make a decent T4 with OT. We have had capt's make 250-300K here with OT. I like your entry level benefits outlook as you stated and I quoted. Sorry but after a measly 2 years at WJ our FO's make what your captains make on year 1 WITHOUT overtime. I don't mind you defending your company but please don't smash other companies so you can try and feel better about the decision you make on where you work.

[Legacy]

What are year one salarys at WJ and Sunwing? How many years for the left seat at WJ and Sunwing?

Dim:
I believe our fo's now started at 49K first year and capt's are about 119K

[FICU]

Sorry but after a measly 2 years at WJ our FO's make what your captains make on year 1 WITHOUT overtime.

Interesting... in another thread a WJ pilot said that a year 5 F/O at WJ would make 81K base with no OT which is still less than the insultingly meager CJ year 1 Captain salary... so who's telling the truth?

Our year 1 Boeing F/Os don't make enough as they should but they do get a 12K raise for year 2. We hope to change this ASAP. Our year 1 captains make 130K base. This isn't an hourly wage it's a monthly salary so it doesn't matter how many hours you fly, 30 or 80 in a month you get paid the same and perdiems make up the difference.

As you can see CJ at 85K for year 1 captain is well below standard and CJ management should be ashamed of themselves for paying their captains what they do.

[Dim]

Is that Sunwing wages?

[FICU]

Is that Sunwing wages?

No, a northern Boeing operator.

[Donald]

Do Canjet pilots get medical/dental benefits?

[invertedattitude]

I'll say this about the wages and cost of living:

I make IFR ATC pay, and because of location make a few thousand less than a YYZ IFR controller, but it is minimal.

On the WORST day I am a 15 minute drive to work, usually under 10 minutes.

I own a 2200 Sq foot home, which is now 13 months old, and I got it for under 180K.

A friend of mine, lives almost 45 minutes on a good day from YYZ, and his house is 40+ years old if I remember, and he paid well over 300K.

I don't care how much a bag of milk is in Toronto, that just doesn't add up.

[KAG]

Sorry but after a measly 2 years at WJ our FO's make what your captains make on year 1 WITHOUT overtime.

Interesting... in another thread a WJ pilot said that a year 5 F/O at WJ would make 81K base with no OT which is still less than the insultingly meager CJ year 1 Captain salary... so who's telling the truth?

Our year 1 Boeing F/Os don't make enough as they should but they do get a 12K raise for year 2. We hope to change this ASAP. Our year 1 captains make 130K base. This isn't an hourly wage it's a monthly salary so it doesn't matter how many hours you fly, 30 or 80 in a month you get paid the same and perdiems make up the difference.

As you can see CJ at 85K for year 1 captain is well below standard and CJ management should be ashamed of themselves for paying their captains what they do.

I think that was me, but if you take into account our entire compensation, then a second year (definately a third) would exceed that 85K.

Agreed 85K is laughable for a 737 Captain, but it's supply and demand. The east is full of pilots who don't want to leave.
To each their own.
The wages may be lower, but if thier happy, good on em. There is alot to be said for the laid back east coast lifestyle.