How Low Will You Go-Part 2

[bmc]

I should rephrased the question. What will be, at time of departure, the average yield of each flight? Sure they're showing availability, but that does not mean that two days out from departure, the flights will be showing $75 availability.

A revenue management consultant that I know spent some time at Easyjet's office at Luton airport. Big open office concept place. One of revenue management controlers was watching a soccer match, live, on TV. He walks around, see's everybody working except for this guy. Nobody is bothered by it. The game was some season play off thing.

The game ended, at which point it was decided where the next playoff game would be held. He then took his feet off his desk, went into their revenue management system and started zeroing out the lower buckets of cheap fares.

The point I make is that WJ know the demand for those flights is low this far out. No harm in offering them even for $1. As the bookings come in, they adjust availability accordingly. If the demand isn't there, they'll take what they can get. As a known LCC, it's important that the traveling public is consistently aware that they have low fares.

Check those same flights for prices two weeks out, then one week out, then the day before. I doubt it will all be at $75.

Revenue management is part science, part art, part throw of the dice. A full airplane means you priced it too low. It's not hard to fill an airplane. Empty seats mean you either priced it too high and the demand never materialized, or your didn't manage your pricingin the days.weeks leading up to departure. Your evaluation is always in hindsight.

Pay no attention to the advertised price. It's meaningless. It's smply a call to action to consumers. How many seats get sold at those levels, what the fare mix is, what the load factor is are more meaningful. It's no different than advertising a used 172 for $60,000. The important information is if you sold it and if you got your asking price.

[Realitychex]

I guess it is pure coincidence that the rapid growth at Courtenay/Comox happened to coincide with the precise quarter WJ started n/s service from YYC?

Look at the the MLS statistics for the area. I guess that's a coincidence too?

I don't think there are many folks in that area, starting withthe Mayor and the Chamber of Commerce who would disagree that WJ's n/s service, low fares, and the competitive response to low fares jump started the areas growth into the stratosphere.

I think you'll find YZF will have experienced a huge % growth in traffic since WJ started service their too. Do you have issues with more people being able to travel too and from Yellowknife?

As for Canadian North, if those top secret loads are true, then what on earth are you worried about? Cdn North is full, and WJ seems satisfied with it's progress in the market given that it has decided to make the service a year round operation, when it just as easily could have discontinued the route in the winter, as it does in dozens of seasonal markets.

[Jastapilot]

Do travelers prefer the hot meals and service over TVs and cookies?

is that $800 vs $200; meals vs cookies, or $200 vs $200; meals vs cookies? Jast axk'n.

[Four1oh]

is that $800 vs $200; meals vs cookies, or $200 vs $200; meals vs cookies? Jast axk'n.

apples and oranges, or is it apples OR oranges?

[5dayer]

How come there wasnt all this hype when Air Canada Jazz started going to Yellowknife? Isnt that considered an Air Canada route then.Free enterprise and like was said earlier why would WJ make it a year round route if it was losing money. Maybe people are tired of RJs breaking down because they cant handle the extreme cold or always late because the old 200s break down so much. CDN is a native organisation so no matter what happens the government money is there if its need.Enough whining already

[whiteguy]

How come there wasnt all this hype when Air Canada Jazz started going to Yellowknife? Isnt that considered an Air Canada route then.Free enterprise and like was said earlier why would WJ make it a year round route if it was losing money. Maybe people are tired of RJs breaking down because they cant handle the extreme cold or always late because the old 200s break down so much. CDN is a native organisation so no matter what happens the government money is there if its need.Enough whining already

What temp are the B737 rated to? Will the B737 be able to handle the extreme cold? Maybe you should wait till after the winter before shooting your mouth off.

Most of the "old" 200s were delivered to Jazz brand new in late 2004 early 2005, not exactly old.

[KAG]

-43 C for the 737.

[bmc]

737's have been operated in the high arctic continuously since the 1970's.

[5dayer]

I meant 737 200 not RJ 200. People dont like being lot because of failry consistent mechanical issues. I know there is a lot.

[FICU]

I meant 737 200 not RJ 200. People dont like being lot because of failry consistent mechanical issues. I know there is a lot.

Is that from personal knowledge or a guess?

You'd be very surprised to know how good OTP is for the 737-200 and that is considering weather issues in the arctic.

[rigpiggy]

Personal knowledge, what ass designed a Skidoo that doesn't work in the snow. Don't worry we'll resurrect this thread this winter when the weather dips below -40 for weeks on a row.

[Four1oh]

-43 C for the 737.

where did you find that tidbit?

[Ryan Coke2]

It isn't correct, near as I can find.

[Troubleshot]

-43 C for the 737.

SOURCE: AMM 12-33-02

There are no temperature limitations persay...however...you have to complete various tasks when parking the NG for short term extreme cold and for long term extreme cold (-30c). The biggest concern is oil temp on start-up, the engine oil temp indicated must not be below -40c otherwise dry motoring and heat (herman nelson) must be applied to the core, gearbox, and starter to raise oil temp. above the -40c mark and then only idle power till oil temp. reaches 0c .
There alot of tasks to be completed if the aircraft has parked overnight in -30c or greater temps. before departure ( a few listed)

-check tire pressures
-oleo leakage
-check lower wing for fuel leaks
-IDG oil level check (proper cold weather oil must be used in hamilton standard models)
-sump fuel tanks
-Electric hydraulic pumps ON for 30mins prior to engine start
-pump brakes minimum 8 times before engine start (verify piston movement)
-fuel temperature is at least 3C above the fuel freeze point or -43C, whichever is higher. Use the ASTM method to determine the freeze point.


It goes on and on....


If you are just turning the airplane most of this stuff does not apply, except maybe the fuel temp. I am going to say you may have a few APU hiccups, like won't light off on first try...that sorta thing, or maybe frozen potty water fill lines.

[Rotten Apple #1]

A northern perspective

Points to Ponder
Municipalities should welcome airline competition
Editorial: Nunavut News/North
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the announcements made by Elisapee Sheutiapik, the newly re-elected president of the Nunavut Association of Municipalities, has left us scratching our heads.

At the association's annual general meeting in Cambridge Bay a few weeks ago, its members pledged not to support an incursion into Nunavut airspace by southern airlines such as WestJet or Air Canada.

Now, neither WestJet nor Air Canada has expressed any interest in flying to Nunavut. But the arrival of WestJet in the Yellowknife market in May has reduced the cost of airfare to Edmonton on all airlines. A round-trip ticket that used to cost more than $800 can now be had for about $200, or even less.

The drop in ticket prices on the Yellowknife-Edmonton route may reduce the profits gained by First Air and Canadian North, which are owned by Inuit, employ Inuit, and which make many contributions to community events.

But if WestJet were to begin flying, say, the Iqaluit-Ottawa route, we think most Nunavummiut would gladly welcome a big drop in the cost of airfare and the resulting freedom to travel more frequently outside the territory, even if it results in smaller dividends for Inuit-owned corporations.

Northern airlines recently urged the NWT and Nunavut to adopt a "buy local" policy. In an ideal world, the choice to buy local would be an easy one. But most of us don't have the cash to spare to pay quadruple the going fare for the choice of flying a Northern airline - except when we have no choice.

With its stand on this issue, the Nunavut Association of Municipalities may be defending Northern businesses contrary to the interests of the regular people in the communities it represents.

[KAG]

my bad I gave the inflight fuel temp min...

[bmc]

A northern perspective

Points to Ponder
Municipalities should welcome airline competition
Editorial: Nunavut News/North
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the announcements made by Elisapee Sheutiapik, the newly re-elected president of the Nunavut Association of Municipalities, has left us scratching our heads.

At the association's annual general meeting in Cambridge Bay a few weeks ago, its members pledged not to support an incursion into Nunavut airspace by southern airlines such as WestJet or Air Canada.

Now, neither WestJet nor Air Canada has expressed any interest in flying to Nunavut. But the arrival of WestJet in the Yellowknife market in May has reduced the cost of airfare to Edmonton on all airlines. A round-trip ticket that used to cost more than $800 can now be had for about $200, or even less.

The drop in ticket prices on the Yellowknife-Edmonton route may reduce the profits gained by First Air and Canadian North, which are owned by Inuit, employ Inuit, and which make many contributions to community events.

But if WestJet were to begin flying, say, the Iqaluit-Ottawa route, we think most Nunavummiut would gladly welcome a big drop in the cost of airfare and the resulting freedom to travel more frequently outside the territory, even if it results in smaller dividends for Inuit-owned corporations.

Northern airlines recently urged the NWT and Nunavut to adopt a "buy local" policy. In an ideal world, the choice to buy local would be an easy one. But most of us don't have the cash to spare to pay quadruple the going fare for the choice of flying a Northern airline - except when we have no choice.

With its stand on this issue, the Nunavut Association of Municipalities may be defending Northern businesses contrary to the interests of the regular people in the communities it represents.

It would seem appropriate, therefore, that northern airlines have restrictions on new markets they can serve in southern Canada, or have caps on adding additional frequencies. Controlled access means controlled access.

[Spit-IX]

You have to understand that the northern airlines have no interest in expanding into the southern market. They are "northern" airlines built to serve northern residents.

[bmc]

You have to understand that the northern airlines have no interest in expanding into the southern market. They are "northern" airlines built to serve northern residents.

Not True. If their is a market for non-stops from YZF to YVR, would they not pursue it?

There is nothing stopping them from expanding southward. There is no ownership or regulatory reason to stop them. Such expansion wouldn't negatively impact their northern services. Arguably, it could increase the profitability for shareholders.

[jet a1]

this topic comes up here in yellowknife quite a bit...usually with a little chuckle as you're on the ramp at yzf looking at first air, cdn north, westjet and jazz all lined up beside each other...all going to the same place. as someone who has more of an interest in the aviation industry than your average pax, i don't think the low fares are good for anyone. however, ask around town and the fact you can now justify a quick weekend trip to the west ed mall and you'll get a different opinion. "oh it's so great", "it's almost to good to be true".

it is.

i see the pax boarding the south bound jets and i think, they have no idea that the people who ride those jets NORTH from yellowknife are making this possible. the fares to and from the communities north of yzf have gone up to cover the difference. personally i feel no one is making a huge issue over the northern fares because most of the people who fly in and out of the north aren't paying for their own tickets. they get travel through work, or they're on medical travel etc. however, there is still a group of people who do pay out of pocket and the ability for them to travel has gone way, way down. pretty unfair in my mind.

bit of a rant i guess.
jet.

[bmc]

I just looked on Westjet's website and it will cost $169 one way from YZF to YEG this Saturday. Tax in, it's $201.25

If that's a low fare, what was the competition charging before Westjet came in?

[FICU]

You have to understand that the northern airlines have no interest in expanding into the southern market. They are "northern" airlines built to serve northern residents.

Not True.

Nope, it's true. Why would they look at competing in a low cost race to the bottom in southern Canada when there are already enough seats with AC and WJ. Charter work is much more lucrative and is better for the shareholders. Their sked service will always be focused on the north and serving the northern shareholders. Northern airlines keep their money in the north while WJ and AC take the money from the north and move it south.

WJ had less than 40 pax yesterday, normally a very busy day. WJ is now seeing the decline in numbers post summer holiday travel season. I think WJ will have to raise their fares this winter or they will be losing their shirts on this run.

[bmc]

I never suggested competing in southern Canada. Re-read my post.

If traffic demand from the north to an unserved destination in southern Canada made sense to operate, they would go after it. For example, if traffic from YYZ to YZF made sense to operate as a profitable nonstop service, why wouldn't they go after it?

[bmc]

I just checked Canadian North's price for this Saturday, and I can get to YEG for $99. Tax in, that's $127.

First Air quotes $117 for a total of $127.75

So, what's the fuss with Westjet fares destroying the market?

If yield integrity is such an issue, quit acting irresponsibly and raise your fares. You have a responsibility to your northern shareholders

[W5]

Northern airline ends flights to Hay River

By Bill Mah, edmontonjournal.comSeptember 24, 2009 12:02 PM



EDMONTON — Canadian North, an aboriginally owned airline with a mandate to serve the North, announced Thursday it is cutting all flights to Hay River, NWT.

Effective Oct. 25, all scheduled flights to Hay River are cancelled. All flights to Calgary will also be cut, while service between Edmonton and Yellowknife will be reduced.

The Yellowknife-based airline blamed a struggling economy, a glut of seats on routes served by competitors based in the south and underperforming routes.

“These are demanding times and we are taking the steps necessary to address these challenges in line with our mandate to provide essential air services to the people and communities of the North,” said Canadian North president Tracy Medve.

“Having said that, we can no longer justify competing at current levels on routes characterized by an oversupply of seats and a price structure that compromises our commitment in other areas.

“Neither can we continue to provide service to areas that have not met our market expectations.”

Five Canadian North employees based in Hay River will lose their jobs.

The company said customers who had booked now-cancelled flights will be accommodated or receive refunds by calling their travel agent or the airline call centre at 1-800-661-1505.