question about the new aviation document

[Strega]

Why is there 20 spaces for medical certs when the aviation document is only valid for 5 years?

[taylor498]

I had the same question, but I counted 51. TC asked for feedback about the booklet, so here's my question and their response.

Why are there twenty spaces for licensing and fifty one spaces for medical certification? Even ATPL's with medicals every 6 months will take 25 years to fill this section... is this really nessecary?

[licensing] The booklet will be valid for 5 years. Take for instance a commercial pilot holder who has an instrument rating... he could go through about 5 instrument ratings renewals in those 5 years which would count for 5 of those 20 spaces along, that's if he stays with one company. Now, if you add some aircraft type ratings, possible licence upgrade, instructors rating, etc...spaces fill up quite quickly. So much like a highway in a major city, we have designed the booklet for the future and possible worse case scenarios.

[medicals] Yes, we need the space for the same reasons already mentioned above. We have space for only 5 different medical certificates. I agree with your reasoning and luckily, most of us are healthy pilots with very little change in health. In our case, 2 pages would be sufficient, half of one page filled with our MC and the rest of the 1 and a half pages for renewals (12) However, we do have holders that go through a medical certificate every 6 months or so...so space was made for those cases as well.

In the end it really doesn't matter all that much. I guess they wanted to fill all 24 pages to make it "passport style"? For the record, I actually like the new document.

[Hedley]

*** edited ***

[niss]

Is this acceptable documentation for crossing into the US? Or is that a little more foresight than TC is willing to offer?

[RatherBeFlying]

Is this acceptable documentation for crossing into the US? Or is that a little more foresight than TC is willing to offer?

Bureaucracy is all about making the sheeple jump through more hoops -- adding convenience is counter-bureaucratic.

[Brewguy]

it ain't a passport, sorry.

But a passport isn't necessarily required; What's needed to cross into the US is a form of 'secure' identification that's acceptable to the US authorities. I know Ontario designed it's new drivers license to meet the US requirements ... not sure if it's been deemed acceptable yet by the US, but the design was to meet their specs for a 'secure' form of I.D.

[rotateandfly]

Got mine a couple of weeks ago.
Question: All it says is LP: EN/FR, which I'm guessing stands for Language Proficiency in English and French, but where can I find my language proficiency Level 1-6?

[Aeros]

Got mine a couple of weeks ago.
Question: All it says is LP: EN/FR, which I'm guessing stands for Language Proficiency in English and French, but where can I find my language proficiency Level 1-6?

Your guess is correct -- if you look at the inside of the back cover you will find the "legend" to help you decode.

Transport will not print the LP "rating" on the licence. The only way to know how you scored would be from the person that carried out your examination for the Language Proficiency Rating. If you didn't have a test completed then your score was based on an "administrative review" of your file. In that case, you would have been assessed as an "expert" and will not require any further testing. (Transport was not able to provide any ratings other than "expert" through the administrative review process. If you couldn't be deemed an expert you would have been required to submit to an evaluation.)

If those options don't lead you to an adequate solution you can view your ratings through the "General Aviation On-Line Service" though the "view details" option in the "My File" section of "Aviation Licensing". If you haven't signed up for this service (it requires that you have an ePass account) you can find more information by following this link.

[rotateandfly]

Hi Aeros,

thanks for your quick and thorough answer. I reviewed my file online and it says "Expert" even though I never took a test.
My problem right now is that I'm applying for a European ATPL and they want to know which level was assessed on my Canadian license in order to make it the same on the German one. The normal German LP would be level 4 which will require an English test every 3 years.
I just don't know if the print out from my online file will be enough to satisfy the German authorities or if I should call TC and ask them for an official letter saying that my LP is in fact "Expert". I've had different experiences dealing with TC, some of them very positive and others not so much.

[Aeros]

I would imagine that you could get some sort of letter from Transport that would state your language proficiency. The last time that I had them provide me with a verification of my licence it was before the LP thing came to be. That verification talked about all the various ratings, I would assume that a current verification would also include my language proficiency rating.

[xsbank]

According to JAA, if you are a native english-speaker you are a level 6.

[hairdo]

I reviewed my file online and it says "Expert" even though I never took a test.

I presume that those of us who were "grandfathered" in were assigned an expert level.

According to JAA, if you are a native english-speaker you are a level 6.

I had one student who was a native english (and french) speaker... she got a level 4!

[xsbank]

Level 4 is the default but that will change when she sits in front of an examiner.

[niss]

So to review...this does not fall under secure document under WHTI?

[hairdo]

Level 4 is the default but that will change when she sits in front of an examiner.

No no! She got that AFTER she sat in front of the examiner!

[Vortex_driver]

is it just me or I didn't see the stupid radio operator certificate in all this? aren't we suppose to carrie it with our documents legally?

[Randleman]

Is this acceptable documentation for crossing into the US? Or is that a little more foresight than TC is willing to offer?

last time I gave them my pilots license instead of my passport going into the US, I ended up being questioned for 2 hours.

it ain't a passport, sorry.

But a passport isn't necessarily required; What's needed to cross into the US is a form of 'secure' identification that's acceptable to the US authorities. I know Ontario designed it's new drivers license to meet the US requirements ... not sure if it's been deemed acceptable yet by the US, but the design was to meet their specs for a 'secure' form of I.D.

?? I'm not sure where you got that, but the law is that now a passport is required to cross into the states. Air, land, or sea. In BC you can use an "enhanced BC drivers license" I am not sure what they have Ontario.

[Randleman]

is it just me or I didn't see the stupid radio operator certificate in all this? aren't we suppose to carrie it with our documents legally?

You are correct. However, the RORC is issued by 'Industry Canada.' Since the Aviation Document is issued by 'Transport Canada' the two are kept separate. So you have to find a way to keep the two together (I bought a passport book and put my license, passport, citizenship card, and RORC in there, and I carry it with me whenever I fly or go across the border). Is it stupid that the two areas of government won't communicate to make it one book? Yes...but that's the way it is.

[Brewguy]

...?? I'm not sure where you got that, but the law is that now a passport is required to cross into the states. Air, land, or sea....

No, it isn't. What is required is an approved form of secure identification (from the list below). Apparently BC, Manitoba, Ontario & Quebec all have new drivers licenses that meet the requirements of an "Enhanced Drivers License" or an "Enhanced Identification Card".

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/whti-ivho/ls-tm-eng.html

Western Hemisphere Travel Initative
Documents for entry into the United States
Land and water ports of entry
(Effective June 1, 2009)

Canadian citizens are required to present one of the following valid WHTI-compliant documents when entering the United States by land or water:

* a passport;
* a NEXUS card;
* a Free and Secure Trade (FAST) card;
* an enhanced driver's licence (EDL) or enhanced identification card (EIC) from a province where a U.S.-approved EDL/EIC program has been implemented; or
* a Secure Certificate of Indian Status (when this certificate is available and approved by the United States). In the interim, the current Certificate of Indian Status is an acceptable document to present when entering the United States by land or water.

It's just surprising (well okay, maybe not that surprising) that TC didn't make the new license booklet so that it would meet the requirement. I suppose their argument would be that you would be entering by air, and so would therefore need a passport anyways. It's only entering by land or sea that you can get away with another form of approved ID from their list.

In an ideal world, both TC and the FAA would be lobbying the border / homeland security types to allow a new 'secure' form of pilots license to be used for entry by air for cross border flights, without a passport ... like that will ever happen, eh?

[Strega]

I suppose their argument would be that you would be entering by air, and so would therefore need a passport anyways

Nope

Nexus is fine by air land and sea.

[FICU]

is it just me or I didn't see the stupid radio operator certificate in all this? aren't we suppose to carrie it with our documents legally?

A stapler is your friend.

This document book is a complete joke!

[C-GGGQ]

I had the same question, but I counted 51. TC asked for feedback about the booklet, so here's my question and their response.

Why are there twenty spaces for licensing and fifty one spaces for medical certification? Even ATPL's with medicals every 6 months will take 25 years to fill this section... is this really nessecary?

[licensing] The booklet will be valid for 5 years. Take for instance a commercial pilot holder who has an instrument rating... he could go through about 5 instrument ratings renewals in those 5 years which would count for 5 of those 20 spaces along, that's if he stays with one company. Now, if you add some aircraft type ratings, possible licence upgrade, instructors rating, etc...spaces fill up quite quickly. So much like a highway in a major city, we have designed the booklet for the future and possible worse case scenarios.

[medicals] Yes, we need the space for the same reasons already mentioned above. We have space for only 5 different medical certificates. I agree with your reasoning and luckily, most of us are healthy pilots with very little change in health. In our case, 2 pages would be sufficient, half of one page filled with our MC and the rest of the 1 and a half pages for renewals (12) However, we do have holders that go through a medical certificate every 6 months or so...so space was made for those cases as well.

In the end it really doesn't matter all that much. I guess they wanted to fill all 24 pages to make it "passport style"? For the record, I actually like the new document.

Apparently not even transport known the renewal reqs for your instrument rating. Also with renewing your medical every 6 months 5 years would equal 10 medicals not 51.

[xsbank]

The US, the most paranoid country on the earth, particularly when it comes to pilots, issues a credit-card size license (which is so practical, it makes me want to pee) but Canada needs to produce a tome so large it won't fit in your wallet, is useless for crossing borders and does not say "License" anywhere on the cover so that moronic border/Immigration people in countries NOT the US just boggle. I guess its true that Merlin Preuss' brother owns the printing company. Maybe we'd have gotten lucky if he had bought a credit card machine instead?

This is the most asinine, ridiculous wasteful nonsense - if it had come out of Egypt or Samoa, OK, what else is there to do there? Pasting all those little stickies in your bookie (what's the penalty for sticking a sticky on the wrong page?). Wait, you are in contravention of CARS 703-8472548697 Annex p Part 5647382 Section 85484imadork because your stickie is stuck in the wrong page and this one, under Article 4536729 of the UN Convention on Stickie Books, this one is in upside down!

Every other license I own, including my gun card which came from another government paragon of common sense is on a piece of plastic the size of a credit card.

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!

Lemme see, I'm going flying so I need my 'Aviation Document' in its custom-made man-bag, my official never-seen-the-light-of-day Official Canadian Radio License so I can talk on the radio, my FAA credit card license, my FAA Radio License, my FAA medical, which all fits in my wallet in my butt pocket, my credit-card size PPC card which I got from the flying school and won't stay stuck in my stickie book, my birth certificate that I'm not allowed to laminate or I'll be struck by lightning, a credit-card-sized credit card, oh yeah, maybe my passport, will that fit in a normal passport wallet with my Aviation Document Stickie Book? Nope.

Gee, do ya think a few of us, sitting in the bar for a safety meeting at the end of a long duty day might have been able to think up a better way to make a new format for the license we all have to drag around? After the first round?

[Randleman]

The US, ... After the first round?

now that was entertaining!

[office_supply]

Just an FYI, I have successfully crossed the border (Ontario to New York) once with the Aviation Document (booklet) instead of my passport. The agent at first looked at it and asked for my passport. I told him that I had been told (forget by whom) that it was a valid document for border crossings. He scanned it and told me it was valid.

Tried it on another crossing but the girl refused to try and scan it. So what the official word on it is... I have not a clue. But at least one agent has let me through with it and it seems the (computer) system does accept the Aviation Document.

But, I like the booklet a lot more than the old paper stuff. Even the cover's colour is right