journey log

[Bulawrench]

Why is it that Pilots refuse to complete their entry for a flight sector.
Dido marks,no date, no license number. Are they just lazy, disgruntled or stupid.
The worst culprit is the Chief Pilot. What is up fellas?

[Hedley]

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[niss]

Don't get me started on journey logs.

[Brewguy]

Oh, please. Do tell, I'm dying to hear an opinion on it...

Damn those 'Journey Logs' the crazy Canadians keep ... how's a pilot to fudge their own logs when someone is keeping track of where the aircraft went and how long its been flown for, eh?

[Big Pistons Forever]

This is one area FTU's could do a better job, especially on the CPL course. I emphasize the importance of correct paper work as part of the training. A 20 dollar contribution to the staff party fund for every mistake , also does wonders to improve JL entry accuracy.

Actually checking the JL before flight also seems to be a foreign concept at many FTU's. I was recently working freelance for an FTU, on a guys instructor rating. The aircraft we were given had been flown twice that day on dual training flights with an open snag

[beaverbob]

Oh, please. Do tell, I'm dying to hear an opinion on it...

Damn those 'Journey Logs' the crazy Canadians keep ... how's a pilot to fudge their own logs when someone is keeping track of where the aircraft went and how long its been flown for, eh?

You can fudge your own logs by putting what ever you want in the journey log.
A journey log is a waste of time. Who gives a rats ass where the plane went or when it took off. Airframe air time is all that should matter; as is now the case with the new journey log books. I always thought a tamper proof airframe hour meter should be the answer. All maintenance would then refer to the hour meter.
A simple daily log should be required only for recording maintenance issues as discovered by the pilot.
Bob

[Donald]

This is one area FTU's could do a better job, especially on the CPL course.

Agreed on this one. Back when I did my training, we never went over the logbook paperwork aspect. It was just a matter of, is it on board for cross countries? At my first job, after some particularly frustrating entries for the maintenance dept, the DOM asked a group of us: "What exactly do they teach you guys about logbooks in flight school?" From a wide variety of schools, the main answer was that none had actually checked or entered anything into logbooks during training.

[AEROBAT]

The most usefull thing about the jouney log is you will see when the plane starts using a lot of oil suddenly. That is of course if people bother to enter when they add oil.

[Bulawrench]

I thought maybe lack of training. Much like Doctors get 2 weeks of lessons on nuitrition.
But as a new pilot i am sure people complete the first solo in the log.
There are more and more reasons not to hire high time pilots. Complacent, disgruntled and a risk to all concerned.
Especially if they "don't give a rats ass"

[Shiny Side Up]

Journey Logs are one of my biggest headaches these days. There's one source problem that's been overlooked so far in this thread that needs to be adressed and that's pilot litteracy. Its been my grim discovery that your average human being these days has little or no common sense in writing stuff on paper, absolutely poor spelling, damnable basic arithmetic skills and negligible legibility. Its one of my big beefs with the education system these days, and a huge complaint I have against texters and prolific e-mail users.

To me as a FTU operator, its a problem that's getting out of hand long before people get to me. People can't print - how on earth are they to be trained to write in a log book? To this point at the very least they will have 10 years of bad habits ingrained into them. Heaven help you if an idiot gets a hold of your Journey Log and makes a bad entry. Nevermind the simple adding of times, when it comes to snag entries an imbecile can effectively ground an aircraft for eternity with a spelling error or illegible scribble.

How does one get the AME to rectify "AeRPLane NO WErkinG"


Never mind the fact that you have to make sure pilots don't get their hands on pencil crayons, fat felt markers and glitter pens to make entries with.

I know one pilot who's engineering construction projects in Dubai, but for the life of him can't fill out his Journey Log for his plane. What's the block people can't get over with these things? Its a Journey Log! You're not a doctor making out a prescription.

[crazy_aviator]

pilot litteracy. Its been my grim discovery that your average human being these days has little or no common sense in writing stuff on paper, absolutely poor spelling, damnable basic arithmetic skills and negligible legibility.

Twenty dollars please ( I had to do that ) I do agree that literacy is at an all time low . My grammar is good but my handwriting legibility is atrocious !!! AND IM NOT CRAZY, I JUST WORK IN AVIATION !

[MrWings]

Why is it that Pilots refuse to complete their entry for a flight sector.
Dido marks,no date, no license number. Are they just lazy, disgruntled or stupid.
The worst culprit is the Chief Pilot. What is up fellas?

This post includes spelling errors, a sentence fragment and incorrect use of capitalization and punctuation.

Are you just lazy, disgruntled or stupid?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

There are more and more reasons not to hire high time pilots. Complacent, disgruntled and a risk to all concerned.
Especially if they "don't give a rats ass"

Hmmm, interesting opinions.

I really feel worthless now being a high time pilot.

[beaverbob]

I am an experienced pilot and it seem Transport Canada agrees with me about journey log books. Have you seen the new format?
Date / start time / up / down / stop time / air time and Flight time on the left page and the whole right page for maintenance and other entries as required or desired by the operator or pilot.

I suppose I am a useless old guy and not one to trust with an airplane.
Bob

[Chuck Ellsworth]

What worries me about these new journey logs is the safety factor.

When pilots had to enter the weights in the journey logs you knew the airplanes were never flown over their gross weight, now they can load what ever they want on them because TC no longer requires pilots to record the all up weight of the airplanes before each flight.

The industry is really getting less and less safe.

[beaverbob]

What worries me about these new journey logs is the safety factor.

When pilots had to enter the weights in the journey logs you knew the airplanes were never flown over their gross weight, now they can load what ever they want on them because TC no longer requires pilots to record the all up weight of the airplanes before each flight.

The industry is really getting less and less safe.

I agree, or they do not have to lie as much.
Bob

[CD]

When pilots had to enter the weights in the journey logs you knew the airplanes were never flown over their gross weight...

You forgot the sarcasm smiley face on that one ... 'cuz heaven knows, for all those years the paperwork always indicated a legal load.

[beaverbob]

I can guarantee, without a shadow of a doubt, I have NEVER logged an overload in an airplane; Especially a Beaver.
Bob

[Dagwood]

The aircraft we were given had been flown twice that day on dual training flights with an open snag

I didn't know anyone at a flight school knew how to snag an aircraft

[AEROBAT]

I thought maybe lack of training. Much like Doctors get 2 weeks of lessons on nuitrition.
But as a new pilot i am sure people complete the first solo in the log.
There are more and more reasons not to hire high time pilots. Complacent, disgruntled and a risk to all concerned.
Especially if they "don't give a rats ass"

Who the heck would put first solo in a jouney log? I take it you must be a low time AME and would like to tell high time pilots how to fly, never mind those waskaly wabbits who own homebuilts and do their own maintenance. Totally shocking! How do they stay in the air?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The aircraft journey log should only need the hours flown on a given day.

Any other information is a waste of time. When there was a need to put the weights in it was a joke as I never ever saw a journey log show all the over loads that were the norm.

The page for entering snags is the part that new pilots need training on.

It is impossible for pilots to describe something they don't understand.

Even more interesting would be a book on airplane snags that have been entered in log books....the airplane knows more about most of the pilots that hurt it than the pilot knows about the airplane he/she just hurt.

[CD]

Spot on...

[Hedley]

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[Louis]

I always thought a tamper proof airframe hour meter should be the answer. All maintenance would then refer to the hour meter.

Yeah, and no one could block whatever gets the meter going right?

The new "simple" format journey logs make sense to me. The times, plus whatever maintenance items you need. I actually have a look before I fly an airplane. While airplanes aren't falling out of the American skies, I think it'd be difficult for a pilot to be informed of what's been done and what's been deferred without direct access to the tech records or an approved MEL, which aren't a given.

(As a sidenote: I'll be working on some CPL groundschool material this fall, and I've taken good note of the comments with regards to logbooks, paperwork and snags.)

[Bulawrench]

I love it when people compare us to Americans.
When someone overseas asks me weather i am an American i reply "heavens no" just to see the shock on their face.
A variety of good responses. I am getting a feeling of how professional this group really is.