Civil Aviation Medicine/ Canada

[sic]

Would any pilot(s) care to share positive/negative experiences dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine/Canada with health related issues/disqualifications.
sic

[invertedattitude]

Had a small hiccup on my last medical, had to get checked again by another doctor and all was fine.

In the meantime the people at Civil Aviation were VERY cordial and considerate, which is much more than you can say for many Government organisations.

I've also heard similar stories by other co-workers of mine under similar circumstances. Really felt like they were on my side and wanted to help me make sure I covered all the bases.

[sic]

Thanks "inverted." Much appreciated. What region was your medical completed in?
sic

[Sidebar]

I had a serious injury a few years ago that required surgical repair and extensive rehab. My medical category was "unfit" for 18 months until I could demonstrate in a cockpit practical skills check that I was once again capable of safely operating the aircraft. I now have a cat 1 medical again and am back flying. I felt like I was treated fairly and respectfully by the TC medical staff throughout.

[Hedley]

*** edited ***

[patter]

Do not make the mistake of having your CAME as your personal doctor.
A CAME is working for Transport Canada. And if something is wrong with you you can lose your livelyhood.
Your Doctor is working for you. So if you have a problem. It gets investigated. And if it is limiting then so be it. But in that interim time, you don't neccessarily have a problem. And if is not a problem it is often just a statement on your medical. Went to the doctor for this. As opposed to no medical until it is resolved if brought up with the CAME.
Over the years I have seen this the odd time. It's advice I have always followed.

[Idle Thrust]

Pilots who fly for a living have two doctors. You go to one when you are sick, you go to the other one to prove you're healthy.

[sic]

Thanks very much for the reply's, Sidebar,Hedley, Patter and Idle Thrust. Comments are profound.

I suppose I'm a little taken aback by the process. The role of the CAM is to ensure medical compliance with standards and protocols, that Canada is a signatory to. Period. I have no problem proving medical fitness but hey, "throw me a bone" fellas. Withholding information, making dire medical assumptions based on information found in medical journals or something you heard at a 'all expense paid holiday' at a convention is somewhat disingenuous. The AMRB deals with less than 1% of all pilot medicals. That fraction is reduced ten fold when their dealing with ATPL's. You'd think, when something out of the norm came up, they'd 'pay attention.'

Apparently not.

Thanks again. Fly safe.

sic

[Hedley]

*** edited ***

[black hole]

I was flying in the north and my medical was due. I had limited time to do it and had an appointment. The ECG was due and had to go to a different clinic for that and they said they'd fax it in ?OK?( it was good) Went to the doc and did the medical. That was good but since he didn't have the ECG; he wouldn't sign it. But he also would fax it in. He said that as soon as Transport had all the info they would fax me a temp. "Friday 3:45 PM" guess what? Yup no answer. Monday AM; I Phone to follow up the message I left. Yes they had all the Papers and a fax would be issued as soon as they reviewed it; Great!! Tuesday AM, all I got was "Voice mail". I left a message."please call me if there is a problem" Wednesday AM: I phone again. Oh; Mr.--- we sent you a letter. There were a few boxed that were not check off by the examiner and that will have to be completed before we can issue the medical certificate. "Can you give me an extension"? I'm sorry sir. The doctor will have to complete this information first. Ever Tried to get past the receptionist as a clinic? I'm sorry sir the best we can do is 2 weeks. Well It cost me a job. Thanks to all.

BH

[Driving Rain]

Do not make the mistake of having your CAME as your personal doctor.
A CAME is working for Transport Canada. And if something is wrong with you you can lose your livelyhood.
Your Doctor is working for you. So if you have a problem. It gets investigated. And if it is limiting then so be it. But in that interim time, you don't neccessarily have a problem. And if is not a problem it is often just a statement on your medical. Went to the doctor for this. As opposed to no medical until it is resolved if brought up with the CAME.
Over the years I have seen this the odd time. It's advice I have always followed.

Hogwash. First of all, my license isn't worth my life or the lives of others. My personal doctor is my c.a.m.e. I tell him when something is wrong with me. Sure my medical's been pulled a couple of times. He did his job. Why would anyone hide a medical problem from your doctor?
One time I walked in for my bi-annual medical and said lets not waste any more time. I'm vertually blind in my left eye and couldn't read the second biggest row. He got me to the eye clinic pronto. I got my eye fixed and Transport Canada Civil Aviation AME in Toronto was very, very helpful in getting me back to work sooner rather than later.

[mattedfred]

i have had positive experiences with both dr jim pfaff and dr appleford in toronto

[sic]

Wow? Thanks for the feedback, positive/negative.

It is interesting the comments re: CAME's and personal care physicians. The CAME works for Transport but he/she can also be a pilots greatest asset for advocacy if things "aren't right." The issue I have with CAM is how different their view of 'issues' is from specialist(s) not employed as consultants by the department. I just don't see how/why there seems to be this "prove it" mindset with those people. Why would they not want to help in every way possible to have pilots in need of a little help, get it. It's a throwback to the "pre-CAR" regulatory era of Transport. That has changed. It' not perfect but it is a major improvement over the 'way it was.' There seems to be accountability. CAM? Forget it. They report/are accountable to "God, or God's likeness" whatever that may be to you. They seem to be "untouchable."

Thanks again everyone.

sic

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It's a throwback to the "pre-CAR" regulatory era of Transport. That has changed. It' not perfect but it is a major improvement over the 'way it was.'

I am puzzled at the above statement, please expand on the difference between the " pre-CAR " regulatory era of Transport and now.

What exactly is different?

[sic]

Pre-CAR was probably a poor 'start point' for 'my point.'

In the past 20 years, I believe there have been a number of initiatives taken by the regulatory side of Transport Canada. Some I've agreed with, some I haven't. The "one" constant in that relationship was when I asked a question, someone made an attempt to have the issue resolved. If you didn't like the answer, move up the food chain. Sometimes that help. In the end, you agreed to disagree but there was closure. I've only had one other dealing with CAM which was....20 years ago. That experience was NEGATIVE in the extreme. NEGATIVE doesn't even begin to describe my latest debacle. They don't / won't answer any question asked of them. There has been absolutely nothing 'progressive' with that office, ever, hence my asking my peers what 'their' experience have been, positive or negative.

Hopefully a resolution is forthcoming.

Thanks again, everyone.

sic

[patter]

Not stating a medical problem to your CAME is a problem. Flying when you are in non compliance with CARS is a big NO NO.
Your medical doctor knows you are a pilot. You told him. For those trying to misquote me, this is my point of view. However, the CAME is your business life. Your doctor is your personal life.

[AuxBatOn]

I was flying in the north and my medical was due. I had limited time to do it and had an appointment. The ECG was due and had to go to a different clinic for that and they said they'd fax it in ?OK?( it was good) Went to the doc and did the medical. That was good but since he didn't have the ECG; he wouldn't sign it. But he also would fax it in. He said that as soon as Transport had all the info they would fax me a temp. "Friday 3:45 PM" guess what? Yup no answer. Monday AM; I Phone to follow up the message I left. Yes they had all the Papers and a fax would be issued as soon as they reviewed it; Great!! Tuesday AM, all I got was "Voice mail". I left a message."please call me if there is a problem" Wednesday AM: I phone again. Oh; Mr.--- we sent you a letter. There were a few boxed that were not check off by the examiner and that will have to be completed before we can issue the medical certificate. "Can you give me an extension"? I'm sorry sir. The doctor will have to complete this information first. Ever Tried to get past the receptionist as a clinic? I'm sorry sir the best we can do is 2 weeks. Well It cost me a job. Thanks to all.

BH

Maybe doing your medical a little ahead of time would help, don't you think? I usually schedule it at the beginning of the last month of validity.

No matter when you do it during the month, it will be good until the last day of that month.

[Sidebar]

Flying when you are in non compliance with CARS is a big NO NO.

Wow! Never would have thought that.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Pre-CAR was probably a poor 'start point' for 'my point.'

sic, no problem all I was attempting to do was point out that the communication between TC and their so called " clients " a word they like to use to describe us the tax payer whom they are supposed to work for has gone down hill as long as I have been in aviation.

CAR's are only a part of the reason, the real reason is like any bureaucracy they get progressively less efficient as they expand.

TC has expanded to the point they are disfunctional.

Your experience in dealing with them is like shooting craps in Las Vegas as you never know what the dice will end up showing.

A good TC employee who interacts with the public in an efficient helpful manner is all in the roll of the dice.

If you get a unhelpful or even a totally belligerent TC official you have just rolled the dice and lost.

Complaining about a problem with a TC employee to their managers will get you about the same result as complaining to the management in a casino about your poor luck rolling the dice.

[invertedattitude]

Thanks "inverted." Much appreciated. What region was your medical completed in?
sic

Sorry for the late reply: Atlantic.

[xsbank]

Also, just a reminder not to attempt to get anything done with TC past about 11:00 on a Friday.

Medical branch were good to me but whomever said to keep your doctors separate was right. One=job, other=everything else. Sometimes they cross, but you'll see what I mean when you get past 50.

[sic]

..

Your analogy of being in a 'crap game' with TC re: POI's or CAI's on the regulatory side is spot on. Aviation Medicine is much more clear. "They" are holding all the cards, always and I don't find that all that comforting. The outcome is predestined to 'their' interpretation of 'medical fitness.' The reality is, that's all that counts. Ouch.

Thanks for the response XSBANK. I'm there. (50+). 2 Dr.'s was my charted course. That can also have it's drawbacks when things go wrong.

sic

[Aeros]

Maybe doing your medical a little ahead of time would help, don't you think? I usually schedule it at the beginning of the last month of validity.

No matter when you do it during the month, it will be good until the last day of that month.

You can even renew it earlier than the first of the month and not lose any validity. You can renew your medical in the same way as an Instrument Rating or Instructor Rating -- If you renew it within 90 before the expiry date, it is treated as if it was renewed the day that it expired. (ie -- If your medical is valid until 1 Apr 2010 as long as you renew it after 1 Jan 2010 the "new" medical would expire 1 Apr 2011 -- I'm assuming a CPL/ATPL holder under 40.) If you renew more than 90 days "early" your expiry date will be reset.

CAR404.04 (8)

The end of the validity period of a medical certificate that is renewed in accordance with subsection (1.1) is calculated from

(a) the day on which the preceding validity period ends if the medical examination for the renewal of the certificate is conducted within 90 days before the end of that validity period; or

(b) the first day of the month following the day on which the medical examination for the renewal of the certificate is conducted if the examination is conducted more than 90 days before the end of the preceding validity period.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

sic believe me I understand your frustration and justified fear when dealing with any department in TCCA.

You are correct, they hold all the cards and can and do shuffle them face side up before they give them to you.

In Las Vegas they would be closed down for cheating but in TCCA it is an ingrained culture and the way they do things free of fear of being held accountable.

During my futile attempt to receive what is the basis of our legal system " Due process " the Director General Civil Aviation turned my file over to their " Quality Assurance " department.

The dishonesty and outright disregard for rule of law displayed by the top bureaucrat working directly with the DGCA was unbelievable and would not be accepted in the upper structure of the Mafia.

At one point I was so angry with a communication from the top guy in " Quality Assurance " I almost flew from Portugal to Ottawa to confront him in person.

His attitude was so arrogant defending his dishonesty I knew I could not risk going to Ottawa for fear of what would happen in his office, the last thing I wanted was to go to jail for letting a piece of human garbage bring me down to his level.

Anyhow I hope you end up getting fair and just treatment from TCCA...but like I said you are sitting across from a dealer who shuffles the cards face up before giving them to you.

What makes it truly depressing is they are the only casino in town and you are forced to play in their game.

[Sidebar]

Here's a case of a pilot being treated for potentially disqualifying conditions by doctors other than a CAME, and not disclosing the conditions to his CAME:

Small-plane pilot, 82, lost control minutes after taking off - TSB
Lora Grindlay, The Province

The pilot of a small plane that crashed into a Richmond apartment building likely became incapacitated and lost control of his Piper Seneca minutes after takeoff from YVR, says a Transportation Safety Board spokes- man.

TSB spokesman Bill Yearwood said the elderly pilot didn't report serious health problems to a civil aviation medical examiner for years.

Maple Ridge's Peter Garrison, 82, was being treated for hypertension and diabetes by his family doctor and had suffered a heart attack, but he didn't disclose those conditions to the aviation examiner until the year before the crash. Even then, he was granted a medical certificate after further testing.

The TSB report into the October 2007 crash states: "The pilot had pre-existing health risk factors, making it possible that he suffered an acute medical event resulting in incapacitation and a loss of control of the aircraft." Garrison, 82, was killed when he lost control of his Piper Seneca minutes after takeoff from YVR and roared into a ninth-floor suite of the 15-storey building. One person in the suite struck suffered serious but non-life-threatening injuries and another resident was injured.

Yearwood said as a private pilot over 40, Garrison had to pass a medical exam every two years while commercial pilots over 40 are subjected to medical tests every six months.

Yearwood said a pilot should always consider his health as a risk factor.

"By regulation, pilots are required to ground themselves if they are not well. Even if you have a bad cold or a flu you have a responsibility to not go flying," said Yearwood.

"Pilots are asked to be diligent and report any problems and ground themselves before they go flying again unless they get checked out." The report makes no recommendations, but raises concerns about aging pilots taking to the skies, including identification of age-related medical risk factors.

In 1998 there were 2,290 Canadians over 65 with a private pilot licence and by 2008 the number of private pilots over 65 had increased by 48 per cent to 3,380 and 88 of those were over 75.

Yearwood said there is no mandatory retirement age for private pilots.

lgrindlay@theprovince.com