Report raises concerns about aging (private) pilots

[Widow]

Report raises concerns about aging pilots
Updated: Tue Sep. 29 2009 17:53:22

The Canadian Press

The risks posed by aging pilots is the focus of a Transportation Safety Board report after an octogenarian flew his plane into a Richmond, B.C., highrise two years ago.

The report released Tuesday makes no recommendations but red-flags medical concerns especially as more elderly pilots take to the skies.

On October 19, 2007, 82-year-old Peter Garrison's Piper Seneca crashed into the ninth floor of the building just minutes after taking off Vancouver International Airport.

He was killed and two people in the condo were hurt, one seriously.

Although the 15-storey building did not catch fire, it sustained serious water damage that kept residents out for months.

Although Garrison was on a test flight after getting repairs to the autopilot, the report concluded the most likely cause of the crash was some kind of medical problem.

An autopsy was limited because of the extensive trauma to his body, but there was no evidence of a heart attack and toxicology tests were negative.

TSB inspector Bill Yearwood said the report also highlights the differences in medical exam regulations between commercial and recreational pilots.

"While there is a requirement for pilots with commercial licenses over 40 to have one every six months, a private pilot only needs to have one every five years," he said in an interview.

"So there's a big gap there."

Transport Canada statistics for 2008 show that over a 10-year period the number of private pilots over 65 increased by almost 50 per cent. Of those, 88 pilots were over the age of 75.

Garrison had 60 years of flying experience, but he also had a heart attack 10 years before the crash and had diabetes and hypertension that had existed for between four and 20 years.

His medical certificate allowing him to fly was good for another year.

Yearwood said there's no requirement for pilots to tell the Transport Canada medical examiner of previous medical conditions.

It was only after new concerns were raised in 2006 that the pilot disclosed he had other health issues.

"Had the pilot declared his conditions, he would have been required to complete an exercise electrocardiogram every two years and a resting electrocardiogram yearly," the report stated.

Further testing on Garrison showed his cardiac system was deteriorating but a Transport Canada screening concluded the pilot met its requirements and the medical certificate was validated.

"This report in itself is a heads-up on safety issues," Yearwood said. "And we understand through discussions that Transport Canada is looking at some of the issues of aging pilots."

The report outlines three possible scenarios for the crash including that it was an intentional act. It was discounted because of Garrison's concerns and care taken with his plane before taking off.

An equipment problem that could not have been overcome by the pilot was also deemed unlikely.

"The pilot had pre-existing health risk factors, making it possibility that he suffered an acute medical event resulting in incapacitation and loss of control of the aircraft," the report concludes.

Garrison had three previous accidents with the same aircraft in 1979, 1998 and 2006.

The report gives no details on the cause of those accidents.

Note: I don't see the report on the TSB website yet.

[tedcuthbert]

"While there is a requirement for pilots with commercial licenses over 40 to have one every six months, a private pilot only needs to have one every five years," he said in an interview.


don't private pilots over 40 require a medical every 2 yrs?

[Widow]

So it would seem: http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/regse ... htm#404_04

... but, this chart is new as of Dec. 30, 2007. Perhaps it was different at the time of the accident?

[petpad]

Old pilots are no different than old drivers. My dad is over the 80 mark and still drives. Oh he can drive, but his vision is much worse in terms of judging corners, peripheral and anticipation of when to brake, accelerate or practising defensive driving. As a result, he drives slower than a battalion of snails on crutches. He drives everyone crazy around him , and his driving style is very common of the elderly driver. An 82 year old pilot is likely no different that your typical 82 year old driver. Slower in all respects of the body - while the mind is still young at heart and alert and sensitive to all the attacks on the facts of the aging life. There should be a point where older pilots are required to fly dual, with another qualified pilot, period. I will get there too, as we all, and hopefully I will have the common sense to stop driving and stop flying before I hurt someone. I will gladly trade both for a golf cart... as soon as possible as a matter of fact, that is until they ask for a medical to drive one of those lovely beasts.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

There should be a point where older pilots are required to fly dual, with another qualified pilot, period.

What age would that be?

[CelBatrin]

[Cat Driver]

CelBatrin when you demean your elders it may be worth your while examining your own abilities.

You are welcome to come to Nanaimo and demonstrate your skills and knowledge to a senior citizen...I'll even supply the airplane so you can teach me how to fly.

By the way it is on amphibious floats so which makes it even more useful for deciding where my problems lie.

[MichaelP]

By the way it is on amphibious floats so which makes it even more useful for deciding where my problems lie.

That makes it a whole lot easier when you need to pee or empty the colostomy bag... There are many more places to go
It occurs to me that an aeroplane on amphibs is just like an aeroplane with a Zimmer frame....

I nearly met the subject pilot, as we were climbing out onto the crosswind!
I had words with him about that one.

I hope we all have consideration towards safety such that we take safety pilots along when we become less than fully fit to fly.

[paydaymayday]

I know some old pilots that are absolutely terrifying, yet I know some even older pilots that I would trust my family with.

The truth is, aging affects everyone differently, but it is still a factor. Perhaps a dual-only rule is too draconian for those that can actually fly with age, so perhaps a periodic check is in order for everyone over a specific age - not unlike how we have the IFR recurrency every 2 years, except for the basic license, after a certain age.

Just a quick competency check every one or two years, perhaps?

[MUSKEG]

I don't see a specific age being the factor. I'm sure Chuch Yeager would agree. However I also have a elderly father who I once thought could jump over buildings now having a dificult time driving. For me ability always has and should continue to be the deciding factor. A quick check ride every year after say 70 and all is good. (PPL) Hey Cat I think someone like you would be great at heading up a bunch of inspectors whose job it is to see that old pilots remain safe old pilots. There are two things that will happen to you without fail, you will get old if you live long enough and then you will die. You can bet the ranch on that. So all of you young people dissing us older folk............you will get there too.

[niss]

CelBatrin when you demean your elders it may be worth your while examining your own abilities.

You are welcome to come to Nanaimo and demonstrate your skills and knowledge to a senior citizen...I'll even supply the airplane so you can teach me how to fly.

By the way it is on amphibious floats so which makes it even more useful for deciding where my problems lie.

., I certainly see your beef with this but answer me honestly. How much of you has started to change over the years with relation to your ability. I have no doubt about your ability to fly on a hole, but has it gotten a little slower or delayed than you used to be?

If the answer is none then you are in a small percentage of old people.

PS I would love to get some airtime and learn from you someday...I just hope your a/c does not have the old person smell.

[petpad]

What age would that be?

Unfortunately, it cannot be a specific age, too drastic, as it is unfair to the lucky 86 year old who is healthy as a rock; and you cannot ask CAMEs to make the determination based on the exam, because they will determine so too early in order to cover their butts. Still, the CAME is already empowered to do so, he can simply pull the medical, so in theory, the aging pilot would have no choice but to go with another "certified" pilot. But the reality is, CAME exams are very lenient, and CAMEs of elderly pilots tend to be lifelong friends with said pilots, so there. Blind deaf and cranky - you can still go.

You and I and everybody here know that there are many, many, many pilots who fly with expired medicals, no medicals, heck, without a pilots licence to begin with. Very few people get hurt in the process because of the old Big Sky Small airplane concept. The two people who had this aircraft fly into their high-rise condo and who got injured probably feel differently about this idea. If what Yearwood said above is true, and the feds are looking into it, then I suppose that's good enough for me. I doubt they will have any new rule in effect soon.

[Investigator]

.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I have no doubt about your ability to fly on a hole, but has it gotten a little slower or delayed than you used to be?

Not that I can detect, the only problem I see now is I don't fly enough and it takes a while to get back in the grove. sort of like shooting pool or playing golf.

But I am not really very old yet, remember Bob Hoover did air shows into his eighties and he sure didn't lose any of his skills from watching him fly.

To tell you the truth niss the real reason I retired from the last job I had flying in the air show circuit was I got tired of all the B.S and being away from home for long periods of time.

I am going to get a check ride with B-Rad in a few days to satisfy myself and the insurance company that I am still safe...

..want to know how it goes?

[Doc]

Do you know what an 80 year old in Ontario has to do to renew a Driver's Licence? Write the exam, and do an eye test. No drive around the block required. I think that's wrong. Cat, I'm sure you've been behind one of these folks who should probably be hanging up the car keys. They ain't all equal. It's just a fact of life. I know my own father drove for about five years too long. There are lives at risk here......WAY more important than hurting the feelings of a few senior citizens.
Test them at 80. If they pass, let them fly/drive. But test them at least every other year after 80. Their hurt egos be damned.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

No where have I even suggested that there should not be a test for older pilots.

My personal opinion is we should use the same criteria used by airlines for mandatory retirement which is now 65.

A flight test once a year is the minimum that I feel should be necessary.

Age definately is a factor in ones ability to do anything, however there is a wide range from one person to another where age starts to degrade ones physical and mental abilities.

So a flight test every year after 65 would be my choice.

[CelBatrin]

CelBatrin when you demean your elders it may be worth your while examining your own abilities.

You are welcome to come to Nanaimo and demonstrate your skills and knowledge to a senior citizen...I'll even supply the airplane so you can teach me how to fly.

By the way it is on amphibious floats so which makes it even more useful for deciding where my problems lie.

Hmmm... If I can log the PIC time and bring an air freshener, then I'll consider it.

Ok. I would have to say that ability in anything generally decreases with age. Also that ability varies from person to person. There are several variables at work, but as one gets older, age becomes the dominant one.
I agree with something along these lines

a flight test every year after 65

And I have no doubt that you can fly your plane much better then me (I don't even have a float rating). I also don't have a doubt (assuming we each live long enough) that a day will come when our positions will be reversed.

[Doc]

So a flight test every year after 65 would be my choice.

That's a perfect solution. At very least a required "sign off" by a qualified instructor, or qualified person. Not a whole PPL flight test, but a general competency check. A few circuits, a little air work, and a refresher as deemed necessary. I'd vote for it. Obviously, if you still work for an air service, your regular annual checks would suffice.

[Old Dog Flying]

At 74, I am still flying for pleasure and I'd love to demonstrate my flying to Niss ..in his aircraft. Although I haven't flown CF-UBC in over 30 years, I still remember the numbers.

And I get a PPC every year for my aircraft insurance. Come to think of it I know a few "younger" aircraft drivers that could use a PPC on a regular basis.

Barney

[Chuck Ellsworth]

As we are well aware Doc recurrent training and check rides are part of being a working pilot, we all take them as a normal part of being a pilot.

Therefore requiring pilots over 65 to show competency not only will keep a check on their ability it will also give them recurrent training.

I am not really wild about more rules but some rules are more important than others.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Hmmm... If I can log the PIC time and bring an air freshener, then I'll consider it.

I have flown with hundreds of pilots over the last fifty six years CelBatrin and that is the first time anyone wanted to bring an air freshener.

The airplane is almost brand new with barely fifty hours on it so it smells factory fresh.

Why would you need an air freshener?

[CelBatrin]

Its sort of on the inside, and some might argue in bad taste... Oh well.
Anyway, don't think too much of it ..

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Its sort of on the inside, and some might argue in bad taste... Oh well.
Anyway, don't think too much of it ..

I won't and you shouldn't worry to much about the smell in an airplane I fly either because it is unlikely you will have to be worried about it.

[tired of the ground]

There was a study done that stated that there are 2 things that keep you safe wile driving. Now while it was a study in automobiles, it certainly applies to airplanes.

It basically figured out that while you are learning you rely heavily on reaction time to keep you safe. This is why most people have the tendency to over control the airplane in the first couple hours. They're reacting to what they see without the experience to know that it doesn't take so much input to make the correction.

As time goes by the experience takes over and the reaction times are not required because experience allows them to see further ahead and not require quick reaction times to make the same things happen.

The elderly will eventually reach the threshold where their experience doesn't make up for the lessening reaction time and they can no longer perform the task. It's fairly easy to determine when that time has come, test. If their experience can make up for the bodies fallacies then let them fly till their body calls it quits. If they can't, well then you know what you have to do. It's not cause we're all assholes who want someone to stop flying, it's because their body can no longer perform the task they are asking it to do. It's just about public safety, theirs and the people around them.

I think that if you can prove you can do it, then have at 'er.

[CelBatrin]

Interesting perspective tired of the ground.

Although older pilots generally have more experience, how much experience is required to account for increased reaction time? Where does it overlap?

These pilots may easily pass certain check flights consisting of general exercises (exercises which they have allot of familiarity with) and even simulated emergency situations, simply due to they're past experience. But how would such flight checks address a wide range of uncommon and unforeseen situations where reaction time would play a large factor.

For example, the 60 year old pilot that was not on frequency (misheard, but I don't want to get into the hearing tests standards) and collided with a rotary over the Hudson. Seems to me that he saw the other aircraft and banked right at the last moment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BUFWpxd ... _embedded). Most likely a younger pilot would have reacted faster. If you don't like that example, I'm sure you'll agree that there are many others in which the reaction time of older pilots just wasn't fast enough.

I'd be interested to find out how many beers the average 30 year old would need to match the reaction time of the average sober 60 year old.