Journey Log and Amateur-Built Category

[SkySailor]

Scenario: Amateur-Built aeroplane with current Canadian Special C of A. Current owner was also the builder some 20+ year's ago. The aeroplane has only been owned by this one person.

Problem: Journey Log has been lost. No copies available. Only confirmation of times on airframe would be pilot's (owners) personal logbook.

How can this situation be rectified? New Journey Log with a "declaration" of times made by the owner/builder? How would this affect potential sale, and steps necessary for the new owner to be in compliance? Would a worse case scenario require the current registration to be disposed of, and aeroplane stripped down to individual parts for re-inspection as "new" amateur-built?

Please remember this is an amateur-built aeroplane. Although it does have similiar Journey Log requirements as standard C of A aircraft, I'm guessing (hoping!) the process to replace will be a little more "forgiving"(!).

Thanking you in advance....

SkySailor.

P.S. Any "unofficial" Transport Canada suggestions would also be appreciated (if you're out there )

[hangarline]

A technical log should also have been maintained that should not be more than 30 days out of date with the journey log, so the missing info should all be there that could be used to start a new journey log. This is not a new situation, it happens.

[revr]

The journey log is only required to be kept for one year.
but you do have to have a set of tech logs back to the first flight.
you could always take the times from the tech logs 1 year ago then start a new journey log from there and transcribe the times into your new journey log.
if there are no tech logs then you are into bigger issues.
good luck.

[SkySailor]

Thanks for the input. I checked around today for input and got a little more info. Among others, Transport Canada did shed a little more light on a possible solution. While TC did mentioned (as yourself did) about the tech. logs, I pointed out that the amateur category does permit entries regarding engine, airframe, and prop to be entered directly into the Journey Log. The tech logs are not required as long as the above information is entered along with a maintenance schedule in the Journey Log. There was an implied agreement (my impression) with TC with regards to the above. However, it was stated that further information would need to be discussed with the appropriate inspector before a resolution could be reached.

When I suggested that an affidavit be signed by the builder/owner as to airframe times, TC responded to the possibility this could be considered. Since the aircraft had yearly annual inspection forms mailed to TC (and these forms record annual airframe times), they where open to the idea of cross referencing these forms with the affidavit to confirm declared times. Again, they will need a closer look at the situation, before confirming.

Transport is aware that the nature of Amateur-Built category is more open to other possibilities for facilitating a quicker active status. I could close the current registration, dismantle the aircraft, re-register the parts with MDA(minister-designate), rebuild with required inspections, new special C of A, new C of R, fly off 25 trouble free hours, and have the "same" plane, clean and ready to go. However, this would much increase time and cost! A lot of hassle for missing paperwork! They realize paperwork does go missing, and will try to work on resolving the issue without having to "scratch" the plane as it currently exists. I'm waiting to hear from another inspector who is more familiar with this type of scenario. We'll see...!

[SkySailor]

Sorry, I should have added, there are no tech. logs.

[mmartin1872]

Isn't the requirement for "tech records" if they are lost, to have all the TX'd parts traceability. So in essence, because there is no "tx'd parts" on an amateur built aircraft, you should just need to perform an annual inspection, and start the new tech records?
But I may be wrong on that fact

[SkySailor]

It would seem now there is a possibility of some kind of documentation. Initially, it appeared the only recorded information available was a pilot's log. Now, it seems there might be other info recorded such as work performed on the aircraft. The info is not recorded in a Journey log or Tech log format, but could probably be transfered over to an acceptable format. I'll have to look at this "paperwork" before jumping to conclusions.

mmartin1872, I think you are pointed in the right direction with your comment/suggestions. I intend to follow up with Transport next week for clarification. This weekend I'll be checking the above mentioned "paperwork", and discussing it's contents with Transport. All things considered, this issue should be resolved in a straight forward manner...I hope(!)

Thanks for your input, folks.

[AEROBAT]

I only keep a Journey log with my homebuilt and all the maintenance is logged in it. I wouldn't worry about, if the plane is in good shape just buy it and start a new log. Get the hours flown total time from the last annual report and estimate the hours missing. If the previous owner kept his pilots log up to date maybe you could use those hours?

You have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting asked for paper work in my experience. I have rented airplanes and never even been asked to show a pilots licence.

[mmartin1872]

I wouldn't have any "issue" with starting a new tech record either. At the beginning of the record I would put the approximate air time, and i would probably put a certifying statement with the engine type, prop selection, the fact that the aircraft conforms with it's type certificate, and that an annual inspection has been complied with. If you look in CARS 605.94 and 605.96, and the schedule/appendix that is mentioned in those regs, you can see what is "required" to be transferred into the tech records when you start a new tech log.

[200hr Wonder]

Problem: Journey Log has been lost. No copies available. Only confirmation of times on airframe would be pilot's (owners) personal logbook.

Assuming that this information is accurate, could you not recreate the log from this source? That of course assumes he is the only pilot of the aircraft...

[hangarline]

I sense from the various posts here that some folks don't seem to understand that a tech log is a requirement to be maintained for just this reason. Should the journey log go missing either from loss or being destroyed in an accident, that the history of the aircraft can be traced from start to the present. The tech log is or should be an exact copy of the journey log's pertinent information. (flight times, maintenance performed, parts installation, mods etc.) Here is the requirement from the CAR's.

549.25 Log Books and Maintenance Records

In accordance with Air Regulation 826 (1) a Journey Log Book and Technical Log Books are required for each amateur-built aircraft.

Information Note: (Ref. AMA 549/1A, paragraph 12).

Certainly even just the time spent on looking into this matter for this one aircraft should convince you that it would have been easier to maintain a tech log rather that find a solution as to how to do it after the loss of a journey log.

[AEROBAT]

It is pretty obvious the plane was built before we adopted CARS. The journey log was all that was needed.

[SkySailor]

Thanks to everyone for your input. I've dropped off the scene for the past several days due to several obligations.

There seems to have been some initial confusion with the "previous" owner as to the Journey Log. Turns out there is a JL after all. Tech logs are non-existent, but entries are made in the Journey Log regarding oil changes, 100hr inspections, snags, annuals, etc... I expect moving forward, this will comply with Transport requirements.

I say "previous" owner because.......I now own it!!!! Bought it last weekend! The aircraft will need work. I intend to remove all fabric (needed to be replaced anyway), and have a very thorough inspection of all components. This will most likely be my winter "project". Looking forward to spring and possibly a north western Ontario "road" trip! Would like to share the type of aircraft on this website, however, there are very few of this type in the civil aircraft registry. Since I'm relatively new to this site, I would prefer to remain anonymous for just a little while longer! I can say the aircraft is a two place, steel tube and fabric design, with wood wing.

If anyone has info regarding a tube 'n fabric guy in eastern Ontario, I'm all ears!!! I have a LOT to learn about aircraft design/maintenance in the coming months/years!! All input is greatly welcomed and appreciated.

Thanks again,

SkySailor.

[AEROBAT]

What plane did you buy? Once you have the fabric off check for corrosion in the tubes. Oh...congratulations as well!

[SkySailor]

AEROBAT- check your pm's

[Backpacker]

Hi, i just stumbled across this forum, what is the correct transport canada form # for amateur built annual.

thx