Joining circuit VS no circling at MF airport

[AuxBatOn]

Ok, answer me this...

I fly into a MF airport quite regularly, RWY 16/34 with circuits right hand on 34 / left hand on 16. When coming into this airport from the West, where must you join for landing on 16/34? There seems to be some debate amongst pilots at this airport that you CAN join the right base leg on 16/ left base on 34 because you're not flying the circuit or doing a circling approach. The common approach is either to cross over and join the left base on 16 / right base on 34 or just widen it out to join a 5 mile final which makes it straight in on either runway. As far as I can figure out, joining anything on the non-circuit / circling side is NOT allowed. Am I wrong? I'm sure I'm not, but still the debate continues...

You are wrong. Procedures depicted in the AIM are not regulatory. You can join base/final all you want, as long as you have 2-way communication.

[Tiny Tyke]

Aux BAt On,

I have had the same debate at my company. I am interested in what section of the AIM you are basing your info. I always thought you could join whichever way you want as well. How do you know they are not regulatory?? Is that because they are not in the CARS?

It would be nice to put an end to the debate.

tiny

[B-rad]

Here's a link to an AIM reference.

scroll to 4.5.2 note 2.(a)(vi)

(vi) Aerodromes within an MF area when airport advisory information is available: Aircraft may join the circuit pattern straight-in or at 45˚ to the downwind leg or straight-in to the base or final legs (Figure 4.1). Pilots should be alert for other VFR traffic entering the circuit at these positions and for IFR straight-in or circling approaches.

[B-rad]

lol sorry didn't post the link

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/publi ... .htm#4-5-2

[B-rad]

The AIM also references the CARs 602.97

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/regse ... htm#602_97

VFR and IFR Aircraft Operations at Uncontrolled Aerodromes within an MF Area

602.97 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no pilot-in-command shall operate a VFR or IFR aircraft within an MF area unless the aircraft is equipped with radiocommunication equipment pursuant to Subpart 5.

(2) The pilot-in-command of a VFR or IFR aircraft operating within an MF area shall maintain a listening watch on the mandatory frequency specified for use in the MF area.

(3) The pilot-in-command of a VFR aircraft that is not equipped with the radiocommunication equipment referred to in subsection (1) may operate the aircraft to or from an uncontrolled aerodrome that lies within an MF area if

(a) a ground station is in operation at the aerodrome;

(b) prior notice of the pilot-in-command's intention to operate the aircraft at the aerodrome has been given to the ground station;

(c) when conducting a take-off, the pilot-in-command ascertains by visual observation that there is no likelihood of collision with another aircraft or a vehicle during take-off; and

(d) when approaching for a landing, the aircraft enters the aerodrome traffic circuit from a position that will require it to complete two sides of a rectangular circuit before turning onto the final approach path.

[Lurch]

Aux BAt On,

I have had the same debate at my company. I am interested in what section of the AIM you are basing your info. I always thought you could join whichever way you want as well. How do you know they are not regulatory?? Is that because they are not in the CARS?

It would be nice to put an end to the debate.

tiny

Too lazy to find the reference but I got this confirmed straight from TCs mouth.

You can join the circuit from anywhere except from the opposite base when you are VFR, ie if left hand circuits you cannot join from a right base, everywhere else is fair game.

IFR can join from anywhere, you just

must conform to existing traffic

read into that as you want because enforcement will.

Lurch

[B-rad]

Too lazy to find the reference but I got this confirmed straight from TCs mouth.
Lurch

Did you not see the links I posted up there? or did I post too much info to read thru?

[AuxBatOn]

Define opposite base. If I join on a 10 miles "base", am I still on a base leg? What if I join on a 0.5 mile "base"? For the sake of argument, you could be joining on final from these positions.

[Lurch]

Too lazy to find the reference but I got this confirmed straight from TCs mouth.
Lurch

Did you not see the links I posted up there? or did I post too much info to read thru?

I saw, but like I said ,too lazy

[Lurch]

Define opposite base. If I join on a 10 miles "base", am I still on a base leg? What if I join on a 0.5 mile "base"? For the sake of argument, you could be joining on final from these positions.

If you're 10nm out your not in the circuit so you're just joining a 10 mile straight in final

You need to think about a reasonable circuit size, if the circuit has 3 flight school planes and drags the pattern out 5 miles like the normally do, then you can't join from the opposite side 5 miles out. You need to be outside the circuit pattern.

the circuit size isn't dictated anywhere in writing so it all comes down to circumstances of the day and PDM must be used to determine what is safe. If you have doubts cross mid field and join downwind.

Lurch

[B-rad]

Define opposite base. If I join on a 10 miles "base", am I still on a base leg? What if I join on a 0.5 mile "base"? For the sake of argument, you could be joining on final from these positions.

Ya that has been debated before and I think everyone will agree with you. If your smart, you call that you plan to join final from the north/south whatever the case is. Although, from looking at the diagram, I would figure they are hoping you fly over head if your coming from the opposite side or the respective corners that are not on the downwind side. For arguments sake, and in my opinion, if you want to maneuver yourself to join final from the non active side, it should be done outside the zone. Once inside the zone, I think if the diagram is followed then it removes any doubt as to what is expected.

So to answer your question, I would define the opposite base up to the limits of the zone. If your 10 miles out and it's a 5 mile zone, you are not on the opposite base. At .5 mile, you sure are on the opposite base.

[AuxBatOn]

Define opposite base. If I join on a 10 miles "base", am I still on a base leg? What if I join on a 0.5 mile "base"? For the sake of argument, you could be joining on final from these positions.

Ya that has been debated before and I think everyone will agree with you. If your smart, you call that you plan to join final from the north/south whatever the case is. Although, from looking at the diagram, I would figure they are hoping you fly over head if your coming from the opposite side or the respective corners that are not on the downwind side. For arguments sake, and in my opinion, if you want to maneuver yourself to join final from the non active side, it should be done outside the zone. Once inside the zone, I think if the diagram is followed then it removes any doubt as to what is expected.

So to answer your question, I would define the opposite base up to the limits of the zone. If your 10 miles out and it's a 5 mile zone, you are not on the opposite base. At .5 mile, you sure are on the opposite base.

It's airmanship. On a quiet day, no one around, it won't hurt to join "final" from the non-active side close to the runway. On a busy day, probably not the best idea.

[Conquest Driver]

Here's the CARS reference, edited to remove irrelevant parts.

602.96 (1) This section applies to persons operating VFR or IFR aircraft at or in the vicinity of an uncontrolled or controlled aerodrome.

(c) make all turns to the left when operating within the aerodrome traffic circuit, except where right turns are specified by the Minister in the Canada Flight Supplement or where otherwise authorized by the appropriate air traffic control unit;

I generally interpret the circuit and "operating in the vicinity" as 5 NM from the airport. So, if I'm coming in from the "wrong" side, it's a 5 mile turn to final. If I'm coming in from the circuit side it's left or right base as appropriate, as long as I'm not cutting off existing circuit traffic.

[AuxBatOn]

That's an interpretation, and there is nothing black & white. As I said, airmanship prevails.