Mifr or instructor ?

[ontario]

Hi everyone.

I finished my cpl and I don't know what to do now.
I can't pay for both mifr and instructor, I have to make a choice.

My english is not perfect (I'm french native), I live in toronto and I don't want to go to quebec so...

What do you think ?

[Invertago]

Don't need either to . bags... sorry, had to... but seriously...

Instructor if you want to stay south, MIFR if you want to go north.

[loopa]

I don't agree with instructor if he wants to stay south.


The only reason you should get your instructor rating is because you want to teach; if your heart lies with flying charters and from point a to b right from the getgo, you won't enjoy instructor rating. Actually, what will probably happen is that you will start the course, waste a bunch of money and come to realize that it's not for you. Then you will say, oh well I don't have enough money for my MIFR anymore, so let me suck it up and instruct. As a result, you'll probably become an instructor who is only flying for the hours so that you can do your mifr and get the hell out of there.

So you really need to have a passion for teaching if you choose the instructing route; that is, if you want to be fair to your students. Think back to when you were a student and how it would feel if your instructor didn't care about your training needs. Try to make your decision on that level of personal note.

Do some serious research about the positive and negative aspects of both routes and then make an educated decision.

Don't do an instructor rating if the school won't hire you at the end; it's a moo point. You'll be a class 4 instructor who will find it to be pretty hard to find work; especially in today's economy.


Good Luck !

[ontario]

Thank you loopa and invertago to take some time to answer me, I appreciate.

I don't agree with instructor if he wants to stay south.


The only reason you should get your instructor rating is because you want to teach; if your heart lies with flying charters and from point a to b right from the getgo, you won't enjoy instructor rating. Actually, what will probably happen is that you will start the course, waste a bunch of money and come to realize that it's not for you. Then you will say, oh well I don't have enough money for my MIFR anymore, so let me suck it up and instruct. As a result, you'll probably become an instructor who is only flying for the hours so that you can do your mifr and get the hell out of there.!

To be honest, instructor it's not my dream, I am a serious guy so I will do my job seriously but it' not my dream.
Unfortunally I don't know a lot of people here, just people in my shcool.
I asked them to know if they have some advice to give me to get a job in north but no answer.
I looked in internet for...but not answer.
I went to the different aviation shows to talk with pilot about this... but no answer.

In addition my english it's not perfect, my bank account down dramatically and I have no idea where to go...

[mike123]

Get a job, any job, and do your MIFR because you'll have to do it at some point of time in your career anyway.

[Tango01]

Get your MIFR. There is no work for instructors (or very little) I had to make the same decision and chose the Instructor Rating, because I wanted to teach anyway plus it would be a good job for my living situation. 2 months after finishing, still no job and now looking into getting a retail job before I run out of savings. Either way you will spend about the same amount of money, I think the MIFR will open up more doors for you.

As Loopa mentioned, only teach if you want to, not to build up hours. There are too many instructors who do this and bring the standards down.

Good luck

[ontario]

Either way you will spend about the same amount of money, I think the MIFR will open up more doors for you.

The only problem is that takes many more hours than I have to get a first job.
When I see the minumim requirements asked by employers...I'm speechless !

[loopa]

Get your MIFR. There is no work for instructors (or very little) I had to make the same decision and chose the Instructor Rating, because I wanted to teach anyway plus it would be a good job for my living situation. 2 months after finishing, still no job and now looking into getting a retail job before I run out of savings. Either way you will spend about the same amount of money, I think the MIFR will open up more doors for you.

As Loopa mentioned, only teach if you want to, not to build up hours. There are too many instructors who do this and bring the standards down.

Good luck

This is definitely correct; although, I'm not sure if MIFR would open up more doors ? If times were like before when everybody was getting hired then yes ! I wouldn't even bother with the instructor rating; especially when 250 hour wads were waiting for 6 months and then upgrading to a B1900.

But right now, both instructors and low pilot mifr pilot's aren't moving anywhere simply because there isn't MUCH movement at the airlines/regionals. When there's no movement, it's like a bike wheel that has stopped.

However, you said that INSTRUCTING IS NOT YOUR DREAM. That my friend is the indication that you should close the chapter on instruction; don't even think about it. Get a job, get your MIFR and wait for the time where jobs are available again.

I had a friend who was in your situation; recently he took his backpack and is hiking Europe right now. He said that he might as well be away from aviation for a year or so because he's not going to find anything anyway.

Cheers

[Invertago]

I don't agree with instructor if he wants to stay south.

Good Luck !

I was going with the assumption that if he was considering the instructor route it is something he would 'want' to do. Instructing can be a fun gig for a while, but either you're a regulat line instructor and the wages kill you, or you take on more paperwork duties and you get so tired of the BS and want out. I've found that most instructors I've met actually like the teaching side, I still do. I've just had enough of dealing with bored TC paperwork monkeys that waste so much time. Instructing can actually pay ok for the limited hours worked unless you factor in all the TC generated paperwork that eats away at possible revenue time.


Anyhow, back to the topic at hand. Both your MIFR and your Instructor rating will likely expire before you get any use of them in the current economic climate. Try to get yourself a job that will get you a foot in the door somewhere. Try a FBO, clean tow, fuel, toss bags etc for now, save your $. When you start to see jobs for Class 4s go get your class 4, it only takes 2 months (only start it in the late winter early spring though as summer is the busy season to start in)

If you start to see some MIFR FO jobs appear, go get the MIFR, shouldn't take more then a month.

If you must do more training, do a float rating, it won't expire at least. But only if you want to fly floats, we don't need anymore passionless float drivers out there who are only in it for the money

[loopa]

Both your MIFR and your Instructor rating will likely expire before you get any use of them in the current economic climate

I beg to differ; if he has connections chances of getting an instructing job are better. I experienced that.

[Invertago]

Both your MIFR and your Instructor rating will likely expire before you get any use of them in the current economic climate

I beg to differ; if he has connections chances of getting an instructing job are better. I experienced that.

Was that before Fall 2008 when the economy went bust?

[magyar]

If you really want to fly for a living or whatnot, stay in the industry at least, with this you will at least stay within the loop of things and network your way through it. lots of ways you can do this anything from fuel guy to dispatcher...etc...just stick through it and before you know it you will be flying left seat on the space shuttle!

[ontario]

I beg to differ; if he has connections chances of getting an instructing job are better. I experienced that.

It's possible but not sure.
In fact, my parents are canadians but I grown up at geneve (swiss) so in french, and my level in english it's a real problem.

[onuslog]

In this economic climate relying on instructing wages with very difficult, if you even manage to find a job. Based on personal experience with the current instructing game it would be advisable to get the MIFR now and then work some random retail/labour/whatever job to make ends meet (or even get ahead) until the elusive ramp job comes open. However, your own personal requirements maybe something else... just what I would do if I were only entering the game now.

[loopa]

if you're a low timer, both instructing and mifr jobs will pay low.

I have yet to find a 300 hour pilot in Canada making more than 30k.

[Invertago]

In this economic climate relying on instructing wages with very difficult, if you even manage to find a job. Based on personal experience with the current instructing game it would be advisable to get the MIFR now and then work some random retail/labour/whatever job to make ends meet (or even get ahead) until the elusive ramp job comes open. However, your own personal requirements maybe something else... just what I would do if I were only entering the game now.

Ironically I'm going to grab a random job shortly since instructing is dead slow at the moment. Not that I mind the holiday, but time to put something in the bank while I wait for flying to pick up. I faced getting into aviation during the 2001 melt down, took my CPL, put the MIFR on hold and went back to school, got my degree and jumped back into flying as things where picking up again. Now is the time to start getting training / education stuff done off your check list so you can put it on your resume when you shoot for Air Canada.

[Hedley]

*** edited ***

[loopa]

when you shoot for Air Canada

I personally find it depressing that this is
considered the pinnacle of aviation in Canada

Brian Mulroney carved it off from the government,
taking 1/2 million dollar kickbacks for every airbus
delivered (see Karl Heinz Schreiber extradition).

Bobby Milton bankrupted it, ripping off all the shareholders,
and walking away with TWO $10M bonuses for his efforts.

Yuck.

Another BIG FAT PLUS 1 Hedley.

That's what I always try to get across; Air Canada isn't the ONLY place and should definitely not be THEEEEEE final evaluation on your path in Aviation. Although we can't blame people, especially the ones who walk into Flight Colleges. Many flight colleges use ACA as the pinnacle and hence change the entire way their students think about aviation; only until 4 years later when the students find out what the industry really is about.

One should get a degree because they really want to educate them selves, not to impress an employer.... especially one that requires you to have an education other than the one that you really should only need. It's like instructing for the hours... not cool.

[Invertago]

I never said it was the only route or the one you should take, just said it because it is the typical thing most guys starting off are focused on. Personally most AC guys I've seen are old grumps. I'd rather westjet for a friendlier work culture instead. Though I'd be happy at most any 6 figure job since it could support my own recreational flying after work. Any flying job is going to be work, the real fun is getting in your own aircraft and going places you want to go on your own schedule and taking the scenic route.

AC isn't the be-all-end-all, but it is the typical goal for most.

[loopa]

AC isn't the be-all-end-all, but it is the typical goal for most.

And we're saying that it shouldn't be. Why ACA over so many other airlines that Canada has? What's so special about them. Life Style? Well West Jet has that too... so does Can Jet... and plus, they're more honest with their hiring requirements. They don't state 1000 and toss resumes below 4000. They state the number you actually need to have. Plus, if anybody has anything bad to say about you, just because they hate you, you won't even get an interview. Is that fair? no.

[mcrit]

To be honest, instructor it's not my dream, I am a serious guy so I will do my job seriously but it' not my dream.

Not a problem. There is nothing wrong with doing a job that is a stepping stone to someplace else, provided you do your level best at it. With that in mind I'd suggest the instructor rating. Getting an MIFR isn't going to put you into a pilot seat anytime soon, the instructor rating will.
A third option to consider is a float course. You'll get a quicker return on that investment that you will on an MIFR. You will have to get out of southern Ontario to use it, and there will still be some shit to eat on the way, but you'll find it easier to get a job flying floats with low time than flying multi IFR with low time.

[Invertago]

AC isn't the be-all-end-all, but it is the typical goal for most.

And we're saying that it shouldn't be. Why ACA over so many other airlines that Canada has? What's so special about them. Life Style? Well West Jet has that too... so does Can Jet... and plus, they're more honest with their hiring requirements. They don't state 1000 and toss resumes below 4000. They state the number you actually need to have. Plus, if anybody has anything bad to say about you, just because they hate you, you won't even get an interview. Is that fair? no.

It was a stereotype, big red has the largest profile in Canada, when people ask Bush pilots / Instructors do you want to fly commercial some day, they think AC. Young flight students typically think AC, it was a stereotype. Just like when you say fast food, most people think McDonalds. I'm not a big fan of AC myself, their corporate attitude sucks, it is always management vs pilots and crappy management bailed out by government, but what ever, it is where most young guys seem to be set on.

Did you get rejected by AC recently and are bitter or something, seems to be a sensitive subject.

[loopa]

m not a big fan of AC myself, their corporate attitude sucks, it is always management vs pilots and crappy management bailed out by government, but what ever, it is where most young guys seem to be set on.

Seems to me that you would be the one who's rejected by ACA.

And no, i've not been rejected by ACA. I just find it very bitter that so many people set their goals on an airline that isn't all in all the "milestone" that they make it. Similar to what your attitude is towards them.


mcrit, that was a good reply; however, part of being an effective instructor has to do with being able to clearly communicate with your student. If he has language barriers that could be a potential issue.

[Dyski]

I,my friend, am in the same shoes as u except for the language ability.

15 hours left for the CPL and couldn't make the decision, MIFR or IR ...... each one has it's cons and pros.

1-The MIFR means you are almost done paying for the major schooling fees (it has been a ride for me since i paid most of it from work),hopefully for the rest of your life, but even if you go ramp and get a right seat on a turoboprop you will still be hurting for PIC hours for the ATPL or to upgrade to captain in the future !!unless you get lucky with an operator with a diverse fleet of singles and multis.

2-Go the instructing route if u still live with your parents or if u have a partner who's welling to help, you will most likely not make enough $ to cover your bills if you live on your own. unless of course you get on with a school that has a base pay and fair management but i don't believe there are many of those out there,specially in this economy.

I will most likely go do my multi-ifr because I know i will not be able to live on the instructor paycheck for the most part and i am really sick of paying thousands of really hard earned dollars to flight schools that can give a shit about you and what you do !!

Hopefully the MIFR will be done before the spring and then its road trip time, toss bags fuel airplanes or whatever it takes to get my career on track !!

Good luck to you !!

Dyski

[loopa]

In order to understand if TEACHING is for you, I believe that you should ask your CFI to teach ground school. You will quickly be able to determine if instructing is for you. If it's not, save your time, and give people who deserve to be instructing room so that they can do what they love.