Low Flying---Nice but illegal but fun!

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jumperdumper
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Post by jumperdumper »

Why is it not consider reckless when done for a movie or media project but it is when someone is out having a little fun? Thats what drew me to flying, the risk, adrenline, and the skill required to yank and bank through those situtations. I did alot of low flying int he DC3 and Caravair and learned how to stay on top of things at those altitudes. It made me a better pilot.
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Post by cloudrunner »

jumperdumper wrote:Why is it not consider reckless when done for a movie or media project but it is when someone is out having a little fun?
I think the point being made here to a young fella is There is a time and a place.... and it's not in a 150 with 73.2 hours. When your JOB DESCRIPTION takes you down on the deck...fine... but until then you best be staying up where the eagles soar.
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Post by Blue Side Down »

bush pilot wrote: Please explain to me how he has "a way out" in all situations. You even contradict yourself in your own post by saying to watch out for engine failures. what I see is a jack ass flying to low over snow which in some area's is very hard to get depth perception, all I could picture is him catching a wing in the snow and doing a couple of cartwheel's. Seen it before and will see it again. Grow up.
While flying alongside the road, he had both airspeed and a field to land on at all times exept towards the end, when spacing between him and the obstacles at the far end became an issue. The turn at the very end was indeed very foolish - I can think of a few different ways the he could have managed to clip a tree and smear himself into the Finnish countryside.

Flying over the lake he had the frozen surface to use as an obstacle free crash zone. Again, with snow on the surface, the probability of finding yourself inverted when the motion stops is pretty good. That tends to make your next takeoff trickey and might piss off the aircraft owner. My thought, though, is so long as he dosen't kill anybody else or damage anybody's property (land excluded- obviously inevitable) when he does crater in, then he's free to do whatever his ego dictates. Of course, he's also responsible if or when the authorities catch up... or then again he might be a Finnish Air Force jock who's on the right side of the law and can get away with this stuff.

I'm not sure how you find me "contradicting myself". The 'out' (out= a obstacle free surface) is specifically for dealing with the risk of having your engine cut out at an inopportune time. For example, when you're crossing a ridge, you approach at a 45* angle so that if your engine does quit, you aren't committed. Same goes for this low flying game- if you're trimming the treetops over a fairly large forest and you're engine gives it up, you're going to be sleeping with the squirrels. Thus, it's favorable to fly such that you're either over a landable field, or carrying enough airspeed to get over that hedge and into the neighboring field.

As for low flying in general, yes I agree... it is dangerous and immature, as you say. But at the same time it's much like skydiving- it gives a rush that some people enjoy- ringing death's doorbell and then running away. So long as they know that one slip, or one token of bad luck and they're dead (provided they understand death) then they're free to buzz around as they like. This activity has killed people in the past and will continue to do so, it's only a matter of time until the next accident report is published. Mix high speed with low altitude and ignorance, then the results are sure to be spectacular.

Blue Skies
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Post by xduster »

Wow! I cropdusted for years and have gone over and under many power lines (and threw... once! :oops: )and it looks just like that in real life.

It was reckless flying alongside those cars or right next to the ship. With him turning right away over the highway leads me to believe he hasn't had a lot of low flying experience.... Nothing wrong if you want to toss your own plane around and do all that but as long as your not endangering the lives of someone beside or around you.
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Post by Wilbur »

Jumperdumper, your question answers itself. The fact that you don't understand the differences between going out and doing adhoc low flying and working on a carefully planned, prepared and choreographed movie stunt sequence is the reason you should not be doing it.

Blueside, should this guy be allowed to do what he wants as long as he's not putting others at risk; perhaps. But how does he know he's not putting others at risk? He might think he's not, but he doesn't really know because he doesn't have control over these people he's buzzing around. He has no way of knowing how that truck driver will react, and I doubt he's done any planning whatsoever for his irresponsible display of jackass airmanship. Has he explained to his camera carrying passenger all the hazards associated with this type of flying? Probably not because he probably doesn't have a clue himself.
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Post by C-150Pilot »

If anyone wants to bring this guy to TC his name is edit (no names guys) ( Second video). I dont have the time
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Post by Ray-Ban »

150 pilot. You don't have the time to rat on this guy to TC but you have the time to type his name for everyone to see?? Grow up.
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Post by bush pilot »

The last comment of grow up was not directed right at you Blue side down, you had some sensible things to say and I do believe you have a head on your shoulders. However I still do not agree that he had a way out. A way out in my opinion is an alternative that leaves you and your a/c in one piece on the ground without any unnecessary fatalities, so at that I tend not to agree that a crash site is "a way out". Speed and a field he did have, unfortunately altitude was missing in that equation. He does not have time to do anything but panic, even less time if he is a rookie. It was mentioned that the gear is retractable, Therefor 1000ft extra would be a nice thing to have to do about 60 pumps and plan a forced approach as apposed to "I guess this spot right infront of me will do".

I do agree with Wilbur, How does he know that he is not putting anyone else at risk. A kid in the field? a fisherman on the ice and cars on the road to avoid.
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Post by C-150Pilot »

Cheeze your welcome for the vids Ray-Ban
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Post by Cat Driver »

A quote from Wilbur :

" The fact that you don't understand the differences between going out and doing adhoc low flying and working on a carefully planned, prepared and choreographed movie stunt sequence is the reason you should not be doing it. "

Unfortunately Wilbur was correct in a previous post, there is grave dangers in anyone viewing the kind of video that was posted here and thinking that is sure cool. And his comment about ever more rules and regulations are correct and the regulator will only look harder for the mentality who thinks wreckless flying is somehow cool.

As for the movie stunt flying may I explain to you young guys a very simple fact.

To be hired by the movie industry to perform risky manouvers requires a very in depth examination of not only your previous flying experience but a very close examination of your maturity and the ability to understand where dangerous and deadly start to get to close together.

And regardless of who you know in the movie business it all comes down to several insurance underwriters sitting in London England who will decide if you fly for the movie industry or not.

To give you an idea of why they are so paranoid about insuring movie display pilots it is really quite simple...in the last movie we did the liability for the movie crew that we had in the airplane was eighty million dollars not to mention the other coverages that were required.

I can gurantee you that by the time you get to the point in your career that you would be approved to fly for the movie industry "cool " is the last thought that crosses your mind...what you think about is concentrating on pleasing the director without killing yourself doing it....

....the good display pilots can satisfy both the movie directors and the insurance underwriters. Directors are brutal in their demands and underwriters are even more brutal in their requirements, and believe me that takes more than thinking " this is cool "

Hopefully some of you will reflect on what I am trying to tell you and become true professionals. :idea: :D

Cat
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Post by LH »

Simple check-ride for me when I fly with some cowboy who likes to fly low. I talk about the countryside and look out past him through his window or off in his quarter of the windscreen and all of a sudden say "Holy shit, what the hell?" The pilot looks out to see what I'm looking at, I pull the throttle back real quick(while I have MY hands on everrything and the throttle), he turns back real quick with an "oh shit" look on his face and I immediately ask him "Engine just quit....where you gonna put this piece of metal?" The answer is usually "Geez, I can't see any place that I could make right now....guess I better get some more altitude"......with a stupid grin on his face.

You know the area REAL well, where all the towers are, all the lines of any description and numerous trees on a first-name basis and if you don't, then you keep your ass high enough so that if the feces hits the osscillating air conditioner you have "an OUT". You do otherwise and you need a lobotomy. For over 2 years I had to fly at low altitude and I mean LOW, as in "nap-of-the-earth" every day whether I wanted to or not and I knew ALL swamps, fields of any kind, roads, lake shore lines and lakes with shallow ends and where the smallest timber/bush was on my route. Ask me how "cool" and "exciting" that was. Ya, it was all fine until the first time a large eagle appeared RIGHT NOW in my windscreen and I had to turn one way or the other........BUT WHICH WAY?.......because if he turned the same way, I had a new co-pilot and I can't fly shit if I got my face covered in blood, flesh and can't see..
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Post by looproll »

If anyone wants to bring this guy to TC his name is Edited Name Out ( Second video). I dont have the time
TC enforcing in another country? I don't think so. God help us!
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Post by xduster »

Wilbur wrote
The fact that you don't understand the differences between going out and doing adhoc low flying and working on a carefully planned, prepared and choreographed movie stunt sequence is the reason you should not be doing it.
I have to agree fully. I always inspected every field i sprayed for any obstacles that were in and around the area, even if i had sprayed it two weeks earlier.....it's amazing what obstacles can be put up in a couple of weeks since you've been there....

http://www.headlandaviation.com/images/PA230116.JPG

there used to be a roadsign in that wing.... a lesson my friend learned

Did he have a safe way out if his engine quit? I don't think he "planned" ahead in case it did quit. When i went to a field to work you look around to see where you can go if the fan in front does quit. I have had an engine failure at the end of spray run doing 130mph and i can tell you that it doesn't leave you a lot of time. Only got up to about a 150ft before reaching my glide speed of 80 and you fall outta the sky like a rock. Nothing at all for glide, not even close to the glide when you practice forced approches with the engine at idle. Thank god i had great "crop duster training" and was able to walk away...
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Last edited by xduster on Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jaques Strappe »

That was phu*@ing hilarious!!!!.......LMAO :D :D :D

Another quality post!
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Post by Blue Side Down »

Wilbur wrote:Blueside, should this guy be allowed to do what he wants as long as he's not putting others at risk; perhaps. But how does he know he's not putting others at risk? He might think he's not, but he doesn't really know because he doesn't have control over these people he's buzzing around. He has no way of knowing how that truck driver will react, and I doubt he's done any planning whatsoever for his irresponsible display of jackass airmanship. Has he explained to his camera carrying passenger all the hazards associated with this type of flying? Probably not because he probably doesn't have a clue himself.
I had this really cool response typed up, but then I hit backspace when the text box wasn't selected and lost it all... doh.

The jist of it was that I agree with you on all points. The exact same thoughts (minus the fact that he may not see how his actions endanger the drivers' lives- excellent point) did go through my head while I was watching the clip.

I'm also especially curious as to what sort or pre-flight breifing his cameraman did get. If the cm was given the impression that this as safe as a rollercoaster, then there was some serious misinformation dispensed.

For those interested to find out what can happen when seconds count: http://www.airviolence.com/request.php?93 It's a sobering watch, but a learning experience none the less. If anybody feels that this is out of taste, les me know, I'll remove it... but I think we (especially the inexperienced) all too often forget this aspect of flight.[/url]
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Post by mental vomit »

Cat Driver wrote:A quote from Wilbur :

Unfortunately Wilbur was correct in a previous post, there is grave dangers in anyone viewing the kind of video that was posted here and thinking that is sure cool.

Cat

Cat, naturally your post is well received and I am sure you've seen enough kids plant themselves into solid objects doing silly things. I appreciate the "don't try this at home" post because you're right, it's a one way trip to the hurt locker.

But if I hired an experienced stunt pilot to fly that same video in a controlled scenario and gave out a nice bowl of popcorn to watch it with, wouldn't most people think it was kind of neat, if not cool? The young 'uns will always be that way, as long as people let them know the stove is hot, MOST of them shouldn't get burned.

So I don't have a problem with individuals appreciating the sheer novelty of things like that, as long as they realise the stupidity in it.

I just saw something shiny float by my window, gotta scoot.
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Post by CH124 Driver »

Crazy stuff.

I have no problem with low flying, as long as it's properly pre-briefed. We do it all the time in the CF, in Moose Jaw you fly 240kt ground speed @ 500ft in the Harvard, the Hawks do their low level nav at 250ft at 420kts. Helicopter school we do nav at 250ft and operationally, we do it way lower. Sea Kings fly 40ft over the water while photographing ships and the winners of the "who can fly lowest" contest are the TacHel guys doing their nav at 15ft.

It's all done in prescribed low level areas or on prescribed low level routes. I wouldn't even think about doing it in an unfamiliar area, even if I knew the area I'd want wire strikes on my helo or a bang seat in my aircraft in the event of an engine flame out.

Oh and for the record, that video that Blue Side Down posted with the Sea King crash, that was vortex ring state, not an engine failure. VRS can happen to any and all helos if you meet the conditions for it to happen.

Anyways, does anybody know the song in the second video, the one with the idiot flying under the wires?
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Post by DA900 »

CH124 Driver

The song is a remake of Steve Winwood's "call on me"
It was redone by Eric Prydz here is a link to the video, but before warned this video is about as close to X-rated as you can get. With that said I wish to join this aerobic class...enjoy

http://www.big-boys.com/articles/callonme.html

:smt103
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Post by CH124 Driver »

DA900 wrote:CH124 Driver

The song is a remake of Steve Winwood's "call on me"
It was redone by Eric Prydz here is a link to the video, but before warned this video is about as close to X-rated as you can get. With that said I wish to join this aerobic class...enjoy

http://www.big-boys.com/articles/callonme.html

:smt103
Awesome, thanks. That video kind of reminds me of Satisfaction by Benni Benassi.

The last minute or so is the best, girls in bikinis using jackhammers, need I say more?

http://azad814.tripod.com/satisfaction.html
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Post by Snagmaster E »

Hey, I 've done low flying on sight seeing flights (bout 50 feet) but I know I didn't break the regs. Stayed 500' feet away and within gliding distance (I was next to the shore, below a cliff line. Main thing was I kept my speed up, because the way I saw it, the only place to go, if something looked wrong, was up. trade speed for altitude.

But I'd never do shit like that. Not my cup of tea.

Just my OP.
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