Is There Movement?

[E-Flyer]

Is there movement? I'm at least seeing a few job ads being posted for pilots / week. This is much better than going for months without any.


What do you guys think?

[SkyWolfe]

Personally, I think it is slow. Also from what I heard, at least in YVR, things are not moving well at all. Postings are mostly going internally.

Cheers,

Wolfie

[21_gun_salute]

Wolfie is right. Been trying to get out of where I am right now. Got recommended to different companies by quite a few friends, and the only respons I am getting is "sorry, we are only promoting from within at this time" or they are not hiring at all. I'm not sure I get it though. Why is it that 2 years ago guys on the ramp were getting the shaft from 1000hr guys coming from outside, and now seems like most companies are only hiring from within??? I am happy for the rampies that are puting the time out there, but why has this seem to have changed?? Might be wrong, but it's the impression that I am getting. Makes me wonder...

21GS

[HORUNNER]

Maybe companies are relizing that these rampies are on the way out if they dont advance them soon and hey they have put in more then their share of time to be able to get in the air now.
And now you will see more adds for ramp jobs, my guess is that when the music starts playing again the new guys will move faster into the right seat too.
just what I think

[Sam300]

I have heard similar responses(not hiring right now) but most have not even replied. Hope the music starts playing soon.

[ScudRunner]

Wolfie is right. Been trying to get out of where I am right now. Got recommended to different companies by quite a few friends, and the only respons I am getting is "sorry, we are only promoting from within at this time" or they are not hiring at all. I'm not sure I get it though. Why is it that 2 years ago guys on the ramp were getting the shaft from 1000hr guys coming from outside, and now seems like most companies are only hiring from within??? I am happy for the rampies that are puting the time out there, but why has this seem to have changed?? Might be wrong, but it's the impression that I am getting. Makes me wonder...

21GS

Perhaps Ill shed some light on the why of your statement.

When times are good experienced pilots move from companies at a higher rate, these position's require a certain level of experience. F/O that are ready to be upgraded will be, however it takes time to properly line indoc them and train them up to be signed off to fly with the line F/O's. Direct hire's with experience fill these position fairly quickly with little expense and time to the company.

These days because pilots move on at a slower rate a company has time to get the next inline f/o ready for his captain ride etc and the resulting move up the ladder for the rampy to move to the right seat to start his seasoning.

Imagine a ladder to a roof where the guy at the top steps on to the roof and you all take an orderly step up, when their is hiring all over imagine several ladders all close to each other, the guy in the middle jumps to a faster moving ladder the guy at the top jumps to the roof while another takes his spot the guy below him climbs over him and off to the shinier ladder as oppose you the rampy waiting your turn just to get on to a ladder then your buddy on the ramp runs over to a smaller ladder with room on the bottom step.

Fair or not that's the way it works there is nothing fair about it especially at the bottom.

Word of Caution though be careful with those 1000 hour guys that you see as shafting you, they paid their due's somewhere and you will do the same thing sooner or later.

[tons-o-fun]

Don't believe everything you hear on Avcanada. There is some movement in the industry. I for one just got hired with less then a 1000hrs and a fresh IFR ticket flying a twin-engine turboprop F/O. At the same time as me 2 other people were hired at various flying positions/experience. My advice is if you have close to the min req's try,try,try and don't give up looking or sending out resume's. Something will come up. The only good part about this "slow down" is that people with fairly decent time making minimum instructor wages are getting sick of waiting around looking for a job and are onto another career. I have seen this first hand in more then one case. As a result the guys willing to stick it out through these times will hopefully be rewarded when things pick up. If i had read and took to heart everything in this forum i would have run for the hills as well. It is a shame, it would be nice to have a little support and motivation from people in the industry but they choose the later and make themselves feel good like they've been through so much a noone else is worthy. It isn't that bad out there. Good Luck!

[21_gun_salute]

thanks .

I see what you're saying, makes sense. BTW I never said I was getting shafted by anybody. I'm actually that 1000hr guy looking for something else. I'm not complaining though. Even if it would be nice to move on to something else I actually think companies should promote from within whenever they can. I personnaly don't think it's right to have some guy work for a company and never promote him. Especially when said company told you you would be upgrading within x number of months to a flying position. I never worked the ramp, but had some friends who got the shaft. Anyways, got luck to everyone in these though times.

[Sam300]

Don't believe everything you hear on Avcanada. There is some movement in the industry. I for one just got hired with less then a 1000hrs and a fresh IFR ticket flying a twin-engine turboprop F/O. At the same time as me 2 other people were hired at various flying positions/experience. My advice is if you have close to the min req's try,try,try and don't give up looking or sending out resume's. Something will come up. The only good part about this "slow down" is that people with fairly decent time making minimum instructor wages are getting sick of waiting around looking for a job and are onto another career. I have seen this first hand in more then one case. As a result the guys willing to stick it out through these times will hopefully be rewarded when things pick up. If i had read and took to heart everything in this forum i would have run for the hills as well. It is a shame, it would be nice to have a little support and motivation from people in the industry but they choose the later and make themselves feel good like they've been through so much a noone else is worthy. It isn't that bad out there. Good Luck!

Good to see a positive post, I'll keep sending out the resumes and something is sure to shake loose. Thanks

[marcorivera16]

I think we have to keep trying, as somebody wrote here, you can not give up, there is always something waiting for us.

[ScudRunner]

Don't give up guys and gals I got my CPL just before 9/11 and was able to find a job pounding a 207 around the arctic the following spring. Right now may not be the best time but come spring it will be a different story, the trickle of jobs posted now is a good sign. I believe this spring there will be opportunity out there for all who are willing to move around, if your in the 416 or 604 area code its not going to land on your lap your going to have to move.

[loopa]

if your in the 416 or 604 area code its not going to land on your lap your going to have to move.

That's normally the case anyway.

[dannyjet]

It´s good to see someone writing motivating things, just like tons-o-fun did.

I´m an under 500tt pilot and haven´t been able to get my first break. Unfortunately I don´t know many people in the industry in Canada so my networking is pretty poor, and this was because I was out of the country for about a year right after I finished my training. I´m hoping the spring will be much better, hopefully for the Alberta area.

I don´t even have a list of aviation companies. I only use the ones found at the pilot career center´s website. Is that good enough?

Cheers,

[Phileas Fogg]

If you still dont have a job in early spring then I would suggest showing up at a smaller, northern/float operators door and not leaving until they give you a job. Try to hang around and show your face a lot - I bet eventually they'll hire you or find someone else who will.


If you have to show up sometimes with beers than @#$! it...do it! Everyone's heard of resumes that have been sent to Borek attached to a bottle of liquor and they got hired - its true. Do whatever you need to do, cause it can be a tough industry to crack and the squeaky wheel gets the grease. (side note: do what you need to do but don't work for free)

It doesnt seem like as many people do that stuff anymore, but the ones that do really seem to get work.

Its like the road trip doesnt work as well anymore - you have to stay in a town to beg and bribe. Sucks for sure.

[dannyjet]

Yea, good advice Phileas, thanks.

I´m saving money for a car to do a roadtrip, or maybe rent one of the planes at the flight school and fly up there to them. Sending CV´s and phone really doesn´t cut it at all, specially during these times.

[ScudRunner]

Do you have Airmiles or anything like that which can be converted into Free Gas for a road trip.

I gave some advice on here before, Basically in a nut shell put all your flying training on one of those Airmiles Mastercards to get the points obviously avoid at all cost keeping any debt on it and pay it off every month with your student line of credit or loan at the end of your training you should have enough free gas vouchers to make a decent road trip to Northern Ontario or wherever the work is as well as a healthy credit score.

[Johnny#5]

Also maybe try an organization that finds drivers to ferry vehicles large distances....you agree to ferry a car to another province and the gas is paid - usually all other expenses too. On the way, hit up operators - only problem is that you cant really stay; you'd have to deliver the car then return.

I ferried a vehicle for a car rental company once - it was a 16 hour drive and the gas was paid but thats it. Still worked out well for me.

[canpilot]

Yes and no.

Movement is limited. However, if you are at the right place at the right time you will luck out. Gone are the days of sending out a resume and getting a call back in 24-72 hours. You need to work for it now! (Maybe this will change)

..,

I'm with you on your prediction that the 416/ 604 will be slow. Lots of 703/704/705's who have already experienced poor load factors/ cargo loads will have the economic losses of the olympics to contend with this winter. FTU's will also be closed for up to three months this winter.. sending hungry instructors running. Also, not to mention, I've heard Kemess will be closing within the next year or so. I don't know if this will spell more layoffs for a certain operation in YVR. (I hope not)

GET OUT OF THE 604!

[traveller1982]

I have over 2000 hours and I have been out of work for over a year. However I just landed a gig after what seemed like a loosing battle. So basically the lesson of my story is that you can never give up! I sent over 300 applications and emails, made countless phone calls and shook many hands in the process. It has been a rough year for many but I am proof that eventually things will get better so keep trying!

[comspazz]

I'm in the same boat, 2500+ ( only 200 multi though), ATPL in hand, Canadian and EU passports, Person Responsible for Maintenance experience and management experience as well. I've applied for every job posted in the last 12 months and applied to every operator from AC down to FTUs from coast to coast and the north pole to the US border. I have also applied to every non-rated pilot job, posted in the world and the only thing i have to show for it is a few "thank you for applying" emails and phone calls.

Sorry if i sound negative, some times you just need to talk to keep yourself going when you think you're going no-where.

I'm still keeping the faith but man it sucks being at the bottom looking up.

Glad to see some people getting work and moving up. congrats!

[macbainz1]

well just recently I've seen more job posts that there have been.. yeah hopefully it was just keep on increasing.