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I am Birddog wrote: I'm not sure why they sent this age old drawing up? Actually I do I just wonder if anyone else does. Yes this is a quiz...
Frank Borman was an Apollo 8 Astronaut. I am not certain what his exact role was in the mission.I am Birddog wrote: a) Is Borman a Russian delegate? If not, what connection does he have to have an open line to the Soviets back then??
I made an error. The tapes reveal that Luna 15 made a rapid course change toward the eagle after it touched down, and subsequently crash landed on the surface. The apollo 11 narration in the background of the Luna narration.I am Birddog wrote: b) Where are these transmission tapes intercepted from Luna15? AND is there any distance telemetry data to back up that these Apollo 11 transmissions were made from the moon's surface to earth and NOT from the Earth's orbit to the Moon?
They were buried in the archives until astronomers at Jodrell Bank started researching material to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the Moon landings.
In July 1969 the telescopes at Jodrell Bank were tracking the American's Eagle Lander carrying astronauts onto the surface of the Moon.
At the same time Jodrell Bank scientists were also tracking the unmanned Soviet spacecraft Luna 15, which was trying to land on the Moon, collect samples of lunar soil and rock and then return to Earth to scoop the US Apollo 11 mission.
The data captured by the Lovell radio telescope revealed this rocket orbited the Moon and crash-landed onto its surface at 15:50 on 21st July - just a few hours before the Americans lifted off from the Moon's surface.
In the newly released recordings, which were made over three days in mid-July of 1969, Sir Bernard Lovell - founder of the Jodrell Bank Observatory and the man behind the famous Lovell radio telescope - can be heard narrating events. Transmissions from the Apollo 11 astronauts can also be heard in the background.
Sir Bernard notes a change in the orbit of Luna 15 to take it closer to the US landing site and later reports a rumour from a 'well-informed source in Moscow' that the craft is about to land.
People in the Control Room can then be heard exclaiming 'it's landing' and 'it's going down much too fast' as they track Luna 15's final moments before it crashes.
I'll get back to you, that's a tough one.I am Birddog wrote: c) Is there ANY Russian news article or whatever else from the Soviets space program confirming they shared information with the Amricans regarding the LAT&LONG of Luna15 in order NOT to colide with Apollo11???
I KNOW!!!!Topspin wrote:I am Birddog wrote: c) Is there ANY Russian news article or whatever else from the Soviets space program confirming they shared information with the Amricans regarding the LAT&LONG of Luna15 in order NOT to colide with Apollo11???
I'll get back to you, that's a tough one.
...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... 6948/pg_2/On July 18, a day after lunar orbit insertion, Luna 15 made the first of several maneuvers, changing from the original orbit of 133 by 286 km, 45 degrees, to one 94 by 220 km, 126 degrees. On July 19, 25th orbit, it maneuvered again, descending to 85 km.
July 20, orbit 29, 16 km by 109, 127 degrees, period 114 minutes. The periselene (the lowest point in a lunar orbit) is directly over the anticipated Apollo landing site in the Sea of Tranquility.
The radio observatory at Jodrell bank late the same day reports that Luna 15 is so low in its orbit that it would crash into a lunar peak if the orbit were not altered soon.
Then, July 20 by some sources, and July 21 by others, Luna 15 descended to the Sea of Crisis, into silence.
The apparent crash was spin-doctored by the Kremlin, downplaying it with typical Soviet arrogance. The official word was the probe was launched to return a sample of the lunar surface to the Earth, far more safely and inexpensively than the brash American venture.
In terms of celestial mechanics – the mathematical science of orbits and trajectories – the touchdown point in the Sea of Crisis was ideal for relaunching a craft from the Moon to return to a landing spot on Earth within the Soviet Union. So why maneuver Luna 15 to virtually graze the Sea of Tranquility? What purpose could be served, save tweaking the nose of the United States?
From these facts one could imagine an utterly stunning propaganda victory – dropping a lone cosmonaut to the Moon at the exact place his American competitors would be landing a few hours later.
It would stagger the imagination of the world.
In my eyes, beyond the laser experiment, the existence of hundreds of people like this kind of destroys the entire conspiracy argument.On July 18, Tass reported that both Luna 15 and Apollo 11 were orbiting the moon. And while there was still no official announcement about the purpose of Luna 15's flight, Izvestia, the official government newspaper; gave a big hint when it said: "It is evident that in scientific terms the landing of a man on the moon provides less than unmanned automatic stations can provide."
SPACE RACE'S LAST LAP
On July 19, Luna 13 was just 10 miles from the moon's surface. There was clearly a sense of competition in the Soviet Union, because the Tass announcement came only minutes before Apollo 11's lunar lander detached from the lunar orbiter and headed for the surface of the moon.
The competition ended on the morning of July 21, Moscow time (the evening of July 20 in the eastern U.S.), when the Americans' first moonwalk occurred and the world heard Neil Armstrong say as he stepped onto the moon's surface: "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind."
That evening the Soviets cryptically announced that Luna 15 had reached the surface of the moon and its work had "ended." In other words, it had crashed. To the Soviets' credit, Russian TV did show coverage of the moon walks by Armstrong and Aldrin at least three times on July 21.
James F. Clarity, my Times colleague in Moscow, reported that a young woman on the street gave a thumbs up when asked about the moon landing, and many other ordinary Russians shared the world's sense of accomplishment. The Soviet Union offered official praise. Pravda, the Communist Party paper, put it on the front page, and for a day or two, there was a pleasant truce in the Cold War.
After a few days' rest we started preparations for microwave monitoring of Apollo communications. My radio astronomy friends had mounted a 9 meter dish on its mount a week before. The antenna is placed at the old radio observatory of the University of Florida near a little lake, Biven's Arm, outside Gainesville. The servo-mount is a piece of space history in its own right. It was used at Cape Canaveral in the beginning of the sixties to steer a command antenna for the first communications satellite Telstar!
The attempts to tune Apollo 17 was the first test of the 9 meter dish after its installation at Biven's Arm. The aluminum dish is Air Force surplus equipment. In the focus of the dish a feed antenna is placed to "illuminate" the surface of the parabola. The feed is a 30 cm by 10 cm cylinder and is only sensitive to left hand circular polarized radio waves. Its SWR is 1.2 over a 200 MHz range around 2300 MHz (S-band).
The signal from the feed was supplied to a tunnel diode pre-amp for S-band. This unit, the most critical item of the whole receiving system, had a 3 dB noise figure and enough gain to overcome the cable loss of the inch-thick coax cable that brought the signal from the dish to the listening post in a shed 25 meters away. In this shed the rest of the equipment was located.
The receiver used for tuning the Apollo frequency 2287.5 MHz was a Motorola unit - surplus from the Apollo program itself. Only the local oscillator and the first mixer was used. The IF of the first mixer at 50 MHz was fed to a Vanguard Electronics Labs converted which brought this frequency down to 30 MHz. The final demodulation was done with a Collins R-390 shortwave receiver tuned to 30 MHz.
Voice signals from Apollo are frequency modulated on 1.25 MHz subcarrier, and by sidetuning the Collins receiver 1.25 MHz the voice signals were made available for demodulation. This could be done in two ways. The simplest method was of course slope detection with a 16 kHz bandwidth in the 455 kHz IF of the R-390. The other variant involved taking the 455 kHz IF out of the R-390 and feeding it into a narrow-band FM detector.
The dish can be steered with a 1o accuracy and the beamwidth at 2300 MHz is about 2o. But the Moon subtends only an angle of 0.5o in the sky. Pointing the antenna was therefore somewhat of a problem. Of course one could calculate where the Moon is supposed to be, but fortunately the weather was fine so the Moon was fully visible even during daytime. One person placed himself behind the dish and directed the operator in the shed with hand signals until the antenna was pointing at the Moon. After the signal was acquired the position of the dish had to be corrected towards maximum signal strength every 4 minutes.
On December 10, 1972 we picked up our first signals on S-band. The main carrier was 45 dB over noise and the voice subcarrier was 25 dB over noise. Apollo 17 passed. over the lunar disc between 1722 and 1819.10 local time (2222-2319 UT), and we measured a total Doppler frequency shift of 43 kHz. The next day the lunar module landed on the Moon and at 1518 local time we picked up main carrier and telemetry from the surface of the moon some 80 minutes after touchdown. Unfortunately the astronauts soon changed to low power which prevented us from getting voice signals because of the too low signal-to-noise ratio. The lunar module transmitted on 2282.5 MHz, but we decided to shift back to the frequency of the command module in lunar orbit, i.e. 2287.5 MHz. The lone astronaut Evans was not very talkative except when he just appeared in front of the Moon or just before he disappeared behind it. At such times he changed to high power and on December 11 we could pick up our first voice signals from the Moon. At 1722.00 local time (2222 UT) Ron Evans said: "'Standby three zero" and at l722.30, i.e. 30 seconds later, we abruptly lost the signal as the spacecraft swung, around the edge of the Moon.
The following day, December12, we concentrated on the command module and received strong voice signals on several occasions (Here [10 kB, mp3] you can hear Ron Evans say: "The barber pole it is grey", referring to a barber pole-shaped control panel indicator). We also had an opportunity to test different FM detectors. To our great surprise slope detection worked amazingly well. When using this mode the receiver is slightly detuned so that the FM signal is placed on one of the slopes of the a selectivity curve of the receiver. In this way FM is converted to AM which is heard in the loudspeaker. When using slope detection the R-390 was operated with 16 kHz bandwidth to avoid resetting the main tuning too often because of Doppler shift.
"there is a government within a government that I can't control" -Bill ClintonAuxBatOn wrote:My question to you is :
Don't you think that 40 years later, someone would have said something about the hoax? Plus, maybe the data wasn't readily available to everyone back then, but it would be today. Heck, we can get historical data from WW1.
THAT is the biggest most valued question of this thread.istp wrote:How the hell did this make 5 pages?
A person on the motherf$cking moon!mag check wrote:What's that picture supposed to show?
I didn't read the entire post just the first half or so, and I will respond to a few points.Dash-Ate wrote:read this quote
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1.Take, for example, the rather fanciful notion that the United States landed men on the Moon in the late 1960's and early 1970's. That's the kind of lie we're talking about here: the kind that seems to defy logic and reason
2.The first thing that I discovered was that the Soviet Union, right up until the time that we allegedly landed the first Apollo spacecraft on the Moon, was solidly kicking our ass in the space race. It wasn’t even close.
3.The Soviets launched the first orbiting satellite, sent the first animal into space, sent the first man into space, performed the first space walk, sent the first three-man crew into space, was the first nation to have two spacecraft in orbit simultaneously, performed the first docking maneuver in space, and (allegedly) landed the first unmanned probe on the Moon.
4.Their astronauts had logged five times as many hours in space as had ours. And they had a considerable amount of time, money, scientific talent and, perhaps most of all, national pride riding on that goal.
Well, it certainly would look that way at first glance, but I would say there are many discrepancies with it, and it could easily be argued as proof against man actualy being there.Guido wrote:A person on the motherf$cking moon!mag check wrote:What's that picture supposed to show?
Yeah, everyone know they only brought one camera. And since you can see it sitting on the ground below the nozzle...mag check wrote:Well, it certainly would look that way at first glance, but I would say there are many discrepancies with it, and it could easily be argued as proof against man actualy being there.
Here's another picture for you, my suspicious little doubting friend.mag check wrote: Well, it certainly would look that way at first glance, but I would say there are many discrepancies with it, and it could easily be argued as proof against man actualy being there.
So you choose to believe in an event that was witnessed by only a small handfull of people, eh? In a remote area? 106 years ago? Attested by a telegram written by the very guys who stood the to gain the most? And the picture was not faked? No chance of a conspiracy? And you're sure you're not being a bit gullible on that one? Sure.mag check wrote:No, I believe that is a real photo of the wright brothers first powered flight, and it was not just made to look like a flight. ...
Yeah, that's it, like those ones.BTD wrote:Like these ?
No, there are not.mag check wrote:Well, it certainly would look that way at first glance, but I would say there are many discrepancies with it, and it could easily be argued as proof against man actualy being there.Guido wrote:A person on the motherf$cking moon!mag check wrote:What's that picture supposed to show?
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