Teaching ADF tracking

chewsta · Post by **chewsta** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:30 pm

I hate the ADF with a passion. It is the only instrument to ever cause me grief. Anyhow, I have my instrument rating, but now I am writing lesson 24.

My question is how many people teach drift correction inbound and outbound differently? ie Using the head inbound and the tail outbound.

I personally find it easier if everything is referenced to the head inbound and outbound to keep the rules constant.

FA28 guy · Post by **FA28 guy** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:42 pm

Head inbound tail outbound gets my vote

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:47 pm

It has always been thus.

What you must remember is the ADF is a very inacurate means of doing approaches..try and think if it as a simple relative position guide.

Soon thankfully they will decommission and get rid of ADF's

However forty years ago it was our only method of doing approaches in most places in the north and after a while it becomes simple.....

But I can symphatize with your frustration...

Cat

Apache64_ · Post by **Apache64_** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:02 pm

I hate to tell you this chewsta, youre going to have to know both methods, after teaching commercial and ifr some students get it one way others get it the other way. And then never ask a student to explain it to you...they will blow you away with some answers even if they are correct they come up with some doozies.

Tail to desired and beyond = outbound
Head to desired and beyond = inbound
Almost forgot "go to the head to get head" always worked for me on the direction to turn

works well but which ever suits you is the way you should write it for lesson 24 as it is you who has to teach it on your ride should you need to.

Then when you get to teach it make sure you remember both methods

Cheers

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:13 pm

Boy am I ever out of my depth in this discussion.

I've been doing ADF approaches for over forty years and haven't a clue about all these mantras used in teaching......

I better find another topic.

Cat

Louis · Post by **Louis** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:37 pm

Here's a little java program that helps me out visualize prior to sim exercises, might also be of use to your students:

http://www.visi.com/~mim/nav/

chewsta · Post by **chewsta** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:35 am

Thanks for input. Louis, that program is awesome. Let's you focus on the NAV whereas running a flight sim you're too busy flying and actually have to set up the stations.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:31 am

"Push the head, pull the tail" or "the head falls, the tail raises" that’s how I remember it and taught it.

All that mental math is nice to know for written exams, but has little use in the real world. If you have an RMI - Push the head/pull tail is all you really need. A fixed card requires more patience and practice, as dose learning to track it.
Try to get your students to visualize your ADF needle over your HI.

lets say your tracking to a station, look at your heading, look at the ADF needle....if the head of the needle is left of where you want it - push it back (turn left beyond the head, so the head is on the other side on the center mark in the instrument) the head will then fall towards your proper track.

When teaching PGI on how to use it, I would set up an NDB station in the middle of the room, with an attached piece of string in your hand and a compass rose. Model airplane in hand (with compass and string), point it at the station and ask what the NDB needle should be doing. Then give them your AC’s heading and ask what track there on. Simple -whatever heading they are flying. they can see it with the use of string and compass rose. Give them many scenarios inbound and outbound. Use a fan to simulate winds and drift the model AC and show what it does to your tracking. This will help them visualize what is happening.

A little hint for fixing a really bad NDB approach, No matter how bad the students tracking is, if they cross OVER the beacon (no matter how off there tracking was) and turn to there inbound heading at beacon passage, it instantly gets you back on track.

Also, teach them to get down to MDA now!!! they want to be level at MDA looking for the runway at least a mile back.....not hitting MDA over the threshold.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:59 am

K.A.G.:

N2 · Post by N2 » Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:30 am

And I always thought that ADF stood for All Done Flying!

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:54 am

King Air Guy: That sounds like the B. Ford recovery method on the approach. Am I right?

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:21 am

I know burt, but no. I learned that from Perimeter.

Big Pistons Forever · Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:18 pm

The only way to do a NDB approach IMHO

Step 1 Select overlay app on GPS

Step 2 Fly approach in folowing order of priority

a: Radar Vectors to final
b: Direct To, to the IF
c: Full procedure

Step 3 Moniter the ADF needle. Marvel at the way it flops around while y you are tracking the in bound track perfectly.

Step 4 When you break out perfectly aligned with the runway,
revel in better living through high technology

survivor · Post by **survivor** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:52 pm

The way I look at ADF, you are always on the tail of the needle. You can visualize, that if you need to move the tail right you go right if left you go left. It works with both, inbound and outbound. Could it be any simpler?

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:36 pm

Cat Driver - in one of yor previos threads you had a pet name for an NDB approach, I believe you called it a relative position instrument or something like that. In actual fact it is more like a PPR. Pilot Population Reducer but truthfully, don't you almost get an erection when the night is dark, windy and cold and you manage to crank the old coffee grinder to a faint squeal and split the runway centerline. I mean you can almost teach a monkey to fly an ILS but it take a pilot, dumb and stupid to be doing this shit, but a pilot no less, to actually shoot an NDB approach properly.
The Kingair 350 I fly has EFIS and FMS and every other alphabet but when the ADF's quit, that was too much. I complained and company spent a fortune fixing them.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:12 pm

Oldtimer:

Yeh...

Austin Airways.....125 to 150 hours a month Timmins to Cape Dorset and every community in between, DC3's and PBY"s in every kind of weather day after day after day....after night after night.........month after month..year after year.......................

All ADF approaches....and yup we slpit the center line quite regularly....

Oh another thing I never learned all the five or whatever T's to get it all together.

Cat