Don't know, didn't stick around long enough to find out!Doc wrote:Shimmy...does Wasaya still require bonds for re-rides and upgrades? Bloody bandits!
Thunder is Hiring
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shimmydampner
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Space ship 2.
I have 1300 tt and 475 MPIC,
its not unheard of, the guy I fly with has only been in the industry for 8 months and is at 800 tt 300 Multi, when he gets his 1000 tt he will go captain and presto, he'll have his 500 PIC by the time he is at 1500.
Having those requirements are not unheard of, Voyageur Airlines also has these, they are the requirements that the MOH contracts requires.
I have 1300 tt and 475 MPIC,
its not unheard of, the guy I fly with has only been in the industry for 8 months and is at 800 tt 300 Multi, when he gets his 1000 tt he will go captain and presto, he'll have his 500 PIC by the time he is at 1500.
Having those requirements are not unheard of, Voyageur Airlines also has these, they are the requirements that the MOH contracts requires.
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Flying Newf
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I think those other airlines just make you sign a bond not pay up front. Big Difference!!confuzed wrote:However, a good portion of these "entry level" companies like Thunder, Bearskin, NAC, Voyageur do. It's all about what stage you're at I guess you could say and how that niche of the industry works.
And that Niche might work for you, but it’s still unacceptable. You will probably understand this once you break up with Marta the blow up sheep and move out of you parent’s basement!
Good luck.
Hindsight is 20/20!!!!
Confuzed:
What would you have done if the company where you paid your training bond went bankrupt. Would you be preaching that training bonds are such a good thing? Btw thanks for helping with the fact that you are trying to change the industry for the worse. If you are all for that, please quit the industry and take up something else. We don't want you in our industry. Did you even suggest a promissary note to your employer before handing over money or did you just have tunnel vision thinking that handing over the money was a fast track to big red. If you have the idea in your head that training bonds are the way of the future I wonder what else you would sacrifice as well. Pay too? I partially blame to companies for implementing training bonds but in the end I blame pilots more for accepting them. I have never signed a training bond and never will. A fact I am happy about. At least I can look at myself in the mirror and have some self respect about that. Now go ahead and try and slag me all you want. Say whatever it is that will make you feel justified in signing training bonds but no matter what you say you will still be a culprit in trying to worsen our industry.
What would you have done if the company where you paid your training bond went bankrupt. Would you be preaching that training bonds are such a good thing? Btw thanks for helping with the fact that you are trying to change the industry for the worse. If you are all for that, please quit the industry and take up something else. We don't want you in our industry. Did you even suggest a promissary note to your employer before handing over money or did you just have tunnel vision thinking that handing over the money was a fast track to big red. If you have the idea in your head that training bonds are the way of the future I wonder what else you would sacrifice as well. Pay too? I partially blame to companies for implementing training bonds but in the end I blame pilots more for accepting them. I have never signed a training bond and never will. A fact I am happy about. At least I can look at myself in the mirror and have some self respect about that. Now go ahead and try and slag me all you want. Say whatever it is that will make you feel justified in signing training bonds but no matter what you say you will still be a culprit in trying to worsen our industry.
To Doc and Confuzed:
You are both right and both wrong on this one.
We can all see the rational reason for the bond(if you even get a PPC on the MU2).
However, I am going to side with Doc on this one....why does a pilot with such little income have to provide such a large amount of money so that a company can have more liquidity to do business with and have to wait a year or whatever to get it back! That money would be better spent if it was paid back to the pilot for moving costs and food and many other things that the salary obviously doesnt cover or they wouldnt need the bond in the first place.
And the whole retention bonus argument doesnt hold any water. If it was about the interest on the bond(whatver that amounts too) It should be offered as a lump sum to the 'PILOT' for staying around not the other way around.
They all think they can get away with it now.....8 new spots to a company today means $$$ to management.....I really hope not.
You are both right and both wrong on this one.
We can all see the rational reason for the bond(if you even get a PPC on the MU2).
However, I am going to side with Doc on this one....why does a pilot with such little income have to provide such a large amount of money so that a company can have more liquidity to do business with and have to wait a year or whatever to get it back! That money would be better spent if it was paid back to the pilot for moving costs and food and many other things that the salary obviously doesnt cover or they wouldnt need the bond in the first place.
And the whole retention bonus argument doesnt hold any water. If it was about the interest on the bond(whatver that amounts too) It should be offered as a lump sum to the 'PILOT' for staying around not the other way around.
They all think they can get away with it now.....8 new spots to a company today means $$$ to management.....I really hope not.
Here's the problem with Thunder’s bond, you don't even get a useful PPC out of it. You pay them the bond up front, and you get a right seat PPC; which won’t take you very far. Then when you go captain you must renew your bond. This means if you were FO for a year you would have been paid back aprox half of your bond, once you go captain you are then asked to top it up again. Training bonds are an unfortunate part of aviation, Thunder’s is just a little worse than others.
Doc there are a few older guys who have been with Thunder for years, they do ok. The thing it’s not only the money that drives people away it the lifestyle, amongst other things. The joy’s of being on call all the time begins to wear thin after awhile.
Doc there are a few older guys who have been with Thunder for years, they do ok. The thing it’s not only the money that drives people away it the lifestyle, amongst other things. The joy’s of being on call all the time begins to wear thin after awhile.
Thunder never used to have training bond. But after a few guys spilt with brand new PPC's, a bond was implemented. Unfortunately it's becoming more and more common now. I do not agree with it, bit it getting harder to find places that don't have bonds that are actually hiring.
like I have said before Thunder is not a great company nor is it horrible. They do pay for your move when you are requested to move to another base. They do have medical, dental, etc...They even pay well ....if you are a medic
like I have said before Thunder is not a great company nor is it horrible. They do pay for your move when you are requested to move to another base. They do have medical, dental, etc...They even pay well ....if you are a medic
Red1 hit it right on the head. In the past Thunder Airlines never had a bond. It was explained when you were hired that they wanted you to stay for at least a year. You said ok, shook hands and that was it. Your word was your bond. Unfortunately these days there are alot of scumbag pilots out their who's word isn't worth s**t. They lost countless thousands of dollars on guys that got their training and buggered off cause they didn't like the cold or were afraid to put in a good honest days work. Makes me sick to hear people calling Thunder a scumbag operator. Lets lay the blame where it deserves to be shall we? If the scumbag pilots had the balls to stand by their word and stay the duration there wouldn't be a bond at Thunder!!
We hear ya BC...but did any "scumbag pilots" arrive at Thunder with a PPC they got somewhere else? All else being equal, this would happen one way, as much as the other?
And with Thunder's policy of never hiring captains, how many of these "scumbags" had the time to be captains comming through the door?
You see where I'm going here, right?
And with Thunder's policy of never hiring captains, how many of these "scumbags" had the time to be captains comming through the door?
You see where I'm going here, right?
I think those other airlines just make you sign a bond not pay up front. Big Difference!!
And that Niche might work for you, but it’s still unacceptable. You will probably understand this once you break up with Marta the blow up sheep and move out of you parent’s basement!
Good luck.[/quote]
Excuse me dude, I think I understand the bond thing quite well thank you very much.........responses such as yours about my "financial" and "living situation" indicate your mentality and lack of it I should say....grow up before you start slinging shit, I might know a little bit more then you'd think. All I said about the issue is that I understand where it comes from, so quit bitching about it and just get used to it. If YOU don't like the way this industry is, go cry for your mommy's tit and go change jobs! If YOU can't handle it, then why are you here? Grow up, quit whining and just do your damn job.....if it entails a bond so be it, if you don't like it DON'T APPLY! If you think it's unacceptable then cry me a river, I don't really care what you think is acceptable or unacceptable. Just because you can't afford it, then why should I have to put up with YOUR whining?? I don't want to hear "awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, I'd really like to work here, but I can't afford to pay for the training...sniff sniff, boo hoo I don't care if you give it back to me, I still don't think it's fair". If that's the way you think, then go stick your thumb in your mouth stand in a corner and pout for a while. Maybe someone will eventually care enough to ask you what's wrong little boy!
And that Niche might work for you, but it’s still unacceptable. You will probably understand this once you break up with Marta the blow up sheep and move out of you parent’s basement!
Good luck.[/quote]
Excuse me dude, I think I understand the bond thing quite well thank you very much.........responses such as yours about my "financial" and "living situation" indicate your mentality and lack of it I should say....grow up before you start slinging shit, I might know a little bit more then you'd think. All I said about the issue is that I understand where it comes from, so quit bitching about it and just get used to it. If YOU don't like the way this industry is, go cry for your mommy's tit and go change jobs! If YOU can't handle it, then why are you here? Grow up, quit whining and just do your damn job.....if it entails a bond so be it, if you don't like it DON'T APPLY! If you think it's unacceptable then cry me a river, I don't really care what you think is acceptable or unacceptable. Just because you can't afford it, then why should I have to put up with YOUR whining?? I don't want to hear "awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, I'd really like to work here, but I can't afford to pay for the training...sniff sniff, boo hoo I don't care if you give it back to me, I still don't think it's fair". If that's the way you think, then go stick your thumb in your mouth stand in a corner and pout for a while. Maybe someone will eventually care enough to ask you what's wrong little boy!
You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Legacy wrote:Confuzed:
What would you have done if the company where you paid your training bond went bankrupt. Would you be preaching that training bonds are such a good thing? Btw thanks for helping with the fact that you are trying to change the industry for the worse. If you are all for that, please quit the industry and take up something else. We don't want you in our industry. Did you even suggest a promissary note to your employer before handing over money or did you just have tunnel vision thinking that handing over the money was a fast track to big red. If you have the idea in your head that training bonds are the way of the future I wonder what else you would sacrifice as well. Pay too? I partially blame to companies for implementing training bonds but in the end I blame pilots more for accepting them. I have never signed a training bond and never will. A fact I am happy about. At least I can look at myself in the mirror and have some self respect about that. Now go ahead and try and slag me all you want. Say whatever it is that will make you feel justified in signing training bonds but no matter what you say you will still be a culprit in trying to worsen our industry.
All bow down to legacy!!! He is the king of flying,
You're right, if the company goes tit's up then yeah you're screwed....Well, what can I do? Nothing, why should I put my life on hold because of it and wonder "what if?" As I recall, Voyageur requires a bond....up front too from what I've heard and it's a hell of a lot more then what Thunder requires. I could be wrong, and if there is a Voyageur pilot on here please correct me. Once again though, I'll spell out for you if you missed it in my previous post.........read slowly if you must for you to understand it! Do I agree with training bonds.......NO......however, do I understand why they're there.....YES....It's sleazeball pilots that grabbed training for free, jumped ship and left the company out a lot of money, never said they're a good thing just that I understand why they're there. Company says, screw this we're using a bond structure. Does it suck, yes....will I ever work for free as you imply, NO I can assure you of that I have a family to provide for. I don't consider paying a bond as a jump to "Big Red", believe me. I do APOLOGIZE to you there legacy if you think I've worsened the industry for YOU, believe my heart bleeds for you..........NO REALLY, it does. Come on dude, it's not about you....really, it's not even though you're on your high horse you can come down now. I simply think that pilots are more to blame for training bonds then are the companies. Again, it depends on the scenario as well. However, I'm not going to even begin to try and explain as it just falls on deaf ears. Once again, I'll line myself up along the line for more shots.......really, keep them coming I mean apparently I LOVE training bonds!!!! Don't you know that!!! I really loved it when I had to shell out more money, wow, that was AWESOME!!!! WOOHOOO!!!!! Come on dude, pull your head outta the sand and once again no I don't work for free wouldn't when I started, wouldn't now.You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
ROTFLMFAO
Look who cant handle the criticism. . And when you say "quit bitching about it and get used to it". SO if the employers all started paying 500 per month YOU would quit bitching and get used to it. Those are words of a person that doesn't fight for what he believes in. Sounds like you are the type that just accepts what is said and doesn't question it. Nice attitude. Like I said, leave the industry please. And you think that I think this is about me? Ahh lets look at that. I have enough experience to qualify for any company in canada. Why would I PERSONALLY care if Jetsgo has a training bond. Am i going to apply there? no. There are many other companies. What I do care about is the future WE as pilots pave for the other people coming into it. Who knows it may be your brother, sister, son or daughter. Yeah that sounds like its about me doesn't it. If I thought it was about me and me only I wouldn't care if there were training bonds. Man why would I care what happens after I pass. Think about it. I very strongly feel that we as pilots must stick together in this regard and refuse training bonds. Yes I do see the employers view on why training bonds exist. BUT what do employers think? They think ALL employees will work for them forever? Thats pretty ridiculous. Employers will sit there and bitch about training costs and they will waste 5 times that amount somewhere else in their system. Training is a COST of doing business. Maybe THEY should accept it and quit whining about it. Like Doc said, most of the time when pilots jump ship so soon is because the employers treat them like crap. No wonder. I don't blame the pilots. There are many companies out there that have a very low turnover rate. why? they treat their pilots well. In turn their training costs are low. Simple concept isn't it. So go ahead. Start your tearing away at me.
Look who cant handle the criticism. . And when you say "quit bitching about it and get used to it". SO if the employers all started paying 500 per month YOU would quit bitching and get used to it. Those are words of a person that doesn't fight for what he believes in. Sounds like you are the type that just accepts what is said and doesn't question it. Nice attitude. Like I said, leave the industry please. And you think that I think this is about me? Ahh lets look at that. I have enough experience to qualify for any company in canada. Why would I PERSONALLY care if Jetsgo has a training bond. Am i going to apply there? no. There are many other companies. What I do care about is the future WE as pilots pave for the other people coming into it. Who knows it may be your brother, sister, son or daughter. Yeah that sounds like its about me doesn't it. If I thought it was about me and me only I wouldn't care if there were training bonds. Man why would I care what happens after I pass. Think about it. I very strongly feel that we as pilots must stick together in this regard and refuse training bonds. Yes I do see the employers view on why training bonds exist. BUT what do employers think? They think ALL employees will work for them forever? Thats pretty ridiculous. Employers will sit there and bitch about training costs and they will waste 5 times that amount somewhere else in their system. Training is a COST of doing business. Maybe THEY should accept it and quit whining about it. Like Doc said, most of the time when pilots jump ship so soon is because the employers treat them like crap. No wonder. I don't blame the pilots. There are many companies out there that have a very low turnover rate. why? they treat their pilots well. In turn their training costs are low. Simple concept isn't it. So go ahead. Start your tearing away at me.
Last edited by Legacy on Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That's basically what I'm trying to get at here.......it's becoming more and more common, due to some scumbags just buggering off. Does it suck, yeah but c'est la vie the real world sucks sometimes. Yeah, the pay is about average for the industry, still better then NAC or some other companies out thereRed1 wrote:Thunder never used to have training bond. But after a few guys spilt with brand new PPC's, a bond was implemented. Unfortunately it's becoming more and more common now. I do not agree with it, bit it getting harder to find places that don't have bonds that are actually hiring.
like I have said before Thunder is not a great company nor is it horrible. They do pay for your move when you are requested to move to another base. They do have medical, dental, etc...They even pay well ....if you are a medic
Is it the worst place I've worked, hell no....is it the best, well no. However there's no broken equipment, full benefits package, pay for half your uniform, pay to help you move when requested to move, don't bust minimums, fly overweight, etc.........You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Often wondered that myself.......I asked almighty Kaj tonight and you DON'T want to know what his answer wasDoc wrote:I'm still trying to figure out what a "high horse" is? More than sixteen hands?
You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Cause apparently it makes us look more specialDoc wrote:Uniforms? You guys wear uniforms? Why?
PR work maybe, conspiracy?? Who knows, I just can't wait for winter when we can wear the flight suits......MU2 guys though are never even allowed to wear the flight suits. First place I've worked charter wise where you needed a uniform........boggles my mind, when you're out there flying joe blow from ft. hope and you tromping around in the mud with a nice clean uniform on 
You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Dude, trust me if it were to come to a massive paycut I'd be the first one outta here. Like I said, I have a family to provide for. The pay already has gone downhill dude, what are you talking about? Do you think pilots got paid the same 10 years agao? No, is it because people are working for free or paying for bonds, I don't think so personally. There's a lot more factors at work there. This industry is cyclical, it will return to where it was one day......however, bitching about the current state affairs doesn't do anyone any good. It just makes you look like a whiner. The industry is WAY different now then when I got into it, and it's upsetting to see but right now there's nothing you can do about it. You're basically telling me to tell a company that is going to hire me to go piss up a rope because of a bond? When you have a family to provide for it doesn't quite work that way, the EI line only works for so long and only pays you so much. Yes it's depressing as hell, but there's nothing much we can do about it. Which is why I get back to just punch in, do your thing and go home. Whining about it won't get you anywhere. Whining, complaining, etc get you fired or "laid off" and when you have nothing lined up to go to you're #!$#%. If I don't agree with the operating practices of a company then I simply don't apply......for example, there's a few companies in MB and SK that I wouldn't NOT work for. Why, because their safety policies and pay scale are absolutely retarded. If you think though that pilots rising up and saying "NO MORE THIS, or NO MORE THAT" will get us anywhere, that's a pipe dream in my opinion. I don't think it'll happen. IF so, awesome, I'm all for it. Just not keeping my fingers crossed.Legacy wrote:Look who cant handle the criticism. . And when you say "quit bitching about it and get used to it". SO if the employers all started paying 500 per month YOU would quit bitching and get used to it. Those are words of a person that doesn't fight for what he believes in. Sounds like you are the type that just accepts what is said and doesn't question it. Nice attitude. Like I said, leave the industry please. And you think that I think this is about me? Ahh lets look at that. I have enough experience to qualify for any company in canada. Why would I PERSONALLY care if Jetsgo has a training bond. Am i going to apply there? no. There are many other companies. What I do care about is the future WE as pilots pave for the other people coming into it. Who knows it may be your brother, sister, son or daughter. Yeah that sounds like its about me doesn't it. If I thought it was about me and me only I wouldn't care if there were training bonds. Man why would I care what happens after I pass. Think about it. I very strongly feel that we as pilots must stick together in this regard and refuse training bonds. Yes I do see the employers view on why training bonds exist. BUT what do employers think? They think ALL employees will work for them forever? Thats pretty ridiculous. Employers will sit there and bitch about training costs and they will waste 5 times that amount somewhere else in their system. Training is a COST of doing business. Maybe THEY should accept it and quit whining about it. Like Doc said, most of the time when pilots jump ship so soon is because the employers treat them like crap. No wonder. I don't blame the pilots. There are many companies out there that have a very low turnover rate. why? they treat their pilots well. In turn their training costs are low. Simple concept isn't it. So go ahead. Start your tearing away at me.
You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Well if you can call his a uniformDoc wrote:It was King Kaj I was thinking about when I asked the uniform question. ROTFLMFAO!!!!
lol. Half the time there's a button missing on his ketchup stained shirt, mismatching socks and a wrinkled up tie......then there's the "other" articles of clothing I find in the airplane after taking over his shift You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
I noticed that....I think a nice clean pair of jeans and a golf shirt or other collared shirt look just as respectful. Oh....wait a minute.....in that scenario you can't put on the fancy gold barsDoc wrote:We dont wear them. We keep telling the passengers they can have the front seats....they keep turning us down.
As long as you look presentable you should be able to wear it. A buddy of mine flies corporate, and they just wear a pair of dockers and a golf shirt. Oh well, what can you do I guess? Maybe all pilots should rise up and say "NO MORE UNIFORMS!!!" 
You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Doc wrote:Ya cant dress him up....and ya dont want to take him out!!!
Yeah, he might wind up getting YOU slapped in a bar instead of him, hahaha
You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
