So I am approaching another attempt at the CPL flight test tomorrow... But yet again weather is forecast to be in the gutter. I have done some searching through CARs and flight test guides but have not come to a conclusion of to what is "a no go". Reason being, forecast is for rain tomorrow, but ceilings have been at 8000ft the last few days in rain but tomorrow winds are forecast to be strong enough the government has issued calls for shore residents to move boats, equipment back from the shoreline. So technically it is VFR, but I really do not wanna do my flight test in 35 knot winds.
So my concern is, what are the limits for weather for a flight test.. Ultimately I have to make the go/no go decision, but could the wrong answer land someone a fail before they even make it to the plane?
Flight Test No/No Go
Moderators: Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
Re: Flight Test No/No Go
If the weather is IFR and you tell the examiner "OK let's go!", he'll most likely fail you (then again that's just stupid).
However, I can say from experience (I asked my examiner) that if the weather is marginal in the forecast (probability wise), and it craps out while you're out there, it won't be a fail. I suppose it would be a partial since you would have to complete the rest at a later date.
Either way, can't hurt if you play it safe. Take you're time, its not like you're gonna get a job the day after you flight exam...
Good luck!
However, I can say from experience (I asked my examiner) that if the weather is marginal in the forecast (probability wise), and it craps out while you're out there, it won't be a fail. I suppose it would be a partial since you would have to complete the rest at a later date.
Either way, can't hurt if you play it safe. Take you're time, its not like you're gonna get a job the day after you flight exam...
Good luck!
Re: Flight Test No/No Go
Also, based on the thread title
it would seem that you have already (at least subconsciously) made up your mind.Flight Test No/No Go
Meant one to be a go -
FlaplessDork
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Re: Flight Test No/No Go
There is no right or wrong answer to this. There are manythings that need to be taught that you can't find in the CARs, flight test guide, etc. Too often they are not taught properly. The biggest aspect that is not practiced enough is PDM.arictaylor wrote:So my concern is, what are the limits for weather for a flight test.. Ultimately I have to make the go/no go decision, but could the wrong answer land someone a fail before they even make it to the plane?
You will not fail if you're not comfortable with the weather. You may be able to accomplish the flight but do you really want to do a flight test in it. Its totally up to you. Sometimes you my be comfortable but the examiner may not be. Again its not a fail, some examiners just don't like any weather at all. I did a checkout for an examiner once and he was scared of everything. I couldnt get him to even do a stall fully because he was so scared. I hate to say but he was a mediocre pilot and I don't know how he became an examiner.
You have your limits, and the examiner has his. Usually you should have higher limits for a flight test. What the examiner does have to go by is the flight school policy as its a document that is incorporated by reference in the CARs and therefore it is a legal document.
Lets say you do go and the weather is not as good as you thought. Whats the worst thing that can happen? You make another desicion that has a sucsessful and safe outcome. It could mean that you call off the rest of the test, or it could mean moving to another spot. All they want to see is that you made a decision.
The point is that you have to "think" and you won't always find an answer in the CARs , Standards, SOP's, etc. Different people may come up with different answers, based on experience, knowledge, skill level, etc but as long as it had a successful outcome, they all are right answers.
Below is from the Flight Test Guide and I believe its the most important thing to demonstrate on a flight test.
TP 13462 - Flight Test Guide - Commercial Pilot Licence - Aeroplane wrote:Flight management refers to the effective use of all available resources, including working with such groups as dispatchers, other crewmembers, maintenance personnel, and air traffic controllers. Poor performance of an exercise or task can often be explained by weaknesses in flight management competencies.
Problem Solving and Decision Making
a.anticipates problems far enough in advance to avoid crisis reaction
b.uses effective decision-making process
c.makes appropriate inquiries
d.prioritizes tasks to gain maximum information input for decisions
e.makes effective use of all available resources to make decisions
f.considers "downstream" consequences of the decision being considered
Situational Awareness
a.actively monitors weather, aircraft systems, instruments, ATC communications
b.avoids "tunnel vision" - awareness that factors such as stress can reduce vigilance
c.stays "ahead of the aircraft" in preparing for expected or contingency situations
d.remains alert to detect subtle changes in the environment
Communication
a.provides thorough briefings
b.asks for information and advice
c.communicates decisions clearly
d.asserts one's position appropriately
Workload Management
a.organizes cockpit resources well
b.recognizes overload in self
c.eliminates distractions during high workload situations
d.maintains ability to adapt during high workload situations
Last edited by FlaplessDork on Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Flight Test No/No Go
Aric,
Remember, the CPL flight test is a measure of your abilities to fly and make decisions as a commercial pilot. Imagine the examiner being one of your 9 passengers on your first air taxi job. Bob, your colleague is a known idiot and he will take any flights that you won't. As a result the boss will like him more and you will get dumped if you say no to x many flights. Why? Cause you cost him unnecessary money. At least what he considers "unnecessary money." As much as commercial aviation is safety, it's also time and money for the owners. If you're a waste of time and money, no matter how safe, you will most likely get the boot. As much as this is stupid and the signs of an operator that you should not work for, it's VERY true.
Your plan is to develop into a successful commercial pilot; and in your path of doing so, you're most likely going to go through similar type operators.
So, what you need to think as far as a GO / NO GO decision goes is straight forward. Am I going against any of the CAR's by doing this flight? Is there anything on this flight that could result in me hitting my contingency fuel? Is it unsafe? Will my passengers have the worst ride of their life? NOTAMS? Unserviceable NAVAIDS? Is there anyway I can get around the "obstruction" that is not allowing me to go? A different route? will that new route burn more fuel? given the extra fuel burn, would it be cost effective for the operator? is it safe? can I fly VFR OTT? What are the forecasts 1 hour and 2 hours after at the destination? Is the flight visibility at least 5 statue miles? Am I going to be flying between two cloud layers? will I have at least 5000 feet worth of clearance? Is there a forecast of any precip, thunderstorm or blowing dust/snow?
I'm pretty sure that if there's no way to meet the above mentioned "what if's," you can make a strong and valid statement to your boss about it being a no go; hence your passengers, and hence your flight test examiner.
Hope that helps and best of luck to you my friend.
Remember, the CPL flight test is a measure of your abilities to fly and make decisions as a commercial pilot. Imagine the examiner being one of your 9 passengers on your first air taxi job. Bob, your colleague is a known idiot and he will take any flights that you won't. As a result the boss will like him more and you will get dumped if you say no to x many flights. Why? Cause you cost him unnecessary money. At least what he considers "unnecessary money." As much as commercial aviation is safety, it's also time and money for the owners. If you're a waste of time and money, no matter how safe, you will most likely get the boot. As much as this is stupid and the signs of an operator that you should not work for, it's VERY true.
Your plan is to develop into a successful commercial pilot; and in your path of doing so, you're most likely going to go through similar type operators.
So, what you need to think as far as a GO / NO GO decision goes is straight forward. Am I going against any of the CAR's by doing this flight? Is there anything on this flight that could result in me hitting my contingency fuel? Is it unsafe? Will my passengers have the worst ride of their life? NOTAMS? Unserviceable NAVAIDS? Is there anyway I can get around the "obstruction" that is not allowing me to go? A different route? will that new route burn more fuel? given the extra fuel burn, would it be cost effective for the operator? is it safe? can I fly VFR OTT? What are the forecasts 1 hour and 2 hours after at the destination? Is the flight visibility at least 5 statue miles? Am I going to be flying between two cloud layers? will I have at least 5000 feet worth of clearance? Is there a forecast of any precip, thunderstorm or blowing dust/snow?
I'm pretty sure that if there's no way to meet the above mentioned "what if's," you can make a strong and valid statement to your boss about it being a no go; hence your passengers, and hence your flight test examiner.
Hope that helps and best of luck to you my friend.
Re: Flight Test No/No Go
@Loopa: was that straight from Buck's Weather Flying book? Very good advises that's for sure, thanks for posting.
Think ahead or fall behind!
Re: Flight Test No/No Go
I just woke up and saw this post and decided to reply; no what's that book?
Re: Flight Test No/No Go
http://www.amazon.ca/Weather-Flying-Rob ... 007008761X
It covers the basic essential stuff that needs to be known about weather, and provides a lot of practical insights. Every new pilots should have that book and read it more than once. I guess it can be a very good review for more experienced pilots too.
It covers the basic essential stuff that needs to be known about weather, and provides a lot of practical insights. Every new pilots should have that book and read it more than once. I guess it can be a very good review for more experienced pilots too.
Think ahead or fall behind!
Re: Flight Test No/No Go
I'd recommend not picking a day that will be 100% smooth & clear. If you go up on a day with a little bit of weather, winds, turbulence etc., the examiner will most likely give you the benefit of the doubt on certain things if you make a minor mistake - moreso than if the weather was perfect.
Re: Flight Test No/No Go
turns out ceilings are 800feet/3mile today so don't think much thinking has to be put into it.. Its a GO! 
Re: Flight Test No/No Go
Are you still going to do the ground portion or scrap it altogether?
Re: Flight Test No/No Go
I'm gonna go in and do the ground portion, get that part over with.. Have to call him and get my routing in 30minutes hence being up so damm early!
