Change from with-in

[gonnabeapilot]

I enjoy flying with Air Canada. I've never had a bad experience when it comes to the front-line employees, from check-in to in-flight. However a recent experience has made me consider switching airlines when it comes to my travel plans. I pursued the issue through the customer feedback option on the Air Canada website and didn't get anywhere. It is my hope that by sharing my experience with the Air Canada employees who frequent this forum, someone will know how to raise the right questions to the right people. I want to see a successful and profitable Air Canada going into the future, but unless they put a larger effort into listening to their customers, I don't know if that's going to happen. Anyways, my story:

My dad lives in Calgary but all of our relatives are in Toronto. I wanted to surprise him with a ticket so he could make a visit that he otherwise couldn't afford to make. I checked the fares with Air Canada and Westjet and found them to be with-in $5 of each other. Since I have a preference for travelling on Air Canada, I booked the ticket with them. My luck being what it is, my dad's schedule at work changed and he no longer was able to make the trip. He cancelled his ticket and got a flight credit for future use on Air Canada. So far so good. At the end of this month, I'm headed off on a trip of my own. When my dad found out, he wanted me to use his flight credit towards the cost of my ticket, seeing as I had paid for his ticket to begin with. I phoned Air Canada to re-book and was told "no, sorry sir. A flight credit can not be transferred to another person". That's when the light bulb went on in my head, and I started kicking myself for having booked with Air Canada.

You see, my previous job was working for a 704 operator who had to dead-head around quite a few crews. When I started we were always booked on Air Canada but a few years ago that policy was changed. We started flying Westjet all the time and only flew Air Canada on the rarest occasions. I asked our crew scheduling department why we had made the change and was told that "Flying Westjet allows us more flexability. If things change and we need to cancel a ticket, Air Canada will not allow us to transfer the credit over to somebody else. Westjet allows the credits to be transfered for a small fee and that makes a huge difference in our operation". I started to wish that I had remembered this story before having booked my dad's ticket, because if I had, I never would have even considered booking with Air Canada, just in case things changed.

I wrote the customer service department asking for an explanation as to why this rule was in place. Why would a company put barriers in place to intentionally make it difficult for customers to use their product? The response I got was the standard Air Canada reply that frustrates so many people in this country. Essentially, it was "There's nothing wrong with our policy, the problem is that you didn't fully understand our policy. Allow us to explain". They informed me that if I wanted to be able to cancel my ticket, I should have bought a Latitude fare, not a Tango fare. That providing me with any form of compensation would "be somewhat discriminatory to customers who have purchased a higher cost ticket, specifically for the ability to obtain a refund". The thing is, I wasn't seeking compensation. I'm not going to blame the airline for the fact that I didn't properly research my purchase. The only thing I wanted to do, was inform them of the fact that their current fare structure had driven away the business of not only one loyal customer (myself) but the business of a company that purchased hundreds of flights a year on them. How does this policy make sense?

I randomly selected a flight from YYC-YYZ and looked at prices. The difference between a Latitude fare and a Tango fare was $600 return.... more than the price of a round-trip Tango fare. Granted, there are more differences between the two fare types, but according to customer service, if I think that there is a chance I'll need to cancel my flight, I should purchase the Latitude fare. How about instead, I just follow the example set by my previous employer and take my business to Westjet?? Their prices are always on par with the Tango or Tango Plus fares offered by Air Canada plus their policy states "Cancellations made after the day of booking (i.e. more than 24 hours after the original booking time) may be subject to a $50 CAD fee (plus tax) per person depending on the type of fare being cancelled. Any remainder will be placed in a WestJet Credit File. Credit files are valid for one year from the date of creation and are fully transferable". Amazing! An airline that actually makes it easy for their customers to use their product. An airline that realizes that allowing for some flexability when it comes to travel, will be well received by the general public. An airline that continues to expand its market share in Canada because of these very policies!

Now it's not my intention to start a Westjet vs. Air Canada thread. My intention is to bring this issue to the attention of the employees of Air Canada in the hopes that they see how this policy is costing the airline business. I found it funny that shortly after I sent my letter away to Air Canada customer service, an article appeared in the Globe and Mail about Air Canada. There was a comments section following the article. The second post was from a father who had booked a ticket for his thirteen year old son and had to cancel it. He wanted to use the credit for himself for a later trip and was informed of Air Canada's policy. He also knew that Westjet allowed for flight credits to be transfered between people and was outraged that he couldn't use a credit from a flight booked with his own money towards a trip he wanted to make. He vowed in his post never to fly Air Canada again. I have to wonder how many other people out there have run into this problem before and remained silent? How many others no longer travel with Air Canada because this policy makes it much more difficult to book with Air Canada than to book with Westjet? More importantly, how many companies who are seeking flexable, reasonably priced fares, no longer book their corporate travel with Air Canada because of this policy?

Hopefully people can see the logic to my argument and are willing to do something about it. I tried doing my part, but the folks at customer service didn't seem to care. Perhaps the employees can help change this policy from the inside. The way I see it, matching Westjet's policy when it comes to flight credits will only make it easier for people to book travel with Air Canada. It is a simple extension to the programs that Air Canada has recently put in place to give themselves a "customer friendly" make-over. I want this change to be made because I think it will benefit Air Canada in the long run, and a healthy Air Canada is a good thing for the aviation industry.

Regards,

gonnabe

[FICU]

We also deadhead a lot of crews and had previously used AC and their pass system but as soon as they got rid of it and any flexibility it offered we went to WJ... the only reason being flexibility. AC should wake up because we'd rather be sitting in their seats.

[aroundthewing]

Montie,
could you answer this?
Really, it will take some "undoing" to rid the Fare Structure of the Montie "nickel and diming".

[proper]

ahhhhh but Helas Montie ran away with millions. But I'm sure his office is still there ringing ringing and ringing. wow what a world.

[Flightlevels]

gonnabe don't forget prior to wj that ticket would have been sky high. Now with in 5 dollars as you said. Take away that competition variable and it could be a long time for another to step in. Something else to consider when supporting one or another.

[Brick Head]

Yup it sucks. But.

IATA rules prohibit transferring unused tickets to other names. According to IATA 93% of the traveling public world wide travel with IATA member airlines

Air Canada is a member of IATA. Westjet is not. They could join but have chosen for what ever reason not to. one of the requirements for members of course is to follow IATA rules. Southwest also is not a member of IATA however if WJ looks in the future to code share with an IATA member this issue will become a problem for them too.

Why does IATA prohibit the transferring of unused tickets? Fraud. Bad people with guns and bombs generally like to use fraudulent ways to acquire airline tickets. Using their own names and credit cards has a habit of getting them caught before they commit their deed. Airlines must protect their passengers and themselves.

One of the ways employed is to prohibit unused tickets from being used in another name.

Not that the airlines are all innocent and stuff. They could just give the money back. But they don't. Not even WJ does that. Unfortunately if there is change it will be the kind of change you started this thread to oppose. WJ seems to be pursuing code share possibilities with IATA member airlines. If that ever happens they too will be required to follow IATA rules.

http://www.iata.org/membership/airline_members_list.htm

Did you know that since 911, if you commit credit card fraud for anything, doesn't have to be with an airline ticket purchase, you are placed on the no fly list?

Changed world.

[bmc]

Yup it sucks. But.

IATA rules prohibit transferring unused tickets to other names. According to IATA 93% of the traveling public world wide travel with IATA member airlines

Air Canada is a member of IATA. Westjet is not. They could join but have chosen for what ever reason not to. one of the requirements for members of course is to follow IATA rules. Southwest also is not a member of IATA however if WJ looks in the future to code share with an IATA member this issue will become a problem for them too.

Why does IATA prohibit the transferring of unused tickets? Fraud. Bad people with guns and bombs generally like to use fraudulent ways to acquire airline tickets. Using their own names and credit cards has a habit of getting them caught before they commit their deed. Airlines must protect their passengers and themselves.

One of the ways employed is to prohibit unused tickets from being used in another name.

Not that the airlines are all innocent and stuff. They could just give the money back. But they don't. Not even WJ does that. Unfortunately if there is change it will be the kind of change you started this thread to oppose. WJ seems to be pursuing code share possibilities with IATA member airlines. If that ever happens they too will be required to follow IATA rules.

http://www.iata.org/membership/airline_members_list.htm

Did you know that since 911, if you commit credit card fraud for anything, doesn't have to be with an airline ticket purchase, you are placed on the no fly list?

Changed world.

Paper tickets no longer exist. They disappeared last year. If there are any floating around, they are not IATA tickets. IATA stopped printing tickets in 2007. Therefore endorsing tickets over to another airline is an electronic issue that can only work if the interface s there between the airlines concerned.

The acceptance of another carriers tickets is at the airlines discretion. It has nothing to do with IATA membership. The condition of membership to IATA does not mean automatic interlining between airlines. The IATA facility for interlining is the IATA Multilateral Interline Agreement. Even if you do have a concurrence through the MITA, it does not mean all tickets are automatically accepted.

Airlines do not need to be members of IATA to interline. Many interline arrangements today are bilateral agreements that contain a lot airline specific conditions, such as a settlemnt or prorate agreements. IATA will publish airlinelines that participate in the different agreements. If there is a dispute, IATA will render a decision. If it's a bilateral agreement, IATA has no say.

Some airline fares are priced too low and handing them over to another airline could cost you more than you collected. Furthermore, many airlines want to hang onto their revenue. IATA tariff coordination is virtually non-existent today, mainly due to competition authorities taking a dim view to coordinated pricing. That and the fact that the airlines did an excellent job of killing it off themselves with unrealistic high fares that nobody ever sold. All fares sold now are carrier fares that carry their own terms and conditions.

Card fraud is a HUGE issue with the airlines. It's costing the industry USD $1.4 billion a year. Most of it is card not present transactions. Fraudulent tickets have virtually disappeared since e-ticketing. However, fraudulent transactions with compromised credit card data occurs daily on airline websites and airline ticket offices.

[gonnabeapilot]

Yup it sucks. But.

IATA rules prohibit transferring unused tickets to other names. According to IATA 93% of the traveling public world wide travel with IATA member airlines

Air Canada is a member of IATA. Westjet is not. They could join but have chosen for what ever reason not to. one of the requirements for members of course is to follow IATA rules. Southwest also is not a member of IATA however if WJ looks in the future to code share with an IATA member this issue will become a problem for them too.

Why does IATA prohibit the transferring of unused tickets? Fraud. Bad people with guns and bombs generally like to use fraudulent ways to acquire airline tickets. Using their own names and credit cards has a habit of getting them caught before they commit their deed. Airlines must protect their passengers and themselves.

One of the ways employed is to prohibit unused tickets from being used in another name.

Not that the airlines are all innocent and stuff. They could just give the money back. But they don't. Not even WJ does that. Unfortunately if there is change it will be the kind of change you started this thread to oppose. WJ seems to be pursuing code share possibilities with IATA member airlines. If that ever happens they too will be required to follow IATA rules.

http://www.iata.org/membership/airline_members_list.htm

Did you know that since 911, if you commit credit card fraud for anything, doesn't have to be with an airline ticket purchase, you are placed on the no fly list?

Changed world.

Very interesting bit of information, thanks! I didn't realize that it was an IATA requirement. I guess my question now is, how does that policy really prevent fraud? I can use my credit card to book travel for anybody on the planet provided I have their first and last name. How is that any different than booking travel for myself and then transfering that ticket to another person for their use? If anything, allowing a ticket to be transfered is a better way to prevent fraud since it also requires the name of the person originally scheduled to travel and the bigger the paper trail, the better the chance at following it back to the fraudster. Oh well, I guess if it's IATA's policy, we won't see it change any time soon. It's too bad really since it's such a customer un-friendly policy and is costing them business.... not to mention, it's a policy that really doesn't make any sense as long as airlines still allow anyone to book travel using another person's credit card.

[Mr. North]

Same thing happened to me in September. I was in Vacouver for a wedding and had a ticket home to Winnipeg once the show was over. Needless to say plans changed and my sister needed to get home before I did but when we called customer service we experienced the same treatment. Despite sharing the same last name and living at the same address, AC still wouldn't make the switch. When asked why, they couldn't offer an explanation. Dumbfounded, and really frustrated I asked for their manager, and then the manager's manager.. finally threatening to never, ever fly AC again did they make the switch. The whole process lasted around 3 hours. It's a shame they never brought up this IATA regulation, which is the first time I've heard of it.

In contrast, last week I was in a similar situation with WJ. Problem was resolved 10 minutes and $50 later. Done!

[wallypilot]

It's a shame they never brought up this IATA regulation, which is the first time I've heard of it.

IATA is an industry standard, and not necessarily regulation. Just because IATA says so, doesn't mean it is. IATA is just an excuse for these guys. Sure, some regs are based on what IATA has suggested, but remember that IATA is just an industry group that has suggested some regulations....it's not an international governing body in the legal sense. The Canadian Ministry of Transportation along with Transport Canada set domestic regs, and ICAO is the international organization on which TC may or may not base it's own regs. Ultimately, this whole "non-transferability" thing is simply a way to increase profits. Security, Schmecurity....give me a break.