Kicked out of London YXU (No Mode C)

[wirez]

I was flying to London (YXU) today for the first time since the CZ changed from Class D to Class C. Of course I know this means that a Mode C Transponder is required. My aircraft has Mode A only. However, I know that there are pilots that fly NORDO into control zones all the time, or with no transponder in transponder-required airspace -- as long as they give the proper controlling agency a call and request prior permission. Knowing this, I didn't think it would be a big deal if I requested prior permission to fly in with a mode A as long as I let YXU tower know and got the okay.

So when I filed my flight plan today, I asked London FIC if I should call YXU tower and speak to them; I wasn't sure whether to call the number in the CFS since it says "emergency only". The FS Specialist offered to call the tower for me and ask, he did, and told me it was no big deal and that I could fly in. Once I flew to the outside of the zone and called the tower, the controller told me I couldn't go in without Mode C. I explained that I was told that YXU tower said I could according to London FSS. He tells me to wait so he can find out more. The controller eventually says that he has no idea who I talked to, but that he couldn't let me in.

So my question is, is Mode C an absolute requirement in Class C airspace? (i.e. one cannot request prior permission to circumvent). I find it incredible that one can fly NORDO into a control zone with the proper procedures but that a Mode A aircraft cannot. It did not seem like it was busy when I arrived either; the controller gave me the impression that it was an absolute NO.

I've also flown to the states with only a Mode A with prior permission, and had no problems whatsoever.

Appreciate any input.

It would suck if I couldn't visit the Katana Cafe anymore.

[Lurch]

I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong but 'm sure everything you said was right

I have seen this done a lot, ATC just kept them at them low and they had to make position reports (no Transponder).

Next time try calling the tower yourself and make sure you get their name. I have never had any grief for calling a control tower.

They do have the right to refuse you entry if they become busy after you talked to them.

Whats the cost to upgrade to a Mode C?

Lurch

[poke-her player]

that's puting the service in flight service.

don't worry though while he might have denied you entry to the zone,

Edited by Doc.

[comspazz]

poke-her player If you flew out of London you would realize how stupid your remarks about the tower are.
Next to Pearson these guys and gal are the HARDEST WORKING crew in Canada and as a professional pilot I am offended with your remarks.
I thank God that this crew does such a great job with everything they have to contend with on a daily basis.


wirez - Next time just call the tower on the number listed in the CFS, personally, and get a transponder code and arrival time from the tower guys and gal and that should get you into the airport. When they get very busy they sometimes have 6-7 in the circuit, Jazz, Westjet, USair and Messaba all coming or going at the same time. They may not be able to get to right away, so be patient.

[FlaplessDork]

Did quite abit training for a guy in his SuperCub with Mode A only out of a Class D CZ which required Mode C. Just had to make more position reports. This airport is extremely busy and was training new controllers at the time.

[teacher]

To save you a little hassle always get the name of the person you talked to.

[Strega]

They dont want the mode A because it makes them do their job, and some the functionality of TCAS is lost

S

[parrot_head]

So my question is, is Mode C an absolute requirement in Class C airspace? (i.e. one cannot request prior permission to circumvent)

It is a requirement, however you can get permission to get into Class C without a functioning Mode C. Usually a quick call (over the phone or radio) to either the Tower or the Terminal Unit and you will get the permission you need. It does add a little to the workload as we have to ask you for altitude reports during descent, climb cruise etc, in order to verify your altitude. I work out west so I can't speak for the guys out east, but I've been working Class C terminal airspace for 3 years now and have yet to see someone get turned away.

[BingBong]

Christmas is coming.....and its 2009 already....buy a mode C

[DanJ]

When they get very busy they sometimes have 6-7 in the circuit, Jazz, Westjet, USair and Messaba all coming or going at the same time. They may not be able to get to right away, so be patient.

US stopped flying here in 2001 or so. You meant UA perhaps?

[GilletteNorth]

that's puting the service in flight service.

So original... but I have to ask... how is it a FSS fault that a controller denied an aircraft without mode c entry to his zone?

[wirez]

So my question is, is Mode C an absolute requirement in Class C airspace? (i.e. one cannot request prior permission to circumvent)

It is a requirement, however you can get permission to get into Class C without a functioning Mode C. Usually a quick call (over the phone or radio) to either the Tower or the Terminal Unit and you will get the permission you need. It does add a little to the workload as we have to ask you for altitude reports during descent, climb cruise etc, in order to verify your altitude. I work out west so I can't speak for the guys out east, but I've been working Class C terminal airspace for 3 years now and have yet to see someone get turned away.

That was my understanding; for this flight in question I had been flying through YYZ Terminal with no problems, so was a little surprised that YXU refused me entry.

[alpha1]

Thank you Doc.

[Sparkfarmer]

Blow the dust off of your wallet and get a new transponder with mode "C". Its not just you flying around you know. Why should ATC babysit you because your too cheap to upgrade?

[wirez]

Blow the dust off of your wallet and get a new transponder with mode "C". Its not just you flying around you know. Why should ATC babysit you because your too cheap to upgrade?

If you aren't going to answer the question then don't bother posting. It's not my aircraft to upgrade.

[Stevo226]

It did not seem like it was busy when I arrived either; the controller gave me the impression that it was an absolute NO.

That's because there's now two frequencies. If everyone were on 119.4 today, you wouldn't have been able to get a word in at all

[poke-her player]

how is it a FSS fault that a controller denied an aircraft without mode c entry to his zone?

do controllers not offer flight service?

Who said FSS?

[wirez]

It did not seem like it was busy when I arrived either; the controller gave me the impression that it was an absolute NO.

That's because there's now two frequencies. If everyone were on 119.4 today, you wouldn't have been able to get a word in at all

I didn't consider that. Thanks.

[l_reason]

A few weeks ago I was listening to the tower (YXU 119.4) when I was flying in the area. There were two Tutors (or some other private jets) in formation that requested a brake over the field and circle to land. With no transponder at all they were granted the request. It was quite busy that day with the usual traffic.

I guess it's ok not to have a transponder if you know the right people... If they want to stick by there policy it should be for everyone, not just the bug smashers.