Actual IMC Log

[FlaplessDork]

If you can't figure out how to log IMC what else are you having touble figuring out? I wouldn't hire you.

I wouldn't hire you either. You are too tall and smell like old socks.

Kidding aside, let me pose another question. Why do the CARs allow the logging of Simulated IMC while acting as a flight instructor? Is the instructor allowed to put on a hood too? What counts as simulation? Appearently according to the CARs I can log simulated IMC while instructing towards an instrument rating while in the aircraft. From now on I am wearing a hood too!

(c) within the six months preceding the flight, acquired six hours of instrument time and completed six instrument approaches to the minima specified in the Canada Air Pilot in an aircraft, in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, while acting as a flight instructor conducting training in respect of the endorsement of a flight crew licence or permit with an instrument rating;

[Bushav8er]

If you can't figure out how to log IMC what else are you having touble figuring out? I wouldn't hire you.

I wouldn't hire you either. You are too tall and smell like old socks.

Kidding aside, let me pose another question. Why do the CARs allow the logging of Simulated IMC while acting as a flight instructor? Is the instructor allowed to put on a hood too? What counts as simulation? Appearently according to the CARs I can log simulated IMC while instructing towards an instrument rating while in the aircraft. From now on I am wearing a hood too!

(c) within the six months preceding the flight, acquired six hours of instrument time and completed six instrument approaches to the minima specified in the Canada Air Pilot in an aircraft, in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, while acting as a flight instructor conducting training in respect of the endorsement of a flight crew licence or permit with an instrument rating;

First the part you reference is for how to remain current and it all refers to 'the holder' (of the rating). You can do this by actually doing 6 in 6, or by doing them actual or sim (or device) with someone qualified.

Qualified Person wording

the aircraft or in a flight training device under the supervision of a person who holds the qualifications

Ie. a 'Spotter'

Part (C) is actually referring to you, an instructor, as 'the holder' and that you can count the 6 in 6 you did in training another. So yes, you can log it. But note that the 'Spotter' mentioned in (b) can not.

Whats the difference?

A spotter is acting as lookout for someone that holds the rating. The instructor holds the rating and is training someone that doesn't hold the rating and therefore the flying is on their license/rating especially if in actual.

[xsbank]

I log IFR, not IMC. In fact I do not have a column in my log marked IMC, it is marked IFR. If you fly under IFR rules, the time off to wheels down is IFR-logged. I do have a column marked 'Simulator'....

3/4 of what you do while flying IFR is not keeping it level in cloud, it is planning, filing, low-vis taxiing, following ATC clearances, manipulating the navigation equipment, shooting the approach, planning and flying (sometimes) the MAPP etc. etc. etc., all IFR procedures.

Only logging IFR when you are actually in cloud makes no sense. Its as pointless as logging floats only when you are operating on the water, even that's the only time you are actually flying floats.

I know when you are low-time, every .2 counts and is coveted; somebody made the point that during an interview or a test-flight, your real experience and knowledge will be apparent. I can have you do steep turns under a hood or IMC and tell immediately how much experience you have had flying IFR. Your first take-off under IFR rules will tell me way more about your experience than your logbook.

If you apply for a job on a jet, nobody will ask you how much IMC you've got, they will ask you your total turbojet time because ALL of that flying is IFR and they don't care if you are ever IMC....

[Dagwood]

(c) within the six months preceding the flight, acquired six hours of instrument time and completed six instrument approaches to the minima specified in the Canada Air Pilot in an aircraft, in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, while acting as a flight instructor conducting training in respect of the endorsement of a flight crew licence or permit with an instrument rating;

If it's VFR, I still put it in my logbook for 666 purposes. I make a note that it's VFR, and don't add it in the total of IMC/IFR ect.

[Bushav8er]

I log IFR, not IMC. In fact I do not have a column in my log marked IMC, it is marked IFR.

Interesting. My CARs log book has, under the 'Instrument' banner; IMC (actual), Simulated, Flt Sim and No. of IFR Appr. That was then , this is now:

Personal Logs

401.08 (1) Every applicant for, and every holder of, a flight crew permit, licence or rating shall maintain a personal log in accordance with subsection (2) and with the personnel licensing standards for the documentation of

(a) experience acquired in respect of the issuance of the flight crew permit, licence or rating; and
(amended 2001/03/01; previous version)

(b) recency.

(2) A personal log that is maintained for the purposes referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) shall contain the holder's name and the following information in respect of each flight:

(a) the date of the flight;

(b) the type of aircraft and its registration mark;

(c) the flight crew position in which the holder acted;

(d) the flight conditions with respect to day, night, VFR and IFR;

(e) in the case of a flight in a aeroplane or helicopter, the place of departure and the place of arrival;

(f) in the case of a flight in an aeroplane, all of the intermediate take-offs and landings;

(g) the flight time;

(h) in the case of a flight in a glider, the method of launch used for the flight; and

(i) in the case of a flight in a balloon, the method of inflation used for the flight.

[Nordo]

xsbank is 100%

I don't have an IMC column, I have an IFR column, but I have IMC experience and if you want to go for a ride...I will show you. I got my AA's based on 'IFR' and 'hood time' and even a bit of sim. IFR. If you want to put IMC in your logbook, go ahead, but I don't see the purpose....and more over I have never once been asked how much IMC time I had....EVER.

If somebody wanted to know how much time I flew through an actual cloud....I would lie. I am usually flying an airplane and on many an occasion, a little too busy to put a stop watch on my forward visibility.

Maybe they could put a hobbs meter on the pitot tubes....I could go by that!!

[Bushav8er]

xsbank is 100%

Agreed. And I've always felt that "IFR" is more valuable then "IMC" - whats happening out the window is irrelevant when on instruments or when following IF rules.

So, based on CARs, you can log the time as from clearance to canceling IFR, or landing, as IFR.

[Flaperons]

Honestly? Nobody really cares. In the early stages, your Actual should hopefully sit around 10% of your TT. If it's significantly more, those looking at your resume will think you're lying. If it's significantly below 10%, they will think you're under-qualified.

Once you get to RVSM, it's all a load of crap. At 37,000', you are definitely NOT IMC, but try navigating/flying without the AP on by looking out the window. Just doesn't work. Beyond that, nobody ever flies that high without the AP engaged (well, rarely, at best), so why are we logging anything at all?

What I do is take the air time, subtract 0.4, and log the rest as instrument. Ask any 705 guy how many times he's flown an instrument approach down to minimums ("in actual or simulated IMC") and he'll laugh his ass off. So much for currency...

[Matthew]

My log book has a 'Cloud' column. Makes it real easy.

[Steve Baker]

Honestly, at the beginning of a pilots instrument ticket career, IMC as opposed to IFR or simulated IMC is very important. In the years that follow, it looses all importance. I was a 703 chief pilot for two years, I never asked anyone how much IMC time they had. I haven't bothered to log IMC/IFR time in years and that column is wasted space in my log, and I imagine, that of many other pilots.

Flaperons, 705 pilots have no currency requirements, we do a ride every six months, the instrument rating currency requirement of 6 hours and 6 approaches in the previous 6 months only kicks in year two of the validity period. Interestingly, I was talking to an examiner recently and he said that there is a move afoot to do away with the bi-annual ride and go to a system similar to the US where, as long as you maintain the currency requirements, your ticket would stay valid. Discuss.

[Dagwood]

Interestingly, I was talking to an examiner recently and he said that there is a move afoot to do away with the bi-annual ride and go to a system similar to the US where, as long as you maintain the currency requirements, your ticket would stay valid. Discuss.

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