Foreign Nationals flying for Canjet?

[keener flier]

Heard thru the grapevine that Canjet has hired 70+ German pilots with foreign 737 endorsements to fly in Canada with Transat Vacations. My understanding is the government allowed this without a reciprocal agreement because they were classed as "seasonal labourers" (the guys who do the jobs no one else wants, like pick tobacco or cauliflower). As such Canjet Management could hire them for the short winter season without bothering to hire Canadian crews and pay for the expensive type endorsement. This is happening while a lot of pilots are still looking for work, unemployed, or run out of unemployment insurance, especially ex-Zoom pilots with tons of large jet international experience.

Is this true? If it is, how did this get approved from the government with all the layoffs going on?

I think all you float drivers and fire patrol/birddog guys better start looking over your shoulders, being seasonal workers, the management of these companies could tell the government that none of you are current anymore or not endorsed and therefore don't qualify, while having foreign workers come in and take these jobs from you while their new "students" pay for their endorsement with the company and have the enjoyment of working a fun job for the summer. From a management point of view, a pilot is a pilot, and if you can offset your training costs by having them fund it themselves is a huge savings for the company.

[Tango01]

I heard that also. Wouldn't be surprised, our government doesn't protect us.

[macbainz1]

You see this is one of the big issues I have with the industry, not just this industry, the whole country, It is clearly obvious that there's a great big pool of home grown pilots.

A question too the government, why are you letting more and more people in if there are job cuts and we are just out of recession - list list continues.

Canadian Jobs for Canadian People. (stop the bullshit we know there is a supply of people able to employ, just take a look round this site)

[fivemoreminutes]

You do realize that the pilots are coming with the planes as part of the short term agreement. Canjet could and can not train pilots fast enought to fill the flying it needs to do. However, pls send in your resume if you are interested. They will be looking to hire some 30 or more guys in the near future, along with all the pilots they have hired from zoom, cargojet, harmony, sunwing...you get the pic!

[whipline]

You should email your MP's and MPP's and ask them about the decision. I would imagine Canjet would have to prove there isn't Canadian Pilots to hire, which is obviously false. I work for a company that deploys crews overseas but we send more crews across the pond then we take for the winter, meaning a plus for Canadian pilots not a negative. The whole thing with Canjet is a bunch of crap.

[Donald]

Realistically, how many qualified NG type-rated captains are you going to find in Canada willing to work for $80K/year? I could see someone from Sunwing jumping, maybe, if they wanted to live on the east coast. But then again I believe the Sunwing pilots are bonded, are they not? Other than that example, I can't see CJ getting many Canadian applicants.

[whipline]

Who says you need to be type rated? Last time I checked new hires are trained on type. Signing a deal to run X amount of airplanes knowing full well your not going to use Canadian pilots to save on costs is BS any way you want to slice it. I still can't believe the TS pilots are putting up with this not to mention Canadian pilots with enough experience to fly one. If they can't crew the aircraft with Canadian pilots or come up with a reciprical agreement with European ones they shouldn't be allowed to continue this pratice.

The more I think about this the more it pisses me off, time to email my MP.

[loopa]

5000 hours and a 737 type rating? Where do you find a pilot like such in Canada? It was a long time ago when a canadian operator flew the 737 classics right?

Maybe if they drop their requirements and train the pilot's that would be a better way to contribute to the canadian market?

[AAAME]

Do you people know how many Canadian pilots that are flying in other countries?
We are sought after and welcomed there with open arms,and treated better there then here.
So please return the hospitality to these Contract pilots.
They are just trying to make a living like the rest of us.
And trying to get them banned by are ill informed MP's will do us more harm then good.

[Legacy]

And there contract doesn't say anything about this?

[Donald]

As to salary, I see they have upped it to a whopping $85K. Regarding type ratings:

Seasonal Direct Entry Captains - YHZ/ YYZ/ YUL/ YVR

Job Code: CJ334
Division: Airline
Title: Seasonal Direct Entry Captains - YHZ/ YYZ/ YUL/ YVR
Position Status: Temporary*
City: Halifax
State/Province: Nova Scotia



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Description

JOB POSTING NUMBER: CJ334

*When applying, please reference this job posting number on your cover letter.



Company Description:




CanJet Airlines, a division of IMP Group Limited, Halifax, Nova Scotia, is a full-service charter airline. With experienced flight crews, a skilled management team, a knowledgeable support staff and a fleet of Boeing 737-800 aircraft. CanJet Airlines guarantees value, comfort and convenience on every charter flight.



We are currently seeking qualified Seasonal Direct Entry Captains. (October 2009 – May 2010)



Qualifications:

Must have Airline Transport Pilot License and a minimum of 5000 hours total jet experience.
Type rated on a variant of the B737 NG aircraft (6/7/800).
Have at least 500 hours as PIC on a variant of the B737 NG aircraft Radio Operator’s Certificate.
Above Average communication and interpersonal skills.
Ability to perform effectively as a CanJet team member.
Must be able to successfully pass Transport Canada Medical.
Must have or have the ability to obtain and maintain a valid passport.
Must have or have the ability to obtain and maintain Transport Canada Restricted Area Pass.
Canadian Citizen or Landed Immigrant Status (in possession of Permanent Resident card) with the ability to travel without restriction.
Live within 2 hours ground transportation of YHZ, YUL, YYZ, or YVR International Airports.
Motivated, career minded individual who can positively contribute to our diverse culture and business model.

Salary = $85,000 (training salary is $40,000 for up to 60 days)

Individuals meeting the required qualifications are invited to apply for this exciting career opportunity.

CanJet Airlines promotes diversity in the workplace and we encourage women, visible minorities, aboriginal peoples, and persons with disabilities to voluntarily self-identify. Any information provided will remain strictly confidential.

We thank all applicants for their interest, however please note that only candidates selected for an interview will be contacted. No telephone inquiries please.

[chopsticks]

AAAME, pilots who get jobs in other countries do so only when there aren't enough of their own nationals to do the job. That is not the case in Canada! The only thing that's happening is that Canjet is getting away with not having to pay for training and undercutting their Canadian competition and employing foreigners when there are plenty of people willing to do the job.

Don't you think it would have been far more beneficial to Canada to have Jazz, Skyservice, or Enerjet operate these flights with Canadian pilots?

Sorry, but it's disgusting that Canjet is getting away with this without a reciprocal agreement.

[loopa]

AAAME, pilots who get jobs in other countries do so only when there aren't enough of their own nationals to do the job. That is not the case in Canada! The only thing that's happening is that Canjet is getting away with not having to pay for training and undercutting their Canadian competition and employing foreigners when there are plenty of people willing to do the job.

Don't you think it would have been far more beneficial to Canada to have Jazz, Skyservice, or Enerjet operate these flights with Canadian pilots?

Sorry, but it's disgusting that Canjet is getting away with this without a reciprocal agreement.

I just don't get why they don't train their own guys. Now that I see it's 737 NG's... Do we have many 737 NG pilot's in Canada who have time on type and are already not employed by another airline?

I'd like to think that most of the Canadian NG pilot's are either flying for Sunwing or WestJet or some random private operator. In my opinion it's a pointless requirement to place in the Canadian market where everybody get's to that Jet job through working the lower corridors of the industry. In my opinion they're simply saying that we don't have enough Canadians an we certainly don't have "ANY" Canadians who would be able to train for the job either. Stupid.

Just like you said chopstick, get an agreement with like ACA, WJA, Enerjet... etc. Guys who aren't faced with a "new" way of flying. I don't even see why an experienced turbo prop pilot couldn't get on board with them and train for the job. Isn't that how there's movement in this industry?

In my opinion you will seldom find any 737 NG pilot's in Canada who are currently employed. Canjet's requirements are similar to Qatar and Air Arabia where they take Canadian and other expact pilot's with a current type rating and time on type. Just like chopstick said, this requirement in my opinion is disgusting.

For somebody in the European Market, they purchase their type rating, apply at airlines, fly for 6 months and voila... 500 hrs on type. Hence making sense why we have German expact's coming over.

[whipline]

I just sent off an email to my MP Michael Ignatieff. I suggest everyone else who thinks its wrong to give away jobs to Foreign pilots do the same. I won't stop until I get an answer on how Canjet got approval to hire from outside the Country when there is a large pool of qualified pilots here to do the work.

Canjet may as well put in their add Space Shuttle time only need apply. They knew they weren't going to get type rated pilots from day one. Its also not required and they know it. They also knew when they signed the deal with AT they wouldn't have enough Canadian pilots. The entire thing stinks and needs to be stopped.

[Double Wasp]

I just sent off an email to my MP Michael Ignatieff

This wouldn't be the same Michael Ignatieff who was working as a proffessor at Havard University in the US, taking a job from a US professor, now would it?

Sorry couldn't resist.
DW

[buzzjob]

I was not going to reply to this post, because it seems to come around on a fairly regular basis. Seeing as no one else (who know anything about the topic) has replied, I might as well be the one to shed some light.

Fact 1: Canjet has been hiring continuously for over a year now. The seniority list has at least doubled.

Fact 2: Many of the new hires have come from other airline layoffs Cargojet, Zoom, Sky...some are leaving Sunwing and Jazz because of the better life at Canjet.

Fact 3: Canjet cannot train enough non-rated pilots to bring the numbers up to what is required for the winter flying in such a short period of time.

Fact 4: Non-rated hiring and training will start again in the new year. This time next year we may not need anywhere near as many contract pilots.

Fact 5: The original number of contract pilots required was in the 80s, now because of the hiring done in the past year the have brought the requirement down to 52 (plus or minus a couple I can't remember exactly).

A reciprical agreement has not been a priority for Canjet up to this point. I am pretty sure that they are considering something for next summer (assuming ALPA is ok with it), or they have other plans to keep everyone busy during the slow season.

Now can we all stop complaining about something we know nothing about and go back to drinking our beers and b**ch about the Leafs.

[Panama Jack]

This type of silly thread comes up once every year.

[whipline]

How is this thread silly Panama? Is it silly for experienced Canadian pilots looking for work? Maybe this thread comes up a lot for a good reason?

Buzz to recap what you just wrote. Canjet took on more work then they were capable of flying, which they would have known prior to taking on the work. They have contract pilots flying in Canada without a reciprical agreement. They have no future plans for one. They hired experienced Canadian pilots. Thanks for recaping the reasons this shouldn't be taking place.

I don't care if the number is 10 or 52 or 68 (last number I heard). Thats the number of Canadian pilots that should have been hired. I can see a company getting away with it for a year but not more then one with no end in sight. Even more so when they knew they could never fill the seats to begin with and have no inclanation to find work in Europe.

Enjoy your beer, is it German?

PS and yes my MP is the same American/Brit who came back to attempt to run a Country he hasn't lived in most of his adult life. And no I didn't vote for him.

[Legacy]

Buzzjob. I cant agree with your point 3. Canjet knew many months ago this was coming. they could have trained in time

[Panama Jack]

Yes it is silly whipline because this debate remerges every year over the same arguement.

Everybody raises a ruckus when a few foreign pilots come for a few months to fill a position, but nobody seems to object when Canadian pilots are sent to Europe for a season to fill in.

Nobody seems to object of the tons of Canadian pilots flying overseas on an almost permanent either-- and don't believe for one moment that we have vastly superior qualifications or that there is any kind of a shortage of qualified personnel. What goes around, comes around and applying what you advocate would mean thousands of Canadian pilots "coming back home." Part of the reason why there is upward movement in Canadian aviation is actually because a number of pilots have moved "up and out."

As for Canjet's decision to contract expats-- there is an opening for qualified and experienced personel. If you meet the qualifications-- apply-- I am sure they will be pleased to talk with you and hire someone who can hit the ground running. The reason why they are looking overseas is because they need people who can fly the airplane in short order. I am not sure what facet of aviation you are involved in, but it is not possible to bring someone from a turboprop or a light jet and have them qualified and experienced to fly a Boeing in a space of one or two months. The "pinch hitters" allow the airline to expand into markets where and when they see the opportunity and when they have the airplanes come on-line. They will have to plan, of course, for more perment staff too-- which is when and where you might find your job. But if they cannot respond to changes in demand then there is no business growth, and no new opportunities for locals, which means a longer Piper Navajo or Dash 8 career for someone out there.

[loopa]

Hey Panama, how's things going?

I just wanted to point out a few things, and please don't take it the wrong way. I respect your experience level and hey, those chats are fun !

If you meet the qualifications-- apply-- I am sure they will be pleased to talk with you and hire someone who can hit the ground running

I think what most people including my self are bitter about is that there aren't many qualified individuals in Canada who have an NG type rating and 500 hours on type that are available for work. They are probably already employed by one of our major carriers. Canjet definitely saw this coming.

I am not sure what facet of aviation you are involved in, but it is not possible to bring someone from a turboprop or a light jet and have them qualified and experienced to fly a Boeing in a space of one or two months.

There's at least one operator who's able to do this in 6 weeks. And from what I've witnessed, they're an excellent company as well.

So I definitely think that getting candidates properly type rated and line indocked might be a matter of 2-3 months at the most. I know Air Canada is 3.

With that in mind, I think Canjet could really have done the same as well.


However, what you did say about people jumping onto the bandwagon with respect to foreign pilot's in Canada and not Canadian pilot's in foreign countries makes sense.


But you can see how a strategic plan could of actually improved hires within the country right?


I don't know, that's just my 2 cents. I'll leave the real talk with you guys established in the industry

[buzzjob]

I don't get what you guys are missing. Canjet HAS been hiring steadily for the last year!! We (CJA pilots) have been sitting on our collective arses for over 6 months, waiting for the winter flying season.

What Panama said is absolutely correct that it takes 3 months to bring someone on from scratch, add on recurrent training and it doesn't take long to tax a training dept to its limits (and yes Canjet has been expanding the trainiing dept as well to accomodate the addt'l training).

In a perfect world, there would be no need for contract pilots. Unfortunately they are necessary sometimes and CJA is doing a very good job hiring permanent pilots to decrease the need for contract.

I (IMHO) believe that Canjet is attempting to build a solid year-round operation. The winter season is very busy, the summer season is work in progress. I would like to see a summer that has crews based in Canada, not 6 months overseas. This year might see some contract work in Europe, hopefully next year will not. I (and I think most of us) do not want deployments.

Slow and steady wins the race! I certainly do not need another airline to add to my resume. I would really like some longevity in this business. So be happy that someone is trying to build a reputable airline in the country, with good management, good machines and a solid year round schedule.

If you want a job at Canjet, apply, they are hiring NTRs (again) very soon. Mind you with some of the attitude shown here I would recommend keeping your resume to yourself!

[HavaJava]

This is FRAUD, pure and simple.

Every other charter company in Canada who brings in foreign national contractors has a reciprical agreement in place where they must send Canadian nationals overseas to balance it out. This helps to mitigate seasonal layoffs. These companies have to find the time and money to train sufficient amounts of Canadian crews whether these crews come type-rated or not. Canjet has found a loophole (I doubt it is a legal loophole) where they can avoid the training costs that their competition must undertake. If Canjet had a reciprical agreement in place then it would be fair, but as it is right now it is a clear violation of competition laws. It pisses me off that certain companies (more often than not east coast companies) think the can get away with this shit.

And yes, I have worked overseas, but I've also experienced being laid-off when the foreign company started a cadet program to encourage local kids to start flying. I fully supported their initiative because I knew that country needed to support it's own people first. Likewise, Canada has to stop bulls#it companies like Canjet from abusing the system and ripping off not only Canadian pilots but their competition.

[confuzed]

This is FRAUD, pure and simple.

Every other charter company in Canada who brings in foreign national contractors has a reciprical agreement in place where they must send Canadian nationals overseas to balance it out. This helps to mitigate seasonal layoffs. These companies have to find the time and money to train sufficient amounts of Canadian crews whether these crews come type-rated or not. Canjet has found a loophole (I doubt it is a legal loophole) where they can avoid the training costs that their competition must undertake. If Canjet had a reciprical agreement in place then it would be fair, but as it is right now it is a clear violation of competition laws. It pisses me off that certain companies (more often than not east coast companies) think the can get away with this shit.

And yes, I have worked overseas, but I've also experienced being laid-off when the foreign company started a cadet program to encourage local kids to start flying. I fully supported their initiative because I knew that country needed to support it's own people first. Likewise, Canada has to stop bulls#it companies like Canjet from abusing the system and ripping off not only Canadian pilots but their competition.

You know, I have a lot of friends at Canjet and by you insulting them it pisses me off a bit. Have you even grasped the concept that people from this airline have tried to explain to you? I think it was buzzjob who mentioned that they have been HIRING pilots for the last year (and from what I can gather the ONLY airline that's been hiring consistently this year...someone here even mentioned that they doubled their pilot staff), but there's only so much a training department can do. Other airlines can train faster as their departments are larger and they fly scheduled routes all year round. When your busy season is only 6 months long and you have recurrrent training as well as new hire training it doesn't take long to overstress things. Things get backed up. From what I'm told they hired a little over 60 people last year with more to come next year...that's third hand information though. Regardless, those who are bitter have some serious self issues I think. Besides, who told you they hire people with an NG type rating?? That's not what I've heard....didn't a bunch of ex cargojet and zoom people go there??

Anyway, in a perfect world I'm sure they would hire locals only...Don't forget the economy is also affecting airlines in Europe as well......so if there's layoffs there then how is a reciprocal agreement supposed to work again??? In order to deploy people to work overseas, there has to be work to send them too.

[TA/RA]

I think we are all being a bit selfish!

Sure on the surface it is easy to think that Hans and Ludwig from Germany are coming over here and taking "our" seasonal jobs. When on the other foot sunwing sends our Canadian pilots to Europe during our summer. And up until recently Borek had crews going to the Maldives and Canadian's continue to work there. Doesn't it work both ways?

By sending our guys and gals overseas they are guaranteed full time work year round. If it wasn't for other companies having agreements with Canadian companies in Europe and Asia there would be far more pilots relying on EI.

I think we should keep an open mind and as long as it is reciprocal on the broad scheme we should relax and enjoy the benefits that such an agreement provides.

I may be wrong but thats my 2 cents