Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

[Jaques Strappe]

Jeeze, you guys are making fun of Transport guys having a movie night watching the show and looking for violations when your way worse!!

Put the CARs away and enjoy the show

Plus 1000

[Meatservo]

gianthammer: Is faster more important than safe?

Yup. That's one reason people started using aeroplanes when there were perfectly good trains around.

[canwhitewolf]

I would say I'm amazed at the number of people here looking for nothing but violations in this show but then I'd be a liar.

I would say I'm amazed at the number of people on here defending the violations in this show. I guess we should all go to work for MOT and WCB and just turn our back.

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Ive just been watching and enjoying the show not looking for anything that you suggest as a violation , could you name the things you consider violations that you've observed from the first 3 shows

[godsrcrazy]

I would say I'm amazed at the number of people here looking for nothing but violations in this show but then I'd be a liar.

I would say I'm amazed at the number of people on here defending the violations in this show. I guess we should all go to work for MOT and WCB and just turn our back.

**********************************************************************

Ive just been watching and enjoying the show not looking for anything that you suggest as a violation , could you name the things you consider violations that you've observed from the first 3 shows

WCB not properly tied off after being more then 8 feet of the ground.

MOT person flying an aircraft in the left seat with zero training on type while operating a sched flight. You can say what you want about joe being behind he wasn't in the seat.
How many certified seats for pax are in a C-46 out DC-4

[Brewguy]

...I wonder what widow thinks of this whole thing, she will tell us if it is safe or not....

Uh, no. She may offer an opinion on what she believes is safe, or not... This industry, and this forum are full of both experts, and armchair experts alike - any of whom can only offer their opinions.

Nothing against Widow, but she's not some sort of judge rendering an official verdict here. But all opinions are welcome, especially from those who backup their opinions with some fact or reasoning.

Personally, you wouldn't find me up on top of some wind swept, frozen, slippery chunk of metal sweeping snow - as I'm one of those people who, despite being a pilot, am not good with heights (ladders and such). But that's just me. Having worked a bit in construction & industrial settings, I find it difficult to believe its legal to work up there without fall arrest equipment.

[sky's the limit]

Ah yes,

An industry full of young and indestructible people... I know I'm getting old now, because I used to sound the same. These days however, and also having a lot more experience in work/life, I tend to fully agree with Brewguy's statement below.

Having worked a bit in construction & industrial settings, I find it difficult to believe its legal to work up there without fall arrest equipment.

Either way, there will always be a balance to be stuck between getting jobs completed quickly, yet safely. And sometimes, that's a fine line.

stl

[cyxe]

These days however, and also having a lot more experience in work/life, I tend to fully agree with Brewguy's statement below.

Having worked a bit in construction & industrial settings, I find it difficult to believe its legal to work up there without fall arrest equipment.

Either way, there will always be a balance to be stuck between getting jobs completed quickly, yet safely. And sometimes, that's a fine line.

stl

To the best of my knowledge, it's not legal....reminds me of that "old pilot bold pilot" saying...

[IcePilotsNWT]

Hello all,
I've noticed a lot of chatter on the boards about the show. Definitely seems that many of you are watching.

We have a "Watch and Win" trivia contest beginning on Wednesday, December 9th, and running throughout the remainder of 2009, with opportunities to win great Ice Pilots NWT and Buffalo Airways exclusive swag.

For full details, rules and to play, visit http://www.icepilots.com/trivia_contest.php

Best of luck, and happy holidays!

[Prairie Chicken]

There's lots of good stuff at that site, including some nice images of the a/c.

[FastFlyBy]

-I wonder if theres a crab fishermens board with ppl complaining about "The Deadliest Catch"

A quick google search turned up this:
http://www.deadliest-catch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=74

[rotorfloat]

A link from within FastFlyBy's link:

Reputable boat operators rarely have serious mishaps, nor do they lose good crew members through misunderstandings. It is a good idea to find out why the departed crew member left. A vessel with numerous crew vacancies during the harvest season warrants investigation before new crew accept a job on it

Change boat for aircraft....

[FastFlyBy]

Quote from the same site, kinda sounds like the industries really aren't that much different.

"Fishing is dwindling out here and it will be a long time before the sea recovers from the abuses of the boom years. So don't expect to get a good boat the first time you pound the docks and don't expect to get paid your first few trips out. A lot of the boats who will hire greenhorns aren't making any money, so they take anyone dumb enough to work for them.

Fishing is a way of life. If you aren't doing this as a career change from whatever you knew before, then don't come out here. And if you don't love the sea no matter how hatefully it treats you, don't come out here. If you don't like being cold, over-worked and underpaid, don't come out here. If you don't like being tired and never getting any sleep or very little, don't come out here.

This industry is not for people who are lazy and love comfort. A certain amount of insanity and masochism goes a long way in helping you through the endless days. One boat had this motto painted on its wheelhouse: The only easy day was yesterday.

There is a painful truth in that motto, one that should be heeded well. Nothing can prepare you for what you will encounter out here. Either you have the mettle and salt to make it, or you never should have come."

[canwhitewolf]

[/quote]
Ive just been watching and enjoying the show not looking for anything that you suggest as a violation , could you name the things you consider violations that you've observed from the first 3 shows[/quote]


WCB not properly tied off after being more then 8 feet of the ground.

MOT person flying an aircraft in the left seat with zero training on type while operating a sched flight. You can say what you want about joe being behind he wasn't in the seat.
How many certified seats for pax are in a C-46 out DC-4[/quote]
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and you consider these violations valid when operating in the north, im not sure those are really violations myself

I thought you were talking about overweight aircraft, busting minimums in bad weather or flying vfr rules in IMC condiitons, or something else of real importance

I think they do a good job and are a close knit family of people who are doing the best they can to ensure good service and safe flying

hate when they walk on that wing though

just my humble opinion

[sarg]

So then is there an exemption to WCB rules governing fall protection? In particular that you MUST have fall protection above 2.4m?

My guess is that is why blueoval56 didn't get anything from WCB, claim denied due wllfully disregarding safety regs.

Disregard for existing safety regs does not preclude you from getting WCB coverage. That is the whole point of WCB coverage in Canada - no fault insurance in exchange for not being able to sue the employer. (google "meredith principles" if you're interested in the history of that reasoning)

Airlines fall under Federal OHS regulations (Labour Canada). I would be interested to see what they say about cleaning wings that way.

Yeah, airlines are regulated by the federal labour code, but WCB is a provincial or territorial area.

From Labour Canada Website:

While these programs are largely administered by provincial and territorial governments in Canada,

Check out the link from the NT WCB website both the employer and employee have responsibilites. Read all the parts of the Meredith principles, not just the parts you like. The reason they have an appeals board is that not all claims are approved.

Part 4 of the 5 parts of the Meredith principles
Exclusive jurisdiction: All compensation claims are directed solely to the compensation board. The board is the decision-maker and final authority for all claims. The board is not bound by legal precedent; it has the power and authority to judge each case on its individual merits.

So, it goes something like this employer tells you the regulation, has the safety equipment on site, you decide not to use it because you can work faster and it's easier for you. Claim denied.


http://www.wcb.nt.ca/workers/rights_res ... llow_rules

[godsrcrazy]

Ive just been watching and enjoying the show not looking for anything that you suggest as a violation , could you name the things you consider violations that you've observed from the first 3 shows[/quote]


WCB not properly tied off after being more then 8 feet of the ground.

MOT person flying an aircraft in the left seat with zero training on type while operating a sched flight. You can say what you want about joe being behind he wasn't in the seat.
How many certified seats for pax are in a C-46 out DC-4[/quote]
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and you consider these violations valid when operating in the north, im not sure those are really violations myself

I thought you were talking about overweight aircraft, busting minimums in bad weather or flying vfr rules in IMC condiitons, or something else of real importance

I think they do a good job and are a close knit family of people who are doing the best they can to ensure good service and safe flying

hate when they walk on that wing though

just my humble opinion[/quote]


Ok so now i think your screwing with me. You obviously can't be serious.

[Driving Rain]

This show takes me back to 1971/72 & my crewman days at Austin Airways. Jez the DC 3's and the PBY's were only 28 to 30 years old then, practically new!
Winter ops. in northern P.Q. hauling drill rod, sleeping in a prospectors tent by a lake at 45 below, babysitting a Herman Nelson for 4 hours at dawn, pulling wing covers or sweeping wings, loading and unloading barrels, drills, drill rod, lumber and plywood without fork lifts up to 6 times a day.... great times.

[Rubberbiscuit]

This show takes me back to 1971/72 & my crewman days at Austin Airways. Jez the DC 3's and the PBY's were only 28 to 30 years old then, practically new!
Winter ops. in northern P.Q. hauling drill rod, sleeping in a prospectors tent by a lake at 45 below, babysitting a Herman Nelson for 4 hours at dawn, pulling wing covers or sweeping wings, loading and unloading barrels, drills, drill rod, lumber and plywood without fork lifts up to 6 times a day.... great times.

All in a days work when leading the glamorous life of a pilot!

[302sc]

Winter ops. in northern P.Q. hauling drill rod, sleeping in a prospectors tent by a lake at 45 below, babysitting a Herman Nelson for 4 hours at dawn, pulling wing covers or sweeping wings, loading and unloading barrels, drills, drill rod, lumber and plywood without fork lifts up to 6 times a day.... great times.


yes!!!! while you at austin and me at saint felicien & laurentian air service et al!! a lot more older pilots who probably do not watch the show could relate to that as well, and not to be forgotten, the motherlode of NWO winter aviation center , wiebenville!!! could write a book about the wild and weird stuff that took place over there,I better not regurgitate anything in case prescription has not run its course.

[gianthammer]

Winter ops. in northern P.Q. hauling drill rod, sleeping in a prospectors tent by a lake at 45 below, babysitting a Herman Nelson for 4 hours at dawn, pulling wing covers or sweeping wings, loading and unloading barrels, drills, drill rod, lumber and plywood without fork lifts up to 6 times a day.... great times.


yes!!!! while you at austin and me at saint felicien & laurentian air service et al!! a lot more older pilots who probably do not watch the show could relate to that as well, and not to be forgotten, the motherlode of NWO winter aviation center , wiebenville!!! could write a book about the wild and weird stuff that took place over there,

Wow!!!!! I wonder what WCB and TC thought of that blah blah blah boo hoo hoo and you guys say your still alive to talk about it today well I never thought I'd see the day where a man/lady might actually earn his/her keep working for a company all the while doing things that are oh so dangerous:

[godsrcrazy]

If you were in this industry 20 plus years ago you probably broke more then 1 rule. People riding on sleeping bags, boxes etc with no restraints were part of the biz.

I know i have certainly done thinks that broke the rules. I guess the difference is i took the chance of some one actually having to catch me. I didn't have someone video camera putting it on national TV.

If Joe walks out of this with no grief from any authorities well then good for him. I don't have to worry about some inspector ramping me anymore. Giving me a hard time about if i have the load secured.

[sky's the limit]

If you were in this industry 20 plus years ago you probably broke more then 1 rule. People riding on sleeping bags, boxes etc with no restraints were part of the biz.

So true, and a lot less than 20yrs ago... I remember having people wedged between the roof and the top of coolers or boxes of groceries.... The things you do when you're young.

stl

[302sc]

Wow!!!!! I wonder what WCB and TC thought of that blah blah blah boo hoo hoo and you guys say your still alive to talk about it today well I never thought I'd see the day where a man/lady might actually earn his/her keep working for a company all the while doing things that are oh so dangerous:

I never said dangerous I said wild and weird albeit sometime with some elements of danger
remember danger is a subjective matter like icing in flight what is severe for some is moderate for others etc etc..

and back then (early seventies)you entered the bush aviation world without a lot of preconceived views on the business of floats and ski operations I would insofar say that the general ability of that community of pilots in the north eventually and in part provided some of the basic tenets found in today's CARs for bush operation.
even some of today TC inspectors might themselves remember those days..

[302sc]

now let's just get back to the show and enjoy the riff raff so well distilled by omni production for the plebeian masses , another 9 episodes to go and with luck I might see what I look like on the tube!!

[godsrcrazy]

now let's just get back to the show and enjoy the riff raff so well distilled by omni production for the plebeian masses , another 9 episodes to go and with luck I might see what I look like on the tube!!

i guess we all now know why are defending this with your blah blah blah boo hoo hoo comments. Speaking of icing i wonder what CARs say's about flying an aircraft with no deicing into know icing hmmmm.

[NovaBoy]

All you folks worried about CAR's and WCB rules need to sit back and take a chill pill. Enjoy the show for what it is...entertainment.
You'll never survive working up north if you don't bend or break some CAR's or WCB rules. That's life, get over it. If any of you think you can go up north to work, and follow the rules to the letter.....well you won't last long. I'm not saying compromise on safety, just sometimes you need to get the job done.