PRM Exam & Interview Advice

[DareDevil]

I have recently been asked to become the companies new PRM and I am looking for any sort of exam questions, interview thoughts or just overall advice.

Id like to be successfull at this position and fully understand it, not just pass the exam/interview....even if you could point me in the appropriate direction on this website or another would be fantastic. I dont have a maintenance background unfortunately as I am a pilot, dont exactly have a lot of support on my end either. Lastly, its a 703 operation that is moving international....

Anything would be greatly appreciated

[hz2p]

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[624]

You don't need to have a maintenance background to be prm. You need to understand your maintenance control system.

If I was you, I would buy CAR's for the AME and read through it. That should take care of the exam. Then for the interview you need to know 726.03

Everything that you need to know regarding 726.03 will be found in the company mcm.

[Bullet Remington]

You have already been warned!!LOL you have no maintenance background and you want to become a PRM for a 703 operator that's going international??? Really???

Here's a thought, I know a couple of engineers that have NO FLIGHT OPS EXPERIENCE AND NO FLIGHT BACKGROUND AT ALL - how about you have the company make one of them the Ops manager and Chief Pilot!! And let me know how that works for your flight department, Ya think the drivers are going to accept that??

IF your company has its own AMO then the Director of Maintenance for the AMO must be the PRM. If your company doesn't have an AMO and is planning on going international with Pilot PRM, Start looking for another job!

While the practice of allowing non maintenance types to become PRM has been sancationed ny TCCA, I have yet to see a company walk through an audit unscathed, with a driver PRM.

AND when, not if, something goes into a monkey motion, its gonns be your arse on the line!! That's when they call me in to fix the fugg ups!! So my recommendation is to take the job. You know how to contact me. When you fall on your arse, just tell the owners to pop an e mail out to me. And I'll have an engineer fix it!!

Frankly, I think it should be outlawed and the way it was before, Unfortunately TCCA caved in to the cheap SOBS and it will remain that way until some one sewers one in with a full cabin. then they'll change it! that's the way TCCA works!!

[hz2p]

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[Widgeon Guy]

You maybe able to do the exam and the interview, that is the easy part. I know lots of AME's that would but be-able to do this and be happy, You are taking on a huge responsibility. You get pressure from all directions, pilots, AME's, The accountable executive and transport canada. The SMS will not be easy also. I wouldn't what the job haveing done it for a couple of years. The maintenance back ground I would say is what would give you the back ground to make the decisions and then stick to them. Just remember the future of the company and peoples lives and livelihoods are in your decisions. I know very strong individuals with the back ground that in a weak moment let a experienced pilot,AME and or most likely the owner brow beat them into letting something stupid happen and that was the end of their career. It is not just knowing the rules.
May the force be with you Luke

[Widgeon Guy]

So not to crap on you, but if you do intend on doing this, do all us maintenance people a favour. Get rid of the name and the funny upside down saying that and that kind of attitude does not fit into the job.

Thanks

[Cat Driver]

Transport Canada has come up with some real gems in their requirements for personnel positions in aviation companies but their requirements for the position of PRM is arguably the stupidest idea ever to be dreamed up since the Wright Brothers started this business.

It never ceases to amaze me some of the people who have been approved as PRM by T.C. , hell some of them couldn't figure out how to check the oil never mind know what airworthy means.

[624]

Everything that you need to know regarding 726.03 will be found in the company mcm.

As funny as this may sound it's what you need to know to pass the interview. You need to know the maintenance schedule for your aircraft(s) as well. If your a pilot for that company then you should already be familiar with the mcm.

Once you've read through the above, you will have an idea of what is expected of you. You can then make the decision of whether you still want to do this job.

Once you are prm and you have a decision to make about maintenance scheduling, snag deferral, etc. that your not sure about; call your amo. They can advise you. If your still uncertain, call your transport Canada principle maintenance inspector. This is what your expected to do and it's probably something they will ask you on your interview.

[brownbear]

Since you won't have an AMO of your own being a non AME I don't see the problem.

Basically you will be scheduling work to take to the AMO. You have to ensure they are doing the work in accordance with your MCM. They take the liability of not doing the work properly.

Memorize your MCM. Study Cars for the AME for the test. Read 726 like said above.

What's the big deal?

Schedule maint, ensure all AD/SB are complied with and that the MCM is followed...

The PRM of a combined AOC and AMO is a little different. There you need to understand the standards are being done correctly etc. Non AME's could not do it.

Cheers, BB

[hz2p]

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[brownbear]

Hypothetical, you are the prm of a 703 operator and take your airplane with to an AMO with five items to be carried out. You provide a PO and maintenance agreement. The AMO is properly rated for your aircraft type. The AMO provides the work, and work is signed off in your Journey Log Book. You review the work to ensure it was completed and the log entries are correct for what you wanted completed.

The performance of the work liability is carried by the AMO. The PRM of the 703 AOC has satisfied his/her end of the bargin. Now the PRM of the AMO you took the plane to has the responsibility that the work was carried out correctly to the applicable standards. They signed out the plane.

The PRM does shed responsibility by taking it to a properly rated AMO, having an agreement and ensuring the work carried out was complete in the log book.

The responsibility the PRM of the AOC does not shed is ensuring that they are completing the work asked for. And if the AMO is not living up to its end of the bargain and it appears they are not following your MCM then you need to take the appropriate measures.

[hz2p]

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[Bullet Remington]

Brownbear:

I'd like to see where you get your information. I'm referring to your statement "the performance of work liability is carried by the AMO."" Huh, You care to calify?? The liability for the serviceability of ANY aircraft is that of the owner / operator. The AMO has Absolutely NO liability for the serviceablitity of the aircraft.

Just to clarify, I'm assuming that your statement implies that the responsibility for the serviceability of the aircraft is passed to the AMO AFTER a PO / WORK order is provided to the aircraft.

Esssentially, the responsibility for everything applicable to the aircraft, and that includes maintenance, SB's, AD.S, C of A, C of R , etc, is the OWNER's responsibility. TCCA removed ALL responsibility from the AME.

IF some Jack - Off Operator wants a driver in charge of maintenance, have at her. They have no fugging idea what they are doing. I have had some of these Bimbos, pass me a work order to complete, with two ADs on it while the C of A was expired becaue the phase IV inspection wasn't done. The first time he did this I told him. The second and third time, I didn't bother wasting my breath, Wasn't my job nor responsibility.

So, hey if an operator wants to pay shit to a driver to be a PRM, have at her!! I'll do exactly whats written down and only that, cuz if it ain't written down , it never happened. I have no responsinilty for the serviceability of his aircraft - the PRM does!!

Frankly, I think any driver taking on this job deserves to be screwed over. If a fool takes a job he knows nothing about, he deserves what he gets and that's usually punted when something goes wrong!


They'll call me or somebody else after TCCA fines them and pulls their C of A, OC tc.

When they let an AME be OPS Manager / Chief Driver, maybe I'll give a shit! BUT IF they're gonna keep screwing over the AME's F* em!

Oh just to be clear, I have both licenses! Driver and AME

[Dr. Mcillicuddy]

As ive said before, Youi can always tell an old country englishman. BUT ytou cant tell them much.

[Bullet Remington]

As ive said before, Youi can always tell an old country englishman. BUT ytou cant tell them much.

Well you can't tell me and I ain't no feckin Brit!! And despite what anybody tells you otherwise, my parents WERE married when I was concieved!

BR

[brownbear]

Hey Bullet,

I'm not disagreeing with what you just said. I agree with you.

The AMO is not responsible for the serviceability of the aircraft. That is not what I wanted to convey. They are responsible for what work they perform and the standards it was performed to. Which is what their PRM is responsible for.

The AOC PRM is responsible for the serviceability of the aircraft they operate.

As long as the AOC PRM knows what is due and takes it to the AMO and gets the work done there isn't an issue. The AMo will only do what is on the PO. When they do it they are responsible for what they did.

The PRM of the AOC will be responsible to ensure the work was done and is signed off properly.

I agree that the PRM should be an AME. But if the company is small enough and the driver is well versed in what the maint schedules are and can ensure the work is being done. It shouldn't be a problem IMOP.

[Widgeon Guy]

This is from another posting on the site looking for a PRM.

Job Description:
• Liaison with TC.
• Responsible for the airworthiness of all company aircraft, including ADs and SBs.
• Responsible for and maintains all aircraft logs and records in a timely and accurate manner.
• Responsible for currency and completeness of the MCM.
• Responsible to ensure that all maintenance performed on company aircraft is performed and recorded in accordance with the CARs, as well as company policies and procedures.
• Plans and coordinates all scheduled and unscheduled maintenance with the AMO.
• Reviews all aircraft defects on company aircraft for airworthiness, deferral, and repair scheduling.
• Responsible for the company’s quality program.
• Responsible to maintain the first aid kit and survival kit on board company aircraft.
• Provides timely and up to date reports on the status of all company aircraft to the operations manager.
• Ensures that company aircraft are kept clean and tidy at all times.
• Maintains and keeps up to date the electronic maintenance scheduling program.
• Advises and assists the AMO in parts sourcing for company aircraft.
• Serves as the primary contact for the AMO.
• Any other responsibilities mandated by the MCM, the CARs, and/or tasks assigned by the Operations Manager.

Qualifications:
• Exceptional organizational and time management skills.
• Ability to work as part of a team and independently.
• Exceptional knowledge of CARs
• Excellent technical knowledge of aircraft – AME license required.
• Above average computer skills.
• Excellent written and oral communication skills.
• Excellent problem solving skills.
• Minimum 10 years experience in aircraft maintenance.

[Bullet Remington]

Hey Bullet,

I'm not disagreeing with what you just said. I agree with you.

The AMO is not responsible for the serviceability of the aircraft. That is not what I wanted to convey. They are responsible for what work they perform and the standards it was performed to. Which is what their PRM is responsible for.

I agree that the PRM should be an AME. But if the company is small enough and the driver is well versed in what the maint schedules are and can ensure the work is being done. It shouldn't be a problem IMOP.

Brown bear: OK essentially we're on the same page. BUT I do have to disagree with you on a couple of points:

1 - referencing AMOs you stated: "and the standards it is performed to."- Sorry, I have to disagree with you there. having owned several AMO's when an Operator comes into my shop, my maintenance POLICY manual is an anchor. HOWEVER, the standards listed in the OPERATOR'S maintenance CONTROL manual become CARs. That's the standard the work is completed to. So the Operator is STILL responsible for the STANDARD the work is completed to, NOT The AMO. UNLESS OF COURSE there is a legally signed contract specifing otherwise.

2 - As for the size of the operator, I don't agree. Lookit, there are operator's all over the place that have been set up by pilots and for pilots AND a shit load of them feel that an AME is not required. They feel a pilot's license is all they need. Basically the AME is being pushed intio the back ground because of these operators.

Just why do you think that TCCA changed the requirements and qualifications that a PRM need not be an AME?? Because they were lobbied and browbeaten by the Operators.

An operator needs an aircraft, a driver and an AME. PERIOD. IF he /she feels otherwise and assigns an AME job to a pilot, f* him/her. I won't support nor assist any driver trying to get information on assuming a job that SHOULD be assigned ONLY to licensed AME's. And I USUALLY don't offer free advise to driver's trying to have their aircraft repaired on the cheap by themselves. You buy a plane, you hire an ame to fix it, it's part of the ownership class! You can't afford it, don't buy a plane! You can afford to pay an AME to look after your aircraft serviceability, don't get into the business!

Ya think a feckin driver would tolerate an AME being responsible for Flight Ops?

Of course not! Driver's should be driving, period!

[Bullet Remington]

WG

Yeah, that ads for keystone. They've been looking for a while.

[brownbear]

Hey Bullet,
Yup same page.

My view- you're correct the AMO has to adhere to their MPM. The AOC needs the work carried out to be IAW with their MCM. But the that is more for the control of the work. Deferals etc.

The only place I disagree with is that it needs to be an AME. I see an exception if per say it is one plane or two and they are extremely low utilization. There should be the time for this person, be it a pilot or a guy off the street(possible?) to look over the mtc program.

But that person still needs some background in maintenance. Not just a driver.

But an AME is the best choice. Even if the company has no AMO or is not going to get one.

[Bullet Remington]

Browb bear; OKJ, next time you have the ocassion, have a boo through an operator's MCM and tell me what its says. It will say that aircraft will be maintained IAW with .....'that's the standard the maintenance must be performed to. period. take a trip into the regional TCCA office and have a discussion with them. They'll mirror the same sentiments.

NOW as for my stance re"AME as PRM here's a little back ground for ya. WESTJET up until about 1 year and a half - tw o years ago their VP of Maintyenace didn't even have an AME license, BUT he was confirmed by TCCA as PRM. AND Westjet has an AMO! they have since changed that. And this is one of the major carriers in canada.

Now step across the border and try that. Not gonna happen, in the Southland one MUST have an A & P license. When I worked for America West Airlines, EVERY director / magaer in maintenance including the executives had an A & P License. No feckin pilot's only shit! It's called job security, man.

The same priciple applies in 95 % of the othyer countries in the world. It pisses me off to no end that a pilot and / or owners think thay can do what an engineer does. And it really pisses me off when I find an engineer who condones this. Personally, I won't hire and will do everything possible to firee an engineer condoning this. Vindictive you may say? Nope, job protection, have a look at driver's they have. And they have it because they protect their job security - so much so that they've convinced TCCA that they can do our jobs! Now that's job protection.

So what are YOU doing to help the AME job security?? Not much by condoningthe right to have a driver do an AME's job. One of the major reasons I got out of the business was because of the spineles""go-ahead-f*-me-over"
attiutude of AME's. Soory Dude, but I see it haven't change much!!

Good Luck with your job security. If it works for you, that's all that matters then isn't it!

[624]

Here is a scenerio,
There is an amo on the field run by one ame. There's not an another ame around for 100 miles.There is an operator with one or two small aircraft. So what's the operator supposed to do? Hire a full time ame to be his prm?

[Cat Driver]

Why of course the operator must hire another person to be the PRM especially if the operator has something as complex as a Cessna 150 or God forbid a Cessna 172 on line as his / her only airplane.

I shudder to think how unsafe it would be to operate such equipment without a PRM on the pay roll.



By the way Bullet Rem... I just received another big shipment of parts from the U.S.A. for my Cub project and have been thinking how much easier it is to fly the things compared to building them.

[Bullet Remington]

Here is a scenerio,
There is an amo on the field run by one ame. There's not an another ame around for 100 miles.There is an operator with one or two small aircraft. So what's the operator supposed to do? Hire a full time ame to be his prm?

Wow, you're a driver aren't ya!!

Hire the one man AMO on the field as his PRM. If he won't do it hire a full time AME. IF he wants both his aircraft in the air, he has to hire another driver to fly it. If he wants the maintenance carried out IAW with the legal dictates, hire am AME. That's the way it was in the past and the way it still is in a number of countries that understand a pilot isn't the be all end all in aviation; rather he /she is just a part of it.

In the past, this was factored into the cost of operating machinery. It is still factored in, but now it's disposable income for the operator, primarily because he can suck a new driver into doing the job. Lookit, if he's an operator he has those aircraft to generate income. And in order to do that, he needs an AME. For now, BUT as we can clearly see, most AMEs have for years sat back and let driver's dictate how they're going to work, how its going to be and how much they're going to get paid (general statement there!) As a result AME are looked at as an expense and their responsibilities have been deferred to drivers. At this juncture it is considered by any to be perfectly acceptable. And I believe it's not, as do most other countries in the civilized world. And as I stated, this practise will continue until a major carrier augers a full cabin in. Then the operators will be doing the dance of the wind sucking assholes and the PRM drivers will be exiting like rat's abondoning a sinking ship while trying to get AME to take the jobs back and fix things.

We have already witnessed the results of this by several operators that have had severe "áccidents" on the West coast as well other areas in this country. In at least three of these incidents, the operator attempted to deflect the fault for the short comings on the contracted AMO, and in all cases on the PRM. In four instance that I know personally, four PRMs were browbeaten and faulted by the company. Four of thenm were run off, and one is backing working in the aviation business. The other three are employed in other areas. And as i stated previously, they got what they deserved.

CAT - You cantankerous old coot! I got your sarcasm. I'm dumb, I;m not stupid! Having said that, I have run into one man operations and we agree on one point. I too shudder on how unsafe a one plane / one man operation is! It usually NOT until they get into a two / three plane operation that they realize how far up shit creek they are, BUT it 98% of the cases, they're too feckin dumb to understand where they are. And TCCA being the recluse for aviation business feck ups, are too stupid to do anything except cover their own asses!

Fixing / building aircraft is easy. The ONLY hard part about flying aircraft is knowing when to say NO. AME's haven't learned that yet either!!

Again, I'm more concerned about job security. BUT most new pilots being pressured into taking a PRM job AND the engineers that willing pass along info to them, aren't smart enough to say no either

but everything will eventually work out the way the way is supposed to. Unfortunately like everything else, the weak and the stun will be culled!! LOL