Flight Security-threads merged
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
I also think that the TSA should issue the appropriate statement in this circumstance:
"As it has been clearly shown that we cannot possibly make every airplane 100% secure using reasonable security measures, we would like to remind all passengers that the final line of protection for every aircraft is a capable passenger. We would like to encourage all passengers to act in order to stop terrorists."
"All flights will continue under the previous security measures."
TSA
"As it has been clearly shown that we cannot possibly make every airplane 100% secure using reasonable security measures, we would like to remind all passengers that the final line of protection for every aircraft is a capable passenger. We would like to encourage all passengers to act in order to stop terrorists."
"All flights will continue under the previous security measures."
TSA
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
That guy had his explosive material sewn to his tighty whities. Unless CATSA has started to give out reach arounds I don't see how a pat down would have made a difference.
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
Eric Rudolph anyone? Domestic white Christians are terrorists as well. And how are you going to determine their religious beliefs? Ever heard of the IRA?Siddley Hawker wrote:Taken from PPRuNe:
A thorough profiling system based on nationality, countries previously visited and religious belief is the only way to prevent these atrocities.
Or is it just that the only terrorists we are interested in stopping are the Muslim ones. What about the rest? Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski, plus the plethora they had in Europe. How about Shoko Asahara?
Maybe it's time to stop letting the television do our thinking for us.
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
this is a another fear story to get you to tune in/read. you are far more likely to be killed driving you car then in a plane. you don't see people spending 8 hours to learn to drive better but there spending those hours in line.
oh well, back to your regulary schedualed programming... brain... off
oh well, back to your regulary schedualed programming... brain... off
- Panama Jack
- Rank 11
- Posts: 3255
- Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:10 am
- Location: Back here
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
For the answer to the subject line, one should read Super Freakonomics by Levitt & Dubner
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
-President Ronald Reagan
-President Ronald Reagan
-
- Rank 8
- Posts: 781
- Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:11 am
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
If only we had a government that was more canadian instead of following other countries coat tails we could do better
this government is sometimes like an american ( and others) mole operating in our parliament
we dont think for ourselves anymore
yemeni oil is valuable
yemen is valuable
so gotta make the connections
this government is sometimes like an american ( and others) mole operating in our parliament
we dont think for ourselves anymore
yemeni oil is valuable
yemen is valuable
so gotta make the connections
-
- Rank 6
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:57 pm
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
I'm going to suggest since the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was passed.Dash-Ate, since when flying is a right?
MOBILITY RIGHTS OF CITIZENS / Right to move and gain livelihood / Limitation / Affirmative action programs.
6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.
(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right
(a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
(b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
You are 100% right my friend, and for those of you who are mocking this person, I have one word for you: BRAINWASHING. But that's exactly how they get away with this s**t! More people are more like zombies today and are running around in fear to what ever their government serves them. Wake up people!Dash-Ate wrote:When will you realise...the terrorists are our own leaders....only THEY can take away our rights.
How much more of this will it take for you to realise? I wonder.
Most of what we hear on the news is BS. All these fear stories.
Our industry is in for a very tough time...our own leaders are destroying it
Jaques Strappe, you are right on the spot!! I would like to ask CATSA and TSA this same question!! Why is it more safe to fly within U.S. then from outside to U.S.??? And I'm sorry, but this air travel is becoming more like cattle transport. Even these animals are treated better then we are! And someone should be responsible and paying airlines for all the disruption and delays that are costing them in hundreds of millions of dollars because their gov't organization screening agencies have FAILED to protect the air traveling public. I have many more words that I would like to say here, but because we have kids here to, I will keep them for my selfThe Old Fogducker wrote:While I feel your pain due to inconvenience, in all sincerity, what do you think should be done?
You are kidding right? This grand illusion is an insult to everyones intelligence. Flights destined to the U.S from Canadian airports are leaving up to 12 hours late if they haven't been cancelled due to all this redundant secondary patting down nonsense in the name of suspected threats, yet all flights leaving Buffalo, Seattle, or any other American airport are not subject to any of this. How is that secure? Do they need to be reminded that the flights of Sept 11, 2001 all departed from U.S. airports? Do they really think a terrorist won't just jump on a bus to Buffalo with all the other passengers who chartered one?
The millions upon millions of dollars being wasted on this makes the whole thing eliligible for entry into the Guiness book of records as the grandest illusion in history.
Sorry, but until we start profiling and taking things seriously like they do at Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv, this will remain nothing more than a sharade veiled and fuelled by fear.
This latest attack is simply proof of the illusion. Authorities were even warned prior to this clown getting on an airplane.
- Jaques Strappe
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:34 pm
- Location: YYZ
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
Racial profiling will not fly in the Western world, however, when I said "profiling" in a previous post, I did not mean just racial. I meant knowing who is traveling. Why is someone buying a ticket with cash and has no luggage?
This individual was known to authorities and was on an FBI "no fly" list yet still got on an airplane. The terrorists of 911 were all known to the authorities, who were even warned of the attempt, yet they still got on airplanes.
This notion of CATSA and TSA guards being our first line of defense is what I find so insulting. They should be the last. As for Finn 47 saying this must have been a well planned and not a knee jerk reaction, I would disagree. This is a total kneejerk reaction created by the very individuals who realized too late, that they allowed a terrorist to board an airplane.
This individual was known to authorities and was on an FBI "no fly" list yet still got on an airplane. The terrorists of 911 were all known to the authorities, who were even warned of the attempt, yet they still got on airplanes.
This notion of CATSA and TSA guards being our first line of defense is what I find so insulting. They should be the last. As for Finn 47 saying this must have been a well planned and not a knee jerk reaction, I would disagree. This is a total kneejerk reaction created by the very individuals who realized too late, that they allowed a terrorist to board an airplane.
Standby for new atis message
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
Does it specify by air? Article 6 only specifies that a border station, if you are canadian, you cannot be refused entry. Nothing about flying into your country.Conquest Driver wrote:I'm going to suggest since the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was passed.Dash-Ate, since when flying is a right?
MOBILITY RIGHTS OF CITIZENS / Right to move and gain livelihood / Limitation / Affirmative action programs.
6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.
(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right
(a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
(b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.
Article 8 talks only about "unreasonable search or seizure".
There is nothing in what you posted that talk about the "right" to fly. It's a privilege that you can get revoked. Sometimes it is unfortunate, but when 1 group screws up, everybody gets the shaft, so to speak.
Going for the deck at corner
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
The thing that really bugs me about all this is the current (laughable) security system that is in place didn't even fail!
The guy got on in Nigeria - where you can probably walk on the plane from the street - then changed planes in Amsterdam. There is no US pre-clearance there and - just like most major airports - when xfering to another flight - you walk through a secure corridor to your next flight. You don't go through security again.
Maybe they need to re-think this when dealing with flights that originate in shady countries, or ones with poor (re very little) security at check in.
The guy got on in Nigeria - where you can probably walk on the plane from the street - then changed planes in Amsterdam. There is no US pre-clearance there and - just like most major airports - when xfering to another flight - you walk through a secure corridor to your next flight. You don't go through security again.
Maybe they need to re-think this when dealing with flights that originate in shady countries, or ones with poor (re very little) security at check in.
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
If terrorists are trying to get everyone to stop flying, does this make terrorists environmentalists?
I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
boeingboy wrote:The thing that really bugs me about all this is the current (laughable) security system that is in place didn't even fail!
The guy got on in Nigeria - where you can probably walk on the plane from the street - then changed planes in Amsterdam. There is no US pre-clearance there and - just like most major airports - when xfering to another flight - you walk through a secure corridor to your next flight. You don't go through security again.
Maybe they need to re-think this when dealing with flights that originate in shady countries, or ones with poor (re very little) security at check in.
Actually, when I travelled from Thailand to Canada a few weeks ago, I stopped in Narita on the way. We had to go through security immediately after deplaning and then you could get in the International terminal. I assume it's the same way anywhere else for flights to North America.
Going for the deck at corner
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
Several articles have said the Nigerian went through a security check in Amsterdam, but it may not have been confirmed yet
http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/dutch-r ... 10614.htmlThe failed bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, went through security checks at Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport when he transferred onto the Northwest Airlines flight. Dutch Anti-Terrorism Co-ordinator Erik Akerboom has admitted the airport’s security checks are not completely watertight. It is not clear whether all transfer passengers are currently checked by sniffer dogs.
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
Actually at Schipol Airport in Amsterdam most, if not all, gates have security screening at the entrance to the gate itself (which is more like a secure room that they open an hour prior to boarding or something like that) so it is highly likely that he went through screening again there.boeingboy wrote:
The guy got on in Nigeria - where you can probably walk on the plane from the street - then changed planes in Amsterdam. There is no US pre-clearance there and - just like most major airports - when xfering to another flight - you walk through a secure corridor to your next flight. You don't go through security again.
Maybe they need to re-think this when dealing with flights that originate in shady countries, or ones with poor (re very little) security at check in.
I've also been through security at a couple airports in Nigeria as recent as 2006, and it was pretty much a joke.
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
You are searched twice in Schipol airport. Once when entering the main terminal and again immediately before you board your aircraft. Anyone coming from another flight will be searched at the gate before boarding. Most major international airports search twice. Japan, Qatar, UAE, UK, Thailand, Malaysia, and most places in Africa, I've been searched twice. The quality of those searches could be debatable but they were done twice. In some cases within 20 feet of each other. Also, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was only on a intelligence watch list, not an actual no-fly list.
-
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1684
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:36 am
- Location: CYPA
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
Thats correct. According to CTV news there are 500,000 people on the "watch list" as opposed to the only 4000 on the "no fly" list.Youngback wrote:You are searched twice in Schipol airport. Once when entering the main terminal and again immediately before you board your aircraft. Anyone coming from another flight will be searched at the gate before boarding. Most major international airports search twice. Japan, Qatar, UAE, UK, Thailand, Malaysia, and most places in Africa, I've been searched twice. The quality of those searches could be debatable but they were done twice. In some cases within 20 feet of each other. Also, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was only on a intelligence watch list, not an actual no-fly list.
Also, CTV reported that the powder substance weighed approx 80 grams..just over 2.5 ozs. It would have been impossible to detect without a cavity search. There has got to be a technology that will support finding hidden explosive material on a person.. while still not infringing on their dignity & right to privacy.
I am grateful to not have to travel by commercial aviation anytime soon. These knee-jerk reactions (and they ARE knee-jerk reactions and not thought out whatsoever) are a joke. The skys are no safer today then they were 2 weeks ago. These searches are just another indignity that the travelling public has to endure.
Fly safe all.
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
I agree they are a pain in the ass, however if one of your family was on an aircraft that was blown up in flight because someone else thought security was a pain in the ass how loud would you be screaming then.
..................................I thought so. I realize it's not perfect but it is hard to argue with the success thats happening. Whether the other side is trying real hard is anybodies guess.
..................................I thought so. I realize it's not perfect but it is hard to argue with the success thats happening. Whether the other side is trying real hard is anybodies guess.
- Jaques Strappe
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:34 pm
- Location: YYZ
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
MUSKEG wrote:I agree they are a pain in the ass, however if one of your family was on an aircraft that was blown up in flight because someone else thought security was a pain in the ass how loud would you be screaming then.
..................................I thought so. I realize it's not perfect but it is hard to argue with the success thats happening. Whether the other side is trying real hard is anybodies guess.
I think about this all the time and what upsets me is that our government seems to rely on passenger screening when in reality, a suicide bomber could have explosives hidden in their stomachs on a timer. How is a CATSA or TSA person going to detect that?
What should be the most alarming detail to the flying public right now is that these attackers were all known to various governments as hostile terrorists and yet were still allowed to fly on board commercial airliners?
The problem is not at the airports. Yet it would seem that is exactly what they want you to believe.
Standby for new atis message
-
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2565
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:07 pm
- Location: Negative sequencial vortex
Re: The Terrorist Have Won!
Handcuffing people to their seats? Not a bad idea.
When I flew a lot of passengers, I used to think it would be ideal from my point of view to chloroform the passengers and stack them under a cargo net for the duration of the flight.
The last time I flew on Jazz, i wished someone would chloroform me and put me under a cargo net for the duration of the flight.
When I flew a lot of passengers, I used to think it would be ideal from my point of view to chloroform the passengers and stack them under a cargo net for the duration of the flight.
The last time I flew on Jazz, i wished someone would chloroform me and put me under a cargo net for the duration of the flight.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself