Flight Security-threads merged

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ZBBYLW
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The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by ZBBYLW »

This is a bloody joke. Why not require that every one to be hand cuffed to their seats, everyone completely naked so we can see exactly what everyone is "packing".

I heard rules about people having to be in their seats 1 hour before landing without a crew escort to the washroom, not being able to access their own carry on. When do we stop?

This is from AC's website:

Air Canada provides the following update for flights from Canada to the United States.

In response to new government policies and in order to reduce delays caused by the enhanced security measures for flights operating into the United States, effective Sunday, December 27, and until further notice, carry-on baggage will be restricted to one personal item (purse, computer bag, diaper bag, brief case or small backpack). All other items (including larger roller bags, large backpacks, etc) must be checked-in.

"We regret the inconvenience these circumstances have caused our customers," said Duncan Dee, Air Canada's Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer. "Our staff are working non-stop to assist customers and ensure that our flights operate as close to schedule as possible. This temporary carry-on policy will assist security officers in screening customers more quickly and thereby minimize delays for passengers to the extent possible."

In order to facilitate these new security measures, Air Canada is waiving excess baggage charges for checked baggage on a temporary basis for U.S.-bound customers travelling from Canada.Air Canada recommends passengers travelling to the U.S. from Canada arrive early at the airport for their flight in order to allow adequate time for additional personal searches.

Under new rules enacted by Transport Canada and the U.S. Transportation Security Administration, passengers travelling from Canada to the United States and their carry-on baggage will be strictly limited and subject to full searches at airport screening points.


From WestJet:

As a result of the increased security measures now in place for all flights to the United States including the limit of one carry-on bag per guest, WestJet will be waiving excess baggage fees for all flights to the United States.

As announced on December 25, the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority (CATSA) will be conducting a secondary search at the departure gate. Each guest on flights to the United States will be required to submit to a physical pat-down search and carry-on luggage, which will be limited to one bag per guest, will be searched by hand.

These new procedures are scheduled to be in effect until at least December 30, 2009. WestJet will update guests as new information becomes available.
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C-FABH
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by C-FABH »

Don't get too worked up over it. The Transport Canada press release states "These measures are expected to be in place at least for several days"

Holding my breath,

'ABH.
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The Old Fogducker
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by The Old Fogducker »

While I feel your pain due to inconvenience, in all sincerity, what do you think should be done?

Just carry on with business as usual and say to the passengers and crews ...."move along folks, nothing to see here?"

Are these terrorist attacks so few and far enough between we should just ignore them and they will eventually tire of the activity and move along to some other endeavor? ....And if a few airplanes go down, so what ... the majority of them got through to their destination that day, and special deals could be worked out if a friend or relative got blown up in mid-flight ... maybe ID 90 privileges for a year or something..

We could run the air transportation system in much the same way as "Bomber Harris' Thousand Plane Raid" concept maybe. They can't have enough brainless idiots willing to blow themselves up, so we will overwhelm their capabilities.

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Dash-Ate
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Dash-Ate »

When will you realise...the terrorists are our own leaders....only THEY can take away our rights.
How much more of this will it take for you to realise? I wonder.

Most of what we hear on the news is BS. All these fear stories.
Our industry is in for a very tough time...our own leaders are destroying it
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The Old Fogducker
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by The Old Fogducker »

Dash-Ate, I've spent decades in and around the radio & TV business, don't try and tell me how it works, but I'm certainly in a position to tell you your info is ... plain and simply ... screwed up.

OFD
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ahramin
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by ahramin »

Fogducker, as you can see from the latest incident, it's not the McDonalds rejects going through your underwear at the airport that stop the terrorists, it's the passengers and cabin crew in the airplane. If it makes sense to have the expense and inconvenience of this pretend security show on the off chance it prevents 1 or 2 terrorist hijackings a year, then it doubly makes sense to register and subsequently confiscate every single gun in the country in order to prevent the hundreds of murders a year.

If some airline could get permission to forgo security, that airline would be my first choice each and every time. People happily travel on trains and buses without showing up 3 hours early for a pat down, I suspect many would do the same with airplanes.
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Invertago
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Invertago »

Could be good times for business charter flights after this. Maybe GM etc will reinstate their flight department.
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The Old Fogducker
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by The Old Fogducker »

No GM flight dept expansion I'm afraid.... Not as long as the left-wing loonies are in office in the US. Corporate aviation has been vilified by the Greens and the likes of Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and The Wonder Dog himself, "Barking Barrack" Hussein Obama.

OFD
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AuxBatOn
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by AuxBatOn »

Dash-Ate, since when flying is a right?
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AEROBAT
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by AEROBAT »

Dash-Ate wrote:When will you realise...the terrorists are our own leaders....only THEY can take away our rights.
How much more of this will it take for you to realise? I wonder.

Most of what we hear on the news is BS. All these fear stories.
Our industry is in for a very tough time...our own leaders are destroying it
The trouble is they have created an industry that is based in fear. The average taxpayer in Canada willingly gives up freedom for a bogus feeling of security no matter how much it costs. Look at the gong show we will pay for during the Olympics. Look at what they have done to air travel.
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2.5milefinal
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by 2.5milefinal »

The Old Fogducker wrote:While I feel your pain due to inconvenience, in all sincerity, what do you think should be done?

Just carry on with business as usual and say to the passengers and crews ...."move along folks, nothing to see here?"
IMHO Just carry on with business as usual would be a good start. Do the screening properly in the first place would be another. Secondary searches and pat-downs ... smoke and mirrors.
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Siddley Hawker »

Taken from PPRuNe:

A thorough profiling system based on nationality, countries previously visited and religious belief is the only way to prevent these atrocities.
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by sheephunter »

Why do people need carry-on anyway? Check it all in. Actually sell me a cheap ticket that no one has any luggage, no meals and a bit of leg room and I'm there. I can sit in a cub or a cessna until all the fuel is gone without all these needs. I can drive my truck for six hours without having to stop for a piss. Use the saved space for revenue generating cargo. I'll buy a new tooth brush when I land. What's with these people that get on the plane with two full sized suitcases. Why do these people think they are so important? Where are the ticket counter people??? Why are they allowed to continually do this? Man, does this hit a nerve. You know, it doesn't seem that long ago you could fly with your hunting rifle in the seat beside you. I don't remember hearing of any terrorists back then. Oh and then trying to figure out what to do with this guy that has a bomb on the plane... I'll tell you.
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godsrcrazy
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by godsrcrazy »

dam rights they have won. Again everyone is chasing their tail we knee jerk reactions. Wouldn't suprise me if home land security didn't set this up so there budget doesn't get cut. What BS. Just like secured cockpit doors, 100 ml or less liquid etc. Like a brief case with a lap top in it couldn't knock some one out.

Face it terrorists have WON. More money poured into chasing ghosts. At least Business travel will bloom as everyone is sick of some $10.00 pet hour person searching them.

Air travel is going to sh-- and the US government is leading the charge
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Jaques Strappe
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Jaques Strappe »

The Old Fogducker wrote:While I feel your pain due to inconvenience, in all sincerity, what do you think should be done?

Just carry on with business as usual and say to the passengers and crews ...."move along folks, nothing to see here?"

Are these terrorist attacks so few and far enough between we should just ignore them and they will eventually tire of the activity and move along to some other endeavor? ....And if a few airplanes go down, so what ... the majority of them got through to their destination that day, and special deals could be worked out if a friend or relative got blown up in mid-flight ... maybe ID 90 privileges for a year or something..

We could run the air transportation system in much the same way as "Bomber Harris' Thousand Plane Raid" concept maybe. They can't have enough brainless idiots willing to blow themselves up, so we will overwhelm their capabilities.

The Old Fogducker

You are kidding right? This grand illusion is an insult to everyones intelligence. Flights destined to the U.S from Canadian airports are leaving up to 12 hours late if they haven't been cancelled due to all this redundant secondary patting down nonsense in the name of suspected threats, yet all flights leaving Buffalo, Seattle, or any other American airport are not subject to any of this. How is that secure? Do they need to be reminded that the flights of Sept 11, 2001 all departed from U.S. airports? Do they really think a terrorist won't just jump on a bus to Buffalo with all the other passengers who chartered one?

The millions upon millions of dollars being wasted on this makes the whole thing eliligible for entry into the Guiness book of records as the grandest illusion in history.

Sorry, but until we start profiling and taking things seriously like they do at Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv, this will remain nothing more than a sharade veiled and fuelled by fear.

This latest attack is simply proof of the illusion. Authorities were even warned prior to this clown getting on an airplane.
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flyincanuck
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by flyincanuck »

Siddley Hawker wrote:Taken from PPRuNe:

A thorough profiling system based on nationality, countries previously visited and religious belief is the only way to prevent these atrocities.
Yup.

+ you know...prohibiting explosive materials.

Just sayin...
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Finn47 »

Folks, the United States were in fact lightning quick to publish these new security regulations just hours after this incident - which means their reaction must have been planned well in advance. The incident was reported in Finland at 7 pm local time. By 9 am the next morning, the Finnish Broadcasting Corporation had published the entire list of new regulations and it was quoted on the Finnish aviation forum that I read by 9:40 am. No way was this a kneejerk reaction by the U.S. They must have had a list of measures ready at hand - approved by a higher authority, mind you - so a panic reaction it was NOT.
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flyincanuck
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by flyincanuck »

...right. I'm leaning towards the idea that this was all concocted over a few cups of egg nog.
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Tiny Tyke »

+ 1 for the comments of Siddley Hawker and Jaques Strappe!!!

It's funny how we all talk and laugh about it in the cockpit, but it is the only thing that will truly help.
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Siddley Hawker »

I agree 100% with profiling, but does anyone really think that'll come about? Can you imagine the shitstorm the civil rights lawyers will create? It's easier to carry on with the totally useless bullshit currently in force and cavity search your 70-year old granny in her wheelchair, than it will be to find a politician with the balls to impliment racial, national and religious profiling.
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Tiny Tyke
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Tiny Tyke »

I also think that the TSA should issue the appropriate statement in this circumstance:

"As it has been clearly shown that we cannot possibly make every airplane 100% secure using reasonable security measures, we would like to remind all passengers that the final line of protection for every aircraft is a capable passenger. We would like to encourage all passengers to act in order to stop terrorists."

"All flights will continue under the previous security measures."

TSA
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Go Guns
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Go Guns »

That guy had his explosive material sewn to his tighty whities. Unless CATSA has started to give out reach arounds I don't see how a pat down would have made a difference.
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ahramin
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by ahramin »

Siddley Hawker wrote:Taken from PPRuNe:

A thorough profiling system based on nationality, countries previously visited and religious belief is the only way to prevent these atrocities.
Eric Rudolph anyone? Domestic white Christians are terrorists as well. And how are you going to determine their religious beliefs? Ever heard of the IRA?

Or is it just that the only terrorists we are interested in stopping are the Muslim ones. What about the rest? Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski, plus the plethora they had in Europe. How about Shoko Asahara?

Maybe it's time to stop letting the television do our thinking for us.
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Adam1100
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Adam1100 »

this is a another fear story to get you to tune in/read. you are far more likely to be killed driving you car then in a plane. you don't see people spending 8 hours to learn to drive better but there spending those hours in line.

oh well, back to your regulary schedualed programming... brain... off
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Panama Jack »

For the answer to the subject line, one should read Super Freakonomics by Levitt & Dubner
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