AVCANADA

What we really need is a dedicated full time engineer who would like to grow with our team.

Job Description:
We are currently looking for an experienced AME (no apprentices please) to join are team. Air Tractor experience would be an asset as well as sheet metal experience. We are located on Lake Superior in Thunder Bay and operate the aircraft from northen locations. We specialize in hauling fuel with our modified AT-802s to remote communities and some travel may be required. You must be able to work well with others as well as independantly.

Hey folks. I'm the chief pilot of Wilderness North Air. We operate a C185, a DHC2, 3 DHC3T and soon to be other equipment and a fleet of Air Tractor 802 aircraft including both the Fuel Boss and Fire Boss. If a put out a job opening on AvCanada for a pilot I will get dozens of qualified responces due to the downturn in the economy. However, if I place a job opening for an AME on AvCanada, there is no responce at all!

Is there that few AME's out there looking for work? Or is is that few engineers follow AvCanada?

Thanks

wrench safely!

The pay is the shits.

I saw the guys on Ice Pilots turning wrenches on an old radial engine (C46) in - 40 weather with little or no lights in the dark, no hanger or shelter, and the winds were blowing 10-15kts. At the end of the show the engineer stated he did it ‘because of his love for aviation.’ Really? Wow! That’s dedication!

Im thinking more along the lines, " I'm comfortable, I'm scared of change and to save face I will continually put up with this shit till I finally get enough courage and money to move on" But non the less I am impressed the conditions those guys tolerate. They have thicker skin then me.

So what do you consider adequate pay? Peter?

And was the salary the only thing that drove you to something else?

Just imagine a world where there no airplanes for the flyers to break because they are all broken and there is no one to fix them.

I must apologize for my ‘tin basher’ slang; when what I meant to say was B licensed (now Structures licensed) engineer.

Personally, I don't take offense from anybody calling me a tin basher, metal masher or whatever. If I did I wouldn't be calling drivers drivers!!LOl Can't speak for other though!

Thanks for your comments and I couldn’t agree with you guy’s more. I’ve always noticed an injustice in this industry. Why I mechanic at Cdn Tire can make more than an engineer fixing airplanes has always bothered me.

So, the question is, if you still have these concerns, do you as a manager/ director within the company, take these concerns to the boss man / Boss lady? Or do you do as most in this business, shrugg your shoulders, express your dismay and write it off as the "norm"and go on your merry way???

As a pilot, in the late 1970’s I left a $70,000 a year non-flying job on the west coast to fly a C-180 on floats in Manitoba for $600 a month. A $100 a month bonus was paid if the floats weren’t dented. There was an outhouse at their float base and the pilots had to buy their own toilet paper; if you can believe that! (The company exists to this day and perhaps that’s why

I PROBABLY know that company, and if i recall the out house is still there, despite there being building with functioning washromms not 20 feeet away! I just might have done a cylinder change for them on the dock. AND, I never got paid for that either!!!

I saw the guys on Ice Pilots turning wrenches on an old radial engine (C46) in - 40 weather with little or no lights in the dark, no hanger or shelter, and the winds were blowing 10-15kts. At the end of the show the engineer stated he did it ‘because of his love for aviation.’ Really? Wow! That’s dedication!

Well, let's see. the DOM is the Bosses son, the General manager is the Bosses son, and the Boss is a feckin tryrant!! What else ya gonna say?? Ya hate the job? The family is a moody nut case family that ya don't want to work for BUT they don't pay enough for you to pack up and send ya family and stuff back down South?? Not a chance, I know a couple of the guys working there! And despite what some of them say on the TV, a couple of them are just chafing at the shorts to get outa there!!


I think the reason most companies don’t list their rate of pay is because it is only the largest of airlines that can make a ‘salary fit all’ pay scale that works, whereas most of the aviation industry in Canada is based on smaller operators who cannot afford a ‘’one salary fit all’ pay scale that also works.

We pay our apprentices a wage of $30,000 + and licensed engineers start at anywhere from $40 - $60 thousand a year depending on experience. For a highly experienced and qualified engineer, it is all negotiable and I’m sure we pay the industry standard (or higher) for qualified individuals who can be part of the team.

So, based upon 2000 hours a year you pay the apprentices $15.00 an hour?? Where do they go from there or is that the peak of the incremental pay raises? or is there no pay raises? And, you pay your licensed engineers $20 to $30 bucks an hour?? And you pay INDUSTRY STANDARDS or higher for highly experienced AMEs?? So, you want to tell us what you consider is industry standards? Oh, lets say for a crusty Old bastard with 30 years in the business, m1, M2, S, helicopter, big iron endorsements, and was one of the guys who used to kick Billy Bishops ass when he left the Master on?? So how much you go start him at??

As to what ‘team’ means is having a common vision of growth and direction on multiple fronts and enjoying the rewards of success. As to the benefits, if you like the outdoors and hunting and/or fishing there are many fringe benefits. We operate in the heartland of the Boreal Forests with sixteen outpost camps and seven lodges. We are the largest (I believe) fly-in tourist outfitter in Canada. The Air Tractors and other developments are at the cutting edge of aviation technologies that could place our expertise around the world.


Wow!! I am impressed, And I mean that sincerely!! Your definition of team work is worthy of a political party nomination for a candidate anywhere!! You spent a complete paragraph spouting shit!! lookit, This is what gets Engineers pissed off. people try and candy coat the facts. look at your ad, it states that there is going to be wonky monkey motion crap going on IE trips to Fishing camps, and up on some butt f**k lake and it is expected that the engineer be ready willing and able to pack up and move at a moments notice!! YEt, you're going to pay his Industry standard or better! WEhat the feck is industry standard?? Ya wan t tp kow what theat means to an engineer? here's how it transplats" team [player = Work for as little as we can get away with paying you 9 also refer to industry standard!) AND expect to conform to what we tell you , when we tell. Your salary includes the right to work as much as we want you to, when we want you too!!AND, if you comform and obey, we MIGHt let you take a few minutes to fish AFTER you get the machine repaired....but don't count on it!! Oh and using Air tractors and Ag cats to transport fuel and other junk is not a new endeavour! Its been done for eons!!

As to the comments “you get what you pay for,” we did not hire the young apprentice (although we took the time to interview him for future possibilities), specifically because at this time we are looking for an experienced engineer to join our team.

Lookit, i'm not trying to warp your view of your company, But you should understand, an ame in 5 years in theis business has been lied to and screwed over so many times that a truck coild be driven up his ass and he wouldn't notice it! Hence, AME don't give a shit abot "corporate culture"the dreams and ambitions of the owners nor the chief driver! What we care about is being able to feed and provide for our families without have to work our asses off and being short money at the end of the first week after pay day. We want operators and pilots to understand that when we say we aren't signing it out, it because we would rather see a drivers ugly mug around the hangar and give him shit, then to have to go out and put what remains we can find in a body bag. if we tellyou it needs to be fixed now, it doesn't mean next week, after this next flight OR whenever the Boss feels like getting the parts!! you want to see just how important this TEAM shit is, go in and talk to the engineers on the b line at Worst jet or out on the line at midnight when the temp is -25 and the windchill drives the temp down to -40. Tell me how many buy the team crap!! Oh and just to clarify, the MAJOR airlines don'thave a one salary fits all either. The Engineers in maintenance planning , and in Charts and Graphs, Airworthiness, Quality Assurance, Quailty Control, on the B check line and on the flight line DON't all get paid the same! hell, it ain't even industry standard!! then again, after 30 years in this racket, i still have NO feckin idea what operators consider industry standards!! if you do, feel free to let me know!

Best of the New Year; and thanks for helping to keep aviation safe.

As to my aviation business concerns; the reality is that industry can only pay what the industry can bear. There is always an operator out there that will undercut rates just to survive, so unless there was a common union of operators to stop this practice, the industry is forced to live within its means under competitive markets. That being said, I have always tried to improve working conditions for all employees, despite the markets.
So I don’t just shrug it off as the "norm" but once I have done what I can do to improve the situation I probably do “go my merry way" after I do my best. Sooner or later a person must take the high road in life and look toward the positive things, otherwise, life is just way too depressing.

“So, you want to tell us what you consider is industry standards?”

For a top of the line engineer I would say $80 - $90 K. If he/she was exceptional and could help move the company forward to new levels, I’m guessing $120 K + (but I am speaking out of turn).

Great thread!