College of Pilots?

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mattedfred
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by mattedfred »

jeta1 wrote:As long as TC remains in charge of pilot licensing, the College wont fly. And if and when the college does fly, I can only see the creation of different claases of pilots - namely - those with a degree and those without. Pilots do not need to go to college, and that's a fact. Given that fact, I can only see the College as a big mess on the horizon. I hope TC retains pilot licensing.

i believe the only reason that the college was created was because TC is planning to get out of licensing. i think a few proactive pilot groups decided to get ahead of the issue so it wasn't passed off onto the employer.
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ScudRunner
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by ScudRunner »

I posted this in a thread in the flight training forum.....
Too improve the industry and attract the best a brightest you need to make it far more difficult to get a commercial pilots licence. Currently you just need money and about a year to get your licence, other professions that people like to compare being a pilot to such as doctor and lawyer which makes me laugh have far tougher entrance requirements just to try and start on the road to that profession .

I started a thread about such things awhile back in the employment forum.

Lawyer - 4 year degree plus the LSAT just to start.
Doctor - MCAT and a Science based degree to start.
Pilot - Money, 1 year and basic motor and reasoning skills.

So what should happen is to get into a CPL program or start your Commercial training we need a MCAT or LSAT type entrance exam. Three exam sittings a year you fail well tough cookie you can try again in four months , make it 200 questions long give them 3 hours and a pass of 90%.

What this will do is weed out the slackers and making it more difficult to become a pilot, thus creating fewer pilots for the market and driving wages up.


And first of all do you really think any school will let you dangle a poster up in their school saying that, thats just not good for business.
this is just a simple overview and I am sure that the puppy mills of aviation colleges would oppose this. A further step would be an immediate stop to subsidized pilot colleges. Limiting the mass hoard of barely literate town folk from polluting the pilot gene pool is the only way to make this happen.
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jeta1
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by jeta1 »

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Hot Fuel
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Hot Fuel »

Hmmm, an informal poll here on AvCanada showed overwhelming support for this. Seems like people really do just like to bitch about something-anything.
I didn't take the time to find the poll you referenced but if memory serves me there was something like 150 votes in total, even if they all voted for this initiative one could hardly call those results overwhelming.

What percentage would 150 be relative to the number of licensed commercial pilots working or potentially affected by this group of elitists?
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ajet32
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by ajet32 »

"150" Votes
Well between; ACPA, ALPA, WJPA, SWPA, and others there are over 6000 thousand professional pilots. This group already have representative organizations that deal with contracts, working conditions, safety and standards and have representatives sitting on formal committees dealing with duty hours and SMS .

At the risk of thread hijacking just what is this proposed college supposed to do, and how will it benefit a professional who already is a member of any of the above mentioned groups.
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jeta1
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by jeta1 »

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Widow
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Widow »

Do you know who is on the Board of Directors for the CPPC? I do know a few of them, and I'd call them neither elitist, self-interested, nor would I attribute to them a WalMart mentality.
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Hot Fuel »

I’ll concede and retract my elitist comment it was perhaps premature and a bit over the top. However at this stage of the game I can’t envision how or what this group plans to accomplish. I’ll go back to widow quote…
With that, I must give warning - not all employers are, or will be, happy about this.


I’m having a difficult time foreseeing what a collective of self-appointed pilots can possibly do to improve the industry, particularly if it’s potentially going to create a scenario that employers will not like. What will they have in their toolbox other than a bunch of resolutions they choose to draft up, vote on and potentially pass? Under what authority will these resolutions be binding on any employer?

I suspect if the employers find the college is attempting to force an unpopular or unacceptable agenda it won’t take but a few phone calls between carriers and anybody with an affiliation with the college will find their resume in the bin.

Who’s going to sign up and pay dues to an institution that gets ignored and perhaps blackballed by the people that actually due the hiring?
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mcrit
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by mcrit »

ajet32 wrote:I too fear a "Contrail" type situation where there will be a few limited jobs for the low timer....
Sorry, not familiar with the Contrail reference, someone fill me in.

As for the College thing, a good deal depends on how it is implemented. I remember the Ontario College of Teacher's coming into being. It was dumped on us by the NDP government of the day and all it did was provide a platform for people who had never done my job, (or at best done it poorly) to tell me how to do my job. Needless to say I wasn't impressed.

Now, if TC is really going to get out of licensing, then it might be a good idea to steal the march and have our organization in place to take it over as opposed to ATAC or some other such group.
jeta1 wrote:Easy, the college is meant to replace all these groups. Once you know who are the leaders of that group, you'll start to understant they have a Walmart mentality.
Not sure what you mean by a Walmart mentality. Do you mean the people setting up the college think like the managment of Walmart or the employees?
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by jeta1 »

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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Cat Driver »

Does anyone know who the individuals who are working on the foundations of this new group are?

How have they been chosen for their various positions in the new group?
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by av8tor_assrope »

Any organization that will prevent guys from undercutting each other, buying types or flying Navajo’s, 421's, instructing etc for $15000/year has my full support.
Cat, I happen to know a few of the guys working on forming the college right now. They weren’t exactly chosen for their positions. Just regular guys that were some of the first to get the ball rolling
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Doc »

Cat Driver wrote:Does anyone know who the individuals who are working on the foundations of this new group are?

How have they been chosen for their various positions in the new group?
From what I understand, they have been "self appointed". Hence, my "contrail" remark. A perfect example of the "tail wagging the dog". I'm happy I'll be out of the business long before this "gleam in someone's eye" has any say, or sway over my future.
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Widow
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Widow »

I know who most of those on the Board of Directors are, and have met a few of them in person. While I have no idea how the Board has been chosen officially, from what I have seen it has as much to do with having the ability, time and willingness to be involved - and leave affiliations at the door - as anything else. Some of those on the Board are so far from being "the elite" it makes some of the comments here quite humourous.

As for employers who wouldn't appreciate an employees early involvement, these are likely the same employers who don't appreciate motions toward unions or associations of any kind. Everyone has their own opinion of these types of employers.
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Doc »

Widow wrote:I know who most of those on the Board of Directors are, and have met a few of them in person. While I have no idea how the Board has been chosen officially, from what I have seen it has as much to do with having the ability, time and willingness to be involved - and leave affiliations at the door - as anything else. Some of those on the Board are so far from being "the elite" it makes some of the comments here quite humourous.
So far Widow, would you describe them as a "think tank"? Obviously at this time, the rest of us are totally in the dark as to their methods and intentions. Nobody I know has been informed in any way, how to become involved. I'm worried it may be a group of disgruntled x-employees, or worse yet, a certain group of "whistle blowers"....I hope I'm wrong though.
While this industry dearly needs a "helping hand" from somewhere, I can't see a self appointed group, rising from the ashes being really accepted by the masses.
Kind of like..."Here we are....you will now do this...."
Not going to work.

This will hurt some feelings, but I believe it's true. Aviation is a "kiss ass" industry. It'll always be a "kiss ass" industry. As long as we have pilots willing to "buy" jobs, companies forcing pilots into signing long term training bonds, it's going to be "kiss ass".
Companies are just going to tell the "college" to piss off. You'll have to change the pilots before the companies, because the companies are in the driver's seat....and they know it. As long as there's ONE pilot out there, willing to write a cheque for a job, the college idea is dead in the water.
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Cat Driver »

To be successful and efficient these organizations require money, if none of the everyday worker bees in industry have any idea of who these people are or how these people plan on accomplishing something that has never been attempted before at the 703 / 705 level of aviation when are they going to go public and start generating money to get the job done?
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Widow »

I would describe their current status as still being in "think tank" mode, yes. That said, they are doing everything in a most orderly fashion and according to the rules.

As I linked earlier, they have had Industry Canada approval since summer. Some of the more relevant information as to what will be required to work under the TC Safety Partnership Program was quoted on this link: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=56474&p=533879.

Most of the larger unions and associations are already on board, and information is being disseminated within those existing organizations. So the numbers, and the money, are already there.

Everyone on the Board remembers where they came from and how they got to where they are today - good or bad. Their goal was, and is, to have all sectors of the pilot workforce represented on the Board while still in "think tank" mode. So far, from my understanding, everyone has been working together very effectively, with little or no disagreement on key issues.

I know they had hoped to have the website open to the public by this past fall. While this has not happened, it is not a result of any problems, but a result of bureaucracy and attempting to ensure their objectives are perfected beforehand.

I am quite sure the Board members would be happy to answer questions from anyone who is interested, even if that interest does not extend as far as wanting to be involved.
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by teacher »

Of course they're "self appointed", there's no membership yet established to vote them in. I'm sure that when such membership begins to establish itself there will be votes to determine who's in charge. Until than it's kinda hard not to "self appoint" yourself to get this started.

Of course employers will be against this. Any organization or motion towards improving employee quality of life be it pay, benefits, schedules etc impacts employers profits (unless the product is priced properly). I've seen my share of shit operators and even the good ones that cut corners a little and this SHOULD BE BE ALLOWED and if you stand up against it you should not have your lively hood in jeopardy because of it.

Code of ethics, fee guide of some guide and legal aid/support for members should be first on the agenda.
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Cat Driver »

If some of the people who are starting this group are employees of aviation companies who are part of being responsible for the need to bring about changes, what protection do they have from losing their jobs?
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by freakonature »

On page one of this thread Widow has provided a link to the college incorporation. This lists the names of the first directors.
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