Flight Security-threads merged

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Doc
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Doc »

Youngback wrote:Ahramin, you surprise me. The difference between a train or a bus and an airplane is quite different. You don't see terrorists, or even the engineers jumping the tracks at will to kill people. Even a bus is fairly limited as to how many people it can injure. The risks to the greater population from an airliner with no security checks are so great that it will never happen. Not in North America or Europe at least.

If your comment was tongue in cheek, I didn't get it.
That's the "cool aid" the government wants you to drink. Me? I'm driving. Screw 'em.
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Youngback »

Well if the general population wants to travel in what is essentially a cruise missile, then they go through the checks. I don't personally have a problem being checked. It is annoying but screens the most common tools used by anyone wanting to hijack an airplane. Where I am flying now, I have been brought guns, knives, and in one case explosives by the police to see if I will allow it on the aircraft. The guns and knives I keep until we get to where we are going. Obviously the explosives are staying behind.

The problem with humans is that they are very creative. Any security system can be bypassed with enough time and thought. That doesn't mean that we should give up and they shouldn't screen passengers. It just means we have to adapt. If screening keeps 99% of the crazy people (who lack creativity) from hijacking a plane then I would say it is successful. However, as long as there are airplanes in this world, there are going to be those who try and hijack them.

The other side of this is that maybe the airlines should issue you a gun when you board the aircraft. That way, if you attempt to hijack the aircraft, there could be 499 other people there to stop you. Then everyone could stop bitching about security because now it is fully in your (and everyone elses )capable hands. There might be a few unfortunate deaths from handling mishaps, but hey, the airlines are safe!
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Nark »

The goal of terrorist's isn't to kill thousands and thousands of people in one bang. It's simply to get attention to their cause.

There have been many, many bombings on a bus, also many, many train stations have been bombed as well.

So, he really isn't out to lunch when he says you don't have the right for air travel.
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Youngback »

Nark, I understand that. But they don't screen to get on a bus or into a train station. I know what happened in Mumbai last year. My only point is that there is a reason for screening air travellers. A bomb in a train station will kill or injure those in the immediate vicinity. I don't think I need to mention what an airplane can be used for.

Also, it is not always about a cause. Some people just want to kill. It might seem a bit cliche but the Michael Caine quote from The Dark Knight seems appropriate. "Some men just want to watch the world burn". Religious fanaticism, mentally imbalanced people, sometimes people you would think were perfectly rational. You might think its all about a cause but not everyone thinks in what you and I would consider normal terms. I met a guy in Malaysia a few years ago who was spouting his views to me. Raised the hairs on my spine listening to what he was saying.
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Re: Flight Security

Post by ywgflyboy »

So obviously we have different personal thoughts on carry on. But i will assume that no one knows the answer to my checked bag security question.
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Re: Flight Security

Post by JBI »

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Last edited by JBI on Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ywgflyboy
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Re: Flight Security

Post by ywgflyboy »

Aw thanks. Scary to think about how much unprotected items enter our aircraft.
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boeingboy
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Now it's really stupid - no cabin bags allowed

Post by boeingboy »

So now we are not allowed any carry ons except a small purse.

From our friends at Transport Canada:
"On December 28, Transport Canada put in place enhanced security measures for passengers on flights bound for the United States. Effective immediately, US bound passengers are not allowed to bring carry on bags into the cabin of the aircraft, with some exceptions. Passengers may carry with them the following items: medication or medical devices, small purses, cameras, coats, items for care of infants, laptop computers, crutches, canes, walkers, containers carrying life sustaining items, a special needs item, musical instruments, or diplomatic or consular bags. "

This is just retarded. I fail to see what this is going to accomplish. The guy in Detroit just had this stuf on his body, what good is banning all luggage from the cabin going to do?

There was no prior warning to this either. This coupled with the inop computer system lead to a complete mess at YVR yesterday. It was a disaster. People showed up with their carry ons and then told you couldn't take them on. Some didn't have purses or small bags for their personnel stuff. I always carried a spare change of cloths for when they lost my bag - or for short trips I just had a carry on to get in and out quicker.

This is just stupid now.
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Re: Now it's really stupid - no cabin bags allowed

Post by niss »

All common sense just flew out the window.
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Re: Now it's really stupid - no cabin bags allowed

Post by godsrcrazy »

Typical knee jerk reaction just like the liquids a few years back. They are also saying you will have to remain in your seat for 1 hour prior to landing.
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Re: Flight Security

Post by Topspin »

arictaylor wrote: Does anyone know what percent or how checked bags are searched. I recently heard a figure that only 5% of checked bags in Canada received any sort of security check and that mail/packages receive almost nil.
Can tell you lots about it, at least for class 1 airports in Canada.

Their is supposed to be 100% hold baggage screening. Everything.

Every checked piece gets X-ray, those that fail x-ray go to a sort of CT-scanner. Anything else that fails that lands physical search and Explosive Trace.
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Re: Flight Security

Post by Liquid Charlie »

If its not a lap top, or a purse, it should be checked. Personal opinions aside
I have to disagree - all I ever travel with is carry on - legal sized and packed well with enough clothes for a week or more. I am a very efficient packer and a standby traveller - yes stop the stupidity with people trying to carry on TV sets and full sized luggage - but get a sreening system that works -- these knee jerk reactions never last long and all they do is piss people off. I always think of a guy with a stick poking a bees nest - lots of activety but not for long.

All this bullshit clearly shows is that the system is crap and there were never the funds, training or hardware to make it really work -- it's more smoke and mirrors than anything else and most screeners (in canada) are only worried about your f'n tooth paste and if it's in a plastic bag -- drives me nuts - try this - don't take the bag out of your luggage but leave it on top exposed in your carry on -- they will tear you bag apart just because they are pissed you didn't take it out but if you do remove it in the first place - guaranteed they will not give your bag a secong glance. True in Edmonton for sure -- :rolleyes:
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Re: Now it's really stupid - no cabin bags allowed

Post by Inverted2 »

Hmmm, when I travel for a short trip, I only bring a carry-on bag because I dont want the hassle of checking a bag when travelling on standby, and as well having to worry if my bag will actually get there in 1 piece. This crap is getting more ridiculous by the hour. Fortunately all this nonsense is for flights to the United States of Paranoia, so hopefully domestic flights keep some sense of normalcy.
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by linecrew »

Mach1 wrote:If terrorists are trying to get everyone to stop flying, does this make terrorists environmentalists?
Oh man, we better add Greenpeace to "the list"! :rolleyes:
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ywgflyboy
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Re: Flight Security

Post by ywgflyboy »

Again the internet failed my sarcasm haha. I just seriously do enjoy watching someone run onto the plane 3 minutes before the gate pulls back with a duffel bag and trying to cram it into a full over head bin knocking everyone in their path across the head.
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loopa
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Re: Flight Security

Post by loopa »

arictaylor wrote:So obviously we have different personal thoughts on carry on. But i will assume that no one knows the answer to my checked bag security question.
I'll answer your question. Watch the CBC documentary on Transport Canada's security delegations. Your mind will blow away; even our political members say that "It's not a matter of IF it will happen, it's a matter of WHEN. The problem is that there's no system in place to security check all baggage; with the numbers of travelers they say that it's virtually impossible. I'm not too sure about that. But in my opinion, checking in bags and carryon's are indifferent. But if anything, at least ALL carryon's are inspected at the security trespass. I just believe we need to have smarter TSA agents. But since that day is never going to come, we're always as that documentary calls it, Flying on Risk.
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Doc
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Re: The Terrorist Have Won!

Post by Doc »

I don't really expect another 911. At least not with airplanes. They have changed the way we work, play and breath. From day to day. That was their real mission. In that way 911 was a success beyond measure.
Next time. The Americans live and breath for the "next" time. The country is run by paranoia. The Yanks always think someone is trying to undermine their way of life.
Next time.......it won't be an airplane driven into a shinning example of capitalism, it'll be an American institution. They'll attempt to take out an American leisure pastime. Next time, they'll take out the Super Bowl. Hell, there's already an instructional video on the subject available at Wall Mart for less than five bucks! Hollywood has already shown them the way!
Of course, they'll want to hit it when the Red Skins are playing the Cow Boys, and that might not happen in our lifetime?
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Re: Now it's really stupid - no cabin bags allowed

Post by Tango01 »

godsrcrazy wrote:Typical knee jerk reaction just like the liquids a few years back. They are also saying you will have to remain in your seat for 1 hour prior to landing.

I can see people taking shits on their seats because they couldn't get up to use the lav while still at FL350.
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ywgflyboy
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Re: Flight Security

Post by ywgflyboy »

Maybe its time to consider redirecting all the millions we spend on enforcing illegal imported drug laws in Canada to border security. There would be no need to spend all that money on cocaine crack downs if it couldn't enter our country in the first place :roll:

No intention to open that can of worms. Just needed to say it haha
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Re: Flight Security

Post by Conquest Driver »

U.S. TSA will search your bag for any reason they feel like (or no reason at all). If it's locked, they'll destroy the lock. If they're feeling generous, you may find a note in your bag indicating it was searched.

Not sure about Canada. As far as I know they still allow you to lock your bag, so I think it's a bit more rare.
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Re: Flight Security

Post by ywgflyboy »

They always leave me a little note saying how much they enjoyed going through my bag. And they must go right to the bottom cause that is where they leave the note! :P
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Re: Now it's really stupid - no cabin bags allowed

Post by slowstream »

I agree, that often the knee jerk reaction come without much thought.............but,

before everyone gets on this bandwagon lets look at a couple of things,

People have taken things to extreme with their carry-on luggage and we've all seen it, packing their luggage into the overhead compartments because they don't want to wait for their checked baggage. These people slow the boarding and de-planing of aircraft as they try store & retrieve their baggage.

Many of these carry-on pieces have such weight that during turbulence these carry-on bags become very dangerous to the people sitting around them. I don't know for certain but I strongly suspect that the latches for the overhead compartments were never designed to for some of those weights especially during turbulence.

Lastly, how much does one have to have available to them during a flight? How much does one need to take with them for a holiday or a business meeting?

I've watched in amazement in lineups for checking in at some of the luggage that people take with them, they may as well be packing trunks for 5 week ocean crossings of the early 1900's!

Given the the exceptions on that list, the only thing I see missing is the freedom to bring eatable food so I don't have to rely on airline food.

As I see it, its sad when governments have to legislate common sense and as a society we're too arrogant to understand it.
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Security meassures one step behind

Post by V1RotateV2 »

This past week has been a clear example of TSA/CATSA improvisation and knee jerk reactions. Changing every hour since the memos that were coming out made no sense and just produced huge delays and cancellations.

How would staying in your seat for the last hour or not having the in-flight entertainment on would help prevent a bomber from doing his job?
How would a pat down help in airports like Laos, where the usual screen is poor and the pat down probably even worse?
Wasn't the new security measures after 9-11 supposed to guarantee "safe" travel?

All this new smoke and mirrors security is always one step behind, while terrorists are thinking ahead.

After 9-11 TSA decided to ban sharp objects. Too late, they were already used and useless for another attack.

After the failed shoe bomber TSA decided to screen shoes.

After the would be Xmas day bomber TSA decides to start patting down and realizes that explosives can still be brought onto a plane.

If the next terrorist decides to pack explosives up his rectum, that is the day I will stop flying as a passenger!
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Re: Now it's really stupid - no cabin bags allowed

Post by xsbank »

Well, like I said in another post, I have a friend who went to Peru with his son this Xmas - they made it and their bags are in New York.

In a nutshell, that is why I rarely surrender my bags to the tender mercies of the baggage-smasher. 2 weeks in Europe and Africa, one carry-on.
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Re: Security meassures one step behind

Post by . ._ »

V1RotateV2 wrote:If the next terrorist decides to pack explosives up his rectum, that is the day I will stop flying as a passenger!
Lol! I was thinking the same thing!

-istp :butthead: :shock:
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