ALPA, ACPA and everybody else who's involved in reciprocal..

[Niodatchi]

My dear brethren of all the airline pilot profession in Canada. Our way of life and conditions are now threatened. I have just heard from a family member of mine who is an Air Canada captain, that some contactual pilots from Germany, are not only stealing our jobs in Canada but also have the balls to ask for the privilege to fly for free on Air Canada under the privilege of Canjet!!! Yes these contract pilots operate B737 on behalf of Canjet. And Canjet, being part of ALPA and they think they have the right to fly jumpseats all across North America! Wrong!!! These temporary pilots don't even have a full RAIC pass! Full access to restricted areas on the airport! So No one should let them have a ride for free! These pilots are stealing jobs that any canadian could fullfill but this company,Canjet, is too cheap to pay for the qualification! It's totally unacceptable and I really want ACPA an ALPA to get together and put pressure on our Government to stop that! I know many of you out there are unemployed and could only dream of flying a B737-800.... In the meantime, I've heard that some Air Canada captains had the balls to refuse access to those contractual pilots! Hail to you brethren! Get rid of these pilots!Nio!

[confuzed]

Interesting

[jjj]

How would you expect me to filter out the contract pilots from the non?

When I hear the words "reciprocal pilot," I don't ask "who are they?" In fact, under our system, recip pilots are even getting on without me even knowing.

Niodatchi, these contract pilots are just pilots doing a job and filling a space. They aren't crossing a picket line - they are filling posted positions offered to them. They aren't the bad guy. I'd rather see Canucks filling those seats so my beef is with Canjet - not the pilots.

Ask yourself - if the roles were reversed - would you not go to their home country and fill a job offered to you under the same circumstances?

My policy is that all pilots are welcome on my recip agreement without question - I may try to make yycflyguy sweat a bit if I ever have the opportunity but he is my buddy.

This ought to be good - I wonder what S T L thinks?

JJJ

[flap16]

Are there any Canadian pilots that fly overseas on contract?
How about permanently?

[vortac]

I hear there is about sixty of them. Flooding the skies practically overnight. They possibly now outnumber original Canjet pilots.

I only find Canjet to blame, too cheap to train.

There is a Canadian pilots shortage.... errr correction, 737 Type Rated pilot shortage.

[North Shore]

I only find Canjet to blame, too cheap to train.

There is a Canadian pilots shortage.... errr correction, 737 Type Rated pilot shortage.

..No, no, no, you've got the wrong end of the stick completely - it's all Air Canada's fault! See, they ran Canadian out of business, which left a niche in the west, which the guys from Calgary filled with WestJet, which took all of the 737-rated pilots in the country, and that is why ze chermans are in Halifax!

[Rotten Apple #1]

And next up: No working overtime while there's unemployed pilots in Canada.

[KAG]

JJJ,
Just ask to see their RAIC pass.

[Rotten Apple #1]

So here we have a group of pilots who have legally been hired by a Canadian corporation, and have the legal right to work in Canada, and somebody's stirring up shit to make it tougher or more expensive for them to get back and forth to where they reside and be with their families.

Yeah, that comrade/brethren crap in order to deny priveleges to another group belongs back in the dustheap of history.

I wonder when the blacks and Jews get their turn at bat again?

[Lufthansa]

My dear brethren of all the airline pilot profession in Canada. Our way of life and conditions are now threatened. I have just heard from a family member of mine who is an Air Canada captain, that some contactual pilots from Germany, are not only stealing our jobs in Canada but also have the balls to ask for the privilege to fly for free on Air Canada under the privilege of Canjet!!! Yes these contract pilots operate B737 on behalf of Canjet. And Canjet, being part of ALPA and they think they have the right to fly jumpseats all across North America! Wrong!!! These temporary pilots don't even have a full RAIC pass! Full access to restricted areas on the airport! So No one should let them have a ride for free! These pilots are stealing jobs that any canadian could fullfill but this company,Canjet, is too cheap to pay for the qualification! It's totally unacceptable and I really want ACPA an ALPA to get together and put pressure on our Government to stop that! I know many of you out there are unemployed and could only dream of flying a B737-800.... In the meantime, I've heard that some Air Canada captains had the balls to refuse access to those contractual pilots! Hail to you brethren! Get rid of these pilots!Nio!

Niodatchi, You can't be for real ?????,

"I really want ACPA an ALPA to get together and put pressure on our Government to stop that! ", What does the government have to do with it?

I think we should put a stop to YOU !!!, who let you loose.... bitter.


P.S. These guys working over here full time, be it on contract or not and have most likely no other means of getting home on their time off. Just put yourself in there position.
Another question: Why should the J/S agreement should stop within North America anyways?......Pilot is Pilot where ever they are coming from.

[flyinhigh]

So basically when the sunwing/skyservice/canjet/transat pilots go over seas in the summer on contract they should be treated like a bag of shit because they are there STEALING jobs as you put it.

Get over it, sounds like you lost out on your chance to pay canjet 24K to fly a 37-800 for the next 2 years. Pucker up I hear voyageur is hiring.

[HavaJava]

So basically when the sunwing/skyservice/canjet/transat pilots go over seas in the summer on contract they should be treated like a bag of shit because they are there STEALING jobs as you put it.

Get over it, sounds like you lost out on your chance to pay canjet 24K to fly a 37-800 for the next 2 years. Pucker up I hear voyageur is hiring.

NO! Every other charter company that sends pilots overseas in the summers has reciprocal agreements that allow foreign pilots to come to Canada in the winter. Canjet low-balled a bid for a contract even though they knew they couldn't afford to train pilots for it. Somehow managed to convince someone in the government that there were no qualified pilots in Canada to fill the positions. Unfortunately, they forget that you don't have to have a B737 type rating to be a qualified pilot under Transport Canada's definition.

Basically, they don't have a reciprical agreement like other charter companies and frankly Canjet management is nothing but scum in my opinion.

[Niodatchi]

Thanks to you all for your replies, it's always constructive to consider different opinions! Cheers! Nio

[AME 283]

I am amazed, all this discussion over a few pilot jobs, ever look at where your heavy maintenance is being done ?? Note in the U.S. or EASA countries, but in Central and south america and Asia. Do we really want to keep aviation in Canada ?? Aviation has become a world market, in a world economy. I doubt that protectionism will work

[Obbie]

Look......all other opinions aside

If a pilot is asking to jump under the Canjet
reciprocal agreement.

Then he/she must produce a valid RAIC, and valid CanJet Company ID.
I doubt they would have either of these items.
In which case they must be denied under the agreement.

Any pilot letting them ride for the hell of it is not following
correct jump seat protocol and as such is putting the entire
program in jeopardy.

Abuse it gentlemen.....and we will end up loosing it.

[AuxBatOn]

If there is a seat available, what's the issue with hooking a brother up, as long as it's within the agreements?

What happenned to camaraderie? Since when do people try to blade people and cause them trouble?

[jjj]

Obbie,

I just reviewed the Jazz and AC reciprocal jump seat agreements - no comment on the other dozen or so.

Producing a RAIC is not a requirement.

Obbie, respectfully, unless verification is a requirement I will not ask to see one nor am I aware of the right to request/inspect such a document to allow or deny travel.

Edited because version 1 came out bad.

JJJ

[KAG]

At the end of the day, if there is a seat not being used in the back, a pilot license should be enough; I vaguely remember that was how it was pre Sept 11th.

JJJ, I only mentioned the RAIC thing as you asked in the first line of your response how would you filter the contract guys out, the RAIC would do it. I'm not against these guys taking up a seat, as I myself would like/want the same courtesy if the roles were reversed.

[jjj]

KAG - above post edited

as that dude from YYZ centre would say.

"Rog!"

JJJ

[CD]

I believe that you will find the RAIC is only a specific requirement if granting the commuting pilot access to the flight deck as per the available exemption:

The purpose of this exemption is to permit Canadian air operators who wish to offer their flight deck jump seat to commuting pilots and their pilots-in-command to grant admission to the flight deck of their aeroplane on domestic flights to pilots employed by other Canadian air operators commuting to or from their flight assignments, subject to the conditions below.
...
This exemption is subject to the following conditions:
...
4. The pilot-in-command shall verify the identity of the commuting pilot by examining and comparing his or her Restricted Area Identity Card (RAIC) with:
a valid passport;
a valid Airline Transport Pilot Licence and a valid Medical Certificate; or
a valid Commercial Pilot Licence and a valid Medical Certificate.

...

The following is intended to provide air operators, pilots-in-command, and commuting pilots with an interpretation of the conditions of the exemption and an acceptable means of compliance with the conditions of the exemption...

4. The commuting pilot needs to present the following documents to the pilot-in-command: a RAIC, and
* a valid Passport;
* a valid Airline Transport Pilot Licence and a valid Medical Certificate; or
* a valid Commercial Pilot Licence and a valid Medical Certificate.
* the commuting pilot must present a RAIC in all cases.
* the documents presented need to be valid – i.e.: not expired. The expiry dates on the documents will need to be verified.
* the names appearing on all documents need to be the same.
* the documents all need to be authentic – i.e.: not tampered with, genuine.
* if any of the documents are missing or do not appear genuine – the pilot-in-command is expected to deny admission to the flight deck.

EXEMPTION FROM SUBSECTION 705.27(3) OF THE CANADIAN AVIATION REGULATIONS

[invertedattitude]

Wait wait wait a second here... can someone from TC answer me something?

You mean to tell me as an Air Traffic Controller with our "Secret" security clearance, we're not allowed to fly in the jumpseat because of security reasons...

But if I show up with my CPL and CAT1 in hand I'm allowed? Seriously who the hell makes up these completely arbitrary rules?

[Rotten Apple #1]

Inverted, no one's riding WJ's jumpseat other than standby company employees, and only if there's no seat in the back.The 'Reciprocal' jumpseat program only puts a participating airline's pilot in an empty seat in the back.

As well, the former famil program for ATC was instituted in order for controllers to familiarize themselves with the day to day operational environment of the pilots, something tough to do from the cabin.

John

[yycflyguy]

How would you expect me to filter out the contract pilots from the non?

When I hear the words "reciprocal pilot," I don't ask "who are they?" In fact, under our system, recip pilots are even getting on without me even knowing.

Niodatchi, these contract pilots are just pilots doing a job and filling a space. They aren't crossing a picket line - they are filling posted positions offered to them. They aren't the bad guy. I'd rather see Canucks filling those seats so my beef is with Canjet - not the pilots.

Ask yourself - if the roles were reversed - would you not go to their home country and fill a job offered to you under the same circumstances?

My policy is that all pilots are welcome on my recip agreement without question - I may try to make yycflyguy sweat a bit if I ever have the opportunity but he is my buddy.

This ought to be good - I wonder what S T L thinks?

JJJ

What makes you think I would willingly get on an aircraft that you are commanding, hmmm?

[invertedattitude]

Inverted, no one's riding WJ's jumpseat other than standby company employees, and only if there's no seat in the back.The 'Reciprocal' jumpseat program only puts a participating airline's pilot in an empty seat in the back.

As well, the former famil program for ATC was instituted in order for controllers to familiarize themselves with the day to day operational environment of the pilots, something tough to do from the cabin.

John

That's exactly why myself and just about every other ATC'er wants it back.

I have been fortunate enough to have a couple of rides in a 37' flight deck, as well as a Dash-8, and all the crews were great to talk to!

However I would say that 99% of ATC with 9 years of service or under has never seen the inside of an operational flight deck.

So there's guys with almost a 1/3 of their career under their belt who outside of a few computer based lessons could tell you anything about how a pilot does his job. It creates a big disconnect between ATC and pilots, I would think jumpseat trips would greatly improve both of our working envrionments, improve efficiency and even safety more than any classroom or computer training could ever teach you.

Someone at TC needs to really sit down and look at this at least for certified "fam" trips at the very least...

[yycflyguy]

Go for it. I would also like the Captain to have full authority on deciding who sits in the flight deck over and beyond qualified employees. ACPA submitted a request for family members to be re-instated and allowed flight deck access during flight and it was kyboshed by TC saying that they would be a distraction during an emergency. Ask the FedEx guys if they would have preferred a wife sitting with them or a "qualified" employee.