Have you ever been asked your AvCanada @ an Interview?

[LousyFisherman]

I would rather have a weekend buffoon in my employ than a sackless weasle.

Well, I guess you can go out and hire a few then BN and run an organization with them ... more power to you..

Hire both kinds. Call the result Air Canada. Welcome to the real world.

LF

[doitup]

It really comes down to where your loyalties lie. The person ditar bladed (for want of a better expression) was clearly pretty naive to post his his photos on facebook. His immaturity didnt prepare him that there are many people (supposed friends of friends) who will stick it to you because they feel they are in a position to judge other peoples behaviour. So the guy got drunk, puked and wanted to show his friends what an ass he was. He done nothing wrong, nothing that Harvard, Yale, Oxford graduates(the supposed smartest people in the world) dont do everyday. Who gives a flying f**k? It does not reflect in any way on his ability to safely operate an aeroplane.

So Ditar, let me ask you. If your friend (you know the one that you have actually met) applied for the job would you tell your chief pilot that he has friends who drink, puke and then have the audacity to laugh about the photos someone took of this hideous, irresponsible and unprofessional act. Dude, how does your friend (you know the one that you have actually met) feel about you screwing his friend out of a job?

I know there are people who are like this, but it makes me especially sad when people have to boast about screwing their friends (the one that you have actually met) like this.

[doitup]

Oh yeah, as for the original question. I would hope that a potential employer would have absolutely no interest in what is said on an anonymous forum. If I was asked I would probably say something about how I read to keep abreast of recent developments in the industry. However, as its an anonymous forum I would prefer not to divulge my ID.

I have never been asked at an interview though.

[Cat Driver]

If someone is not willing to divulge their ID their opinions are worth exactly what their made up name is...nothing.

[ditar]

So Ditar, let me ask you. If your friend (you know the one that you have actually met) applied for the job would you tell your chief pilot that he has friends who drink, puke and then have the audacity to laugh about the photos someone took of this hideous, irresponsible and unprofessional act. Dude, how does your friend (you know the one that you have actually met) feel about you screwing his friend out of a job?

I know there are people who are like this, but it makes me especially sad when people have to boast about screwing their friends (the one that you have actually met) like this.

I'm not quite sure I understand your question. If my friend applied for the job it wouldn't have been an issue because he exercises better judgement with what he posts online. I don't care what he does in his private time. And in that situation what his own friends do would have been irrelevant. If his friend is an alcoholic (for example) that doesn't make him one.

As for what my friend thinks of what I did, I advised him that his friend, in the interests of his career, should exercise more discretion long before this incident even took place. He agreed with me. How is it that you say I screwed over my friend? He was not even involved in this incident. And I still don't understand how I even "judged" this person. I was asked by the CP if I knew anything about him, and I objectively made information available. It wasn't my fault that the only information available to me characterized him poorly. That's where my involvement ended. For all I know there could have been a dozen other reasons why he wasn't hired.

[doitup]

Fair enough Ditar, you obviously done what you thought was right. I think its pretty strange that you would offer up irrelevant information about someone you have never met using photos that you know nothing about. But hey, each to their own. If you offered up objective information you would have called your friend and asked him what he was like, and maybe why he had the photos on his facebook.

For most people Facebook is a website to keep in touch with friends. He probably thought only his friends would see it. Clearly that was his mistake.

[ditar]

I think that's one of the major themes of this discussion, that if you're posting anything online you should assume everyone can see it, not just those you may have intended it for. That is the assumption I work under.

As for me calling up my friend to get a better reference for the guy, I trust that had the CP been interested in hiring him, he would have called his references, who would have provided more information. He may have even done so. Whether the information I provided was relevant to the process or not, I do not know. The question of whether such information is relevant to employability is clearly a contentious one. Like I said, in this case I was not privy to the exact details of why he ultimately wasn't hired.

All that being said, if I found myself in a similar situation again, I might not get involved, despite my views on the matter.

[Meatservo]

People are confusing two issues. What is upsetting some is the idea of having their weekend or off-duty activities judged. If this was the case, none of us would be above reproach. I would be very surprised if anyone here has never drank until he was sick, or had their you-know-what where it didn't belong once or twice. This issue, in reality, is about people being able to tell the difference between what is tasteful to display in public and what is not. It speaks to your ability to make mature choices. If, in fact,(like one of our friends who has been outspoken on the subject here), you are so indispensable at your job that there are no repercussions to your behaviour off-duty, your attitude, or your appearance, then I guess you should be exempt from this discussion. In this case you wouldn't be much different from any rock star, heiress, actor or golf pro. For the rest of us, this discussion is about whether or not it's appropriate to make a decision about someone's maturity or ability to make decisions or maybe even general likability based on how he or she makes decisions in a social environment. Maybe not what he does as much as what he chooses to put on permanent display.

Look at it this way, (sorry for being rude). Everybody, including Cat Driver, defecates. We all know this. What, then, would be your opinion of someone who posted images of himself taking a dump on facebook? We shouldn't judge him, according to some of you, because everybody defecates. Even if we privately think it's distasteful to show pictures of it happening, we can't allow that to influence whether we would want to work with him? This is not realistic.

Ditar didn't say he took exception to images of the person drinking and having a good time. He took exception to the person deciding to post pictures of himself lying facedown in a pile of puke, apparently, or some similarly undignified position.

Also, the modern "anything goes" attitude towards this kind of transparency is a very new thing. Many more conservative people have trouble not being judgmental, to be honest, because in their upbringing they were taught to monitor their public image more carefully and to keep their "dirty laundry" to themselves. They tend to look upon an inability or unwillingness to manage their image as a weakness, a lack of dignity, or a lack of self-respect, which in the past were considered to be personality traits. Some people, when faced with two or more applicants with otherwise basically similar professional credentials, may feel compelled to choose the one with what they perceive as positive personality traits and reject the one they percieve as having negative ones.

Paraphrasing someone, I think it might have been Abraham Lincoln, "I find that people with no vices tend also to have no attributes" or something like that. I actually believe this is true. Personally I still think it's appropriate to excersise discretion with your public appearance however, and posting a photograph of something gives it far more permanence than just having done it. You're saying, "this is what I want people to know about me", and guess what, in the case of Ditar's example, the guy's wish came true.

As for the validity of your opinions being dependent on your willingness to reveal your identity on AvCanada, I (obviously) have to respectfully disagree. Obviously, there is no way of controlling who reads this, and while I might be comfortable saying anything I say on this forum to its intended recipient(s), there is no way of controlling who else reads it. I'm sure if everybody here only posted whatever they were sure their boss would like to hear them say, it might be a more polite place, but it would also be less interesting and probably less honest. I'll stick with the pseudonym for now. When I've retired like ., I'll re-evaluate. If an employer asked me about it, I'd probably just lie. I wonder if this makes me a "sackless weasel". Probably.

edited for spelling...d'oh

[Meatservo]

I'm not sure you were entirely picking up what I was laying down, engine guy.

[Wilbur]

I would suggest the true sackless weasle is the one who publicly posts pictures of himself doing certain things, and then tries to blame others for the consequences that result from having done so. If you don't want potential employers or anyone else forming opinions about you based on some things you have done, don't tell them about those things and sure as hell don't post pictures of yourself doing them. If you post stuff on the internet thinking it will only be seen by the select few people you want to see it, you're stupid.

The pictures and comments people post on facebook generally provide a very good representation of the person and their values. They write about and post pictures of themselves doing the things that are significantly meaningful to them, what they want to be known for, what they are proudest of. If being face down in a pool of vomit is a proud moment you want to be known for, well...........

I also think this "modern day, anything goes, transparent, non-judgemental" notion is nothing new hogwash. Those characteristics have been present in young people for eons. What is new is the way young people share their less than stellar behaviour with others. Prior to the internet, you talked about your drunken antics with a few select people. If others didn't think what you did was cool, you got that feedback immediately and knew to keep what you did to yourself and to think twice about doing it again. Nowdays, a lot of people share these types of stories on facebook or by email with little appreciation of the fact that they are sharing them with EVERYONE. People who disapprove rarely provide feedback, whereas the like minded provide encourgement. It's way too easy to hit that enter/send key without fully appreciating the consequences.

[Cat Driver]

When I've retired like ., I'll re-evaluate.

Just to clear up why I post in my own name it is to give credibility to my statements about how the regulator really works at the top level of their management.

I was not retired when I made the decision to post in my own name, but to be fair I really was not worried about retribution from TCCA as they had already driven me out of working in Canadian aviation and I was employed off shore safe from their power structure.

Another interesting fact is even knowing about my problems with TCCA I was recruited to work for the Greek CAA as an advisor......go figure.

[C-GGGQ]

Since I'm not a Facebook person, can someone more knowledgeable please explain how the general public can see a person’s personal pictures and postings on Facebook? I thought that access was only granted to "friends"??

Are you familiar with the "Six degrees of separation" theory? She told two people, and they told two people.......

You can set up your account so only certain people have access. But most don't bother.

and that would be EXACTLY what i do

[Meatservo]

I also think this "modern day, anything goes, transparent, non-judgemental" notion is nothing new hogwash. Those characteristics have been present in young people for eons. What is new is the way young people share their less than stellar behaviour with others. Prior to the internet, you talked about your drunken antics with a few select people. If others didn't think what you did was cool, you got that feedback immediately and knew to keep what you did to yourself and to think twice about doing it again. Nowdays, a lot of people share these types of stories on facebook or by email with little appreciation of the fact that they are sharing them with EVERYONE. People who disapprove rarely provide feedback, whereas the like minded provide encourgement. It's way too easy to hit that enter/send key without fully appreciating the consequences.

This is true, but I still think it's more difficult to explain to a younger person why their personal and professional behaviour are intertwined. I'm not really talking about young people versus old people, but I think modern sensibilities tend way more towards the liberal side of things. I'm not saying I wish we could return to the days where someone could legally get fired for being gay, or anything like that, but I do believe people today have a tendency to share too much about themselves when in the past people were encouraged to show a bit more dignity.

Wearing white socks with a black suit or a silly tie used to be a good way to fail a job interview, now we're indignant when we hear about someone not getting a job because he put his coarse and vulgar behaviour on the internet.

[gulfan]

I post under this website under my real name, which isn't only stupid and shows up in Google, but also potentially may have cost me a job at an airline.

[Invertago]

I will PM people with my real name, and I don't try that hard to stay anonymous on here, it would be pretty easy to figure out my identity on this site if you know me in person. I just don't particularly like my name showing up all over google. If you're retired, there isn't a lot left to loose by posting under your real name. Once I start with my pension, I'll sign in under my real name and throw some shit around

[Lurch]

I will PM people with my real name, and I don't try that hard to stay anonymous on here, it would be pretty easy to figure out my identity on this site if you know me in person. I just don't particularly like my name showing up all over google. If you're retired, there isn't a lot left to loose by posting under your real name. Once I start with my pension, I'll sign in under my real name and throw some shit around

+1, anybody who knows me personally knows this is me

These user names aren't anonymous, just a little poking around and you can figure out who they really are. Especially if you know them.

Lurch

[Lpsi]

I was remembering back a few years ago when I was in Smithers, interviewing for their low time program. The people I was interviewing with asked me if I read AvCanada and if I posted on there. Of course, I said yes to both. They then proceeded to ask me what my ID was! I said to them "thats the beauty of an Anonymous Web Board!!! Have any of you ever been asked?

This company in YYD ? If its the same one your talking about

Recently they sent out an anonymous questionnaire regarding company safety issues. It was sent using company webmail (read internal here). The reply was internal also using the recipients webmail. ??? Duh? Anonymous Eh?
Be very careful to answer everything the way it should be answered as to not screw up your chances for a promotion. Sad, because the intent on the questionnaire should be to gain knowledge of the weaknesses in the sms system. Its not able to happen when someone holds your future in the balance.

Think of what lies ahead.

Perhaps they would like to have the questionnaire answered on AvCanada, after all they read here and its as close to anonymous as you can have.

What d ya think

[BoostedNihilist]

I would suggest the true sackless weasle is the one who publicly posts pictures of himself doing certain things, and then tries to blame others for the consequences that result from having done so. If you don't want potential employers or anyone else forming opinions about you based on some things you have done, don't tell them about those things and sure as hell don't post pictures of yourself doing them. If you post stuff on the internet thinking it will only be seen by the select few people you want to see it, you're stupid.

And with this statement you've shown a complete lack of understanding of how the world as it exists today works.

Yeah sure, I'll concede, don't post pictures of yourself doing dumb things, whatever.. okay.. but... EVERYONE carries around cameras.. I've been tagged in photos that I can't even look at because I am not a friend of a friend, or a friend.. the information can be put out there on facebook without you taking part in the posting, or the picture taking. This should be clear to you and your buddies who HATE being caught abusing your power of authority.. surely those people should be held accountable for their actions based on pictures and video?

It's funny, how you argue for the context to be included and how a video or a picture is not good enough to judge a police officer but when it comes down to joe public you don't extend the same courtesy.. The true sackless wealse is the guy who rallys to enjoy protections he would not fight for for others. I'm trying to figure out if a person like this is a fascist or a hypocrite.

I also think this "modern day, anything goes, transparent, non-judgemental" notion is nothing new hogwash. Those characteristics have been present in young people for eons. What is new is the way young people share their less than stellar behaviour with others. Prior to the internet, you talked about your drunken antics with a few select people. If others didn't think what you did was cool, you got that feedback immediately and knew to keep what you did to yourself and to think twice about doing it again. Nowdays, a lot of people share these types of stories on facebook or by email with little appreciation of the fact that they are sharing them with EVERYONE. People who disapprove rarely provide feedback, whereas the like minded provide encourgement. It's way too easy to hit that enter/send key without fully appreciating the consequences.

Again, you show your lack of understanding. Facebook pictures can be set to 'everyone' 'friends' or 'friends of friends' What burned me is a friend of a friend douching this guy out.. We don't know what this guys security settings were but this stuff isn't out there for 'all' to see as you seem to believe.

I see you are of the mentality that if you don't get caught you have done nothing wrong. Well, coming from someone loosely affiliated with law enforcement I find this attitude troubling. You admit that these actions are the same, or at least characteristic of youth for 'eons' yet, you give those folks a pass why? because there is no evidence? Well, I guess that means that so long as there are no pictures everyone is honest and upstanding.

I'm sure your employers would love your dissertation on the acceptability of assult with dog feces.. (speaking of hitting that enter button a wee bit too soon)

You have it exactly bacwards.. transparecny has brought with it judgementalism. why? because we can sit around and talk about it. You say it yourself.. you were unnacountable for your actions in the past because nobody knew about them.. well, this is a particularly poor attitude for aviation.. what else will you hide when it suits your image.. overtourqing a prop? Flying overweight? You people who believe if you are not caught doing something bad then it is alright are a scurge and a hazard to all who are around you. Almost as bad as a rat.

[BoostedNihilist]

This thread was not about saying anything behind anyone’s back... It was about someone’s own posting on here or someone’s own pictures on FB being used as a referance for them or against them in in some cases. If you post it how is that talking behind anyone’s back, the potential employer was allowed to look for themselves and make there own decision from what was there.

I don't care what you personally think this thread is about.

I myself would show any company I would consult for my profile on FB or anything I post on here.

As would I.. I am a true believer in suffering the consequences for you actions.. as such, I would gladly show a potential employer my facebook page.. What's your point?

Edited

[BoostedNihilist]

As for what my friend thinks of what I did, I advised him that his friend, in the interests of his career, should exercise more discretion long before this incident even took place. He agreed with me. How is it that you say I screwed over my friend? He was not even involved in this incident. And I still don't understand how I even "judged" this person. I was asked by the CP if I knew anything about him, and I objectively made information available. It wasn't my fault that the only information available to me characterized him poorly. That's where my involvement ended. For all I know there could have been a dozen other reasons why he wasn't hired.

You're leaving out the important detail where you logged into your facebook account in order to show a third party photos which he did not have access to.

[Wilbur]

Sure, the world is a little different today with everyone having a camera and you can't control what others post, but that doesn't mean posting your own picturnes is a cleaver thing to do. It only means that engaging in unbecomming behaviour is a little riskier nowdays.

I don't advocate passing judgement on a prospective candidate based on a few pictures or video clips, but I would certainly be asking the person to explain them, put context to them, consider how old they are, how many there are, what the person's attitude toward them is, etc. They are only one piece of a larger picture. However, I also recognize that there are a good number of people out there who will pass judgement on nothing more than those few images, as well evidenced in the police related threads on this website. As I previously posted, my view toward job applicants is everything in moderation, including moderation, and I can't possilbly determine that soley on the basis of some pictures.

This isn't an issue of right or wrong. It's about a prospective employer wanting the most complete body of background information they can get regarding a job candidate. There is nothing inherently "wrong" with partying and getting drunk every weekend. In some occupations/businesses, such as yours you seem to infer, it's desireable behaviour as a method of building client contacts and relationships. However, it may also be seen as behaviour inconsistent with other fields of endevour or be seen negatively by a particular employer.

It also isn't an issue of having done nothing wrong because you didn't get caught. In the past, your errors in judgement were seen by fewer people and when warranted, you usually got immediate negative feedback. You had the opportunity to learn from your mistakes and change your behaviour without "everyone" knowing about them. For example, if I drank too much and acted like an idiot when out with my 4 buddies, they told me so pretty quickly the next time they saw me. I didn't need to post pictures of my antics and wait for feedback from 673 "friends," and I highly doubt young people today need to do so either.

[BoostedNihilist]

That's pretty moderate there Wilbur.. I can respect that...

It also isn't an issue of having done nothing wrong because you didn't get caught. In the past, your errors in judgement were seen by fewer people and when warranted, you usually got immediate negative feedback. You had the opportunity to learn from your mistakes and change your behaviour without "everyone" knowing about them. For example, if I drank too much and acted like an idiot when out with my 4 buddies, they told me so pretty quickly the next time they saw me. I didn't need to post pictures of my antics and wait for feedback from 673 "friends," and I highly doubt young people today need to do so either.

I disagree. That is exactly what this about. If he had done nothing wrong, he would have nothing to hide, yet judgments are made on pictures.. therefore, if he was doing wrong by others standards based on pictures out of context then the situation is as I have described it.. you have done nothing wrong if there is no evidence. What would a perspective employer think about you if one of your four buddies shared some information they would not be privy to otherwise? Same situation we have here.

You speak of the past, well we don't live in the past, and your acknowlegment that the times have changed plays more to my position than yours.

What constitues an error in judgement can be defined in many different ways. This is why I have a problem with the scenario as it sits. Perhaps years ago your four buddies would tell you face to face that you were acting like an idiot.. well, today we communicate with our friends (and friends of friends) via facebook.. we don't tell anyone anything to their face anymore.. it is all done by text message, twitter, facebook or some other electronic means. What has happened to this poor chap is the modern day equivalent of an eavesdropper (or one of your four buddies) or a friend of one of your close friends gossiping to a perspective employer. It's not honorable. In the past we called these people snitches, or stoolies. Now, when it comes to illegal activity, I have no problem with snitches, however, we are not talking about illegal activities.

But, what if your friends didn't let you know what you were doing was wrong? What if these pictures fit into the norm and mores of society as it exists today. I mean, we can have a situation where this kid literally does not know that a world exists pre-internet.. and we can have an employer who still writes invoices on paper and has a filing cabinet for paperwork... the disconnect in cultural context favors those who wish to be judgmental. But this will change over time, and I disagree.

I have personal albums at home of some of the good old days.. engaged in acts which were not based on sound judgement.. I show them to my friends.. but they have never come into my house and asked to show my photos to anyone else, nor have they ever brought a friend into my house to look at the pictures... That is what this guy did.. he used his personal access to information to enable an extraneous entity to view pictures they otherwise would not have had accesss to. Which is the problem I have with the situation.. this guy wasn't putting 'everything out for all to see' be it not for the actions of a third party his perspective employer would have had no access to his profile or his information other than what is searchable by google. To me, this is not far removed from a friend coming and taking my personal albums and showing someone else who I did not intend to see those pictures.