Bird Strikes- Scenario

[felix0315]

This has been a somewhat concerning subject for me.
I am a new PPL flying out from CZBB.
During training, I've noticed birds flying nearby the airport.
During my flight test, I almost hit a flock while joining the circuit.
I know that if a bird came from the front window, it would pierce through the plexiglass window.

But would I, as the pilot be physically harmed or have the potential of being so when the window shatters?
Can a bird knock out my propeller/power plant?

If I am unharmed from the scenario above, but there is a big hole in the front, I would be calling MAYDAY, open the doors to lessen the drag and land right?

[AuxBatOn]

But would I, as the pilot be physically harmed or have the potential of being so when the window shatters?
Can a bird knock out my propeller/power plant?

I hit a bird flying a piston prop once. It got disintegrated by the prop. Just a lot of blood.

The bird would most likely get shredded to pieces by the prop before hitting the windshield.

On something without a spinny thing, it can get bad, especially at high speed. A Hawk (plane) shattered the windshield when it hit a... Hawk (the bird). Lots of blood, no chance of ejection without loosing legs and and quite a bit of noise, apparently!

Page 29
http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/dfs/pu ... ed-eng.pdf

If I am unharmed from the scenario above, but there is a big hole in the front, I would be calling MAYDAY, open the doors to lessen the drag and land right?

Open the doors to LESSEN the drag? Care to explain?

[ywgflyboy]

I think he is going on the assumption that if the front window was cracked open, air entering the cabin would act as drag, and by opening the door the air entering the window would proceed directly out the open door, not be held up in the cabin. That's my take on the question.

[felix0315]

I think he is going on the assumption that if the front window was cracked open, air entering the cabin would act as drag, and by opening the door the air entering the window would proceed directly out the open door, not be held up in the cabin. That's my take on the question.

exactly.
I recently saw a video of a Cessna 150 that went through a bird strike. The front window had a huge ass scary hole with another small one in the back.

[Dagwood]

The bird would most likely get shredded to pieces by the prop before hitting the windshield.

Maybe not quite... if you do the math: Say 2500RPM and 100kts, equals about 4 feet of travel per engine revolution. With a 2 blade prop, there is 2 feet of space between each propeller blade, which, hypothetically, would be enough for a bird to go "through" the propeller with the greatest of ease.

Illustrated with a propeller on a humid day:

Plenty of room for a bird between the blades

[Flying Low]

Opening the doors will allow air to flow in through the broken window and through the cabin. You are now facing 80-90 mph wind in a 152...not all that pleasent and obviously worse in a faster plane. By keeping the doors closed and not allowing the air out of the cabin you will actually face less wind. Just ask yourself this. At a constant airspeed (say 90 mph) how fast is the air moving just inside the pitot tube...the natural instinct is to say 90mph. Actually once the speed is constant the air doesn`t move at all...it is just pressurized a bit.

[Shiny Side Up]

I hit a bird flying a piston prop once. It got disintegrated by the prop. Just a lot of blood.

The bird would most likely get shredded to pieces by the prop before hitting the windshield.

Unless said bird contacts very close to the spinner they have a very good chance of making it through the prop. I've personally seen it in several instances, once where said bird survived. Two were Canada Geese which did substantial damage to the aircraft, One a King Air, another an Aztec. The King air suffered substantial damage to where the wing and the engine nacelle join, the Aztec lost one of its landing gear doors and damaged the brake lines. In both cases the bird made it largely whole through the prop arc. The third instance was a duck whom after being deprived of his tail feathers went tumbling between the fuselage and the strut of a Cessna I was flying - he also managed to miss the tail. This was just after leaving the ground on take off, so we came back and stopped to investigate. There was no damage to the airplane, and there was an unhappy duck a little stunned in a heap on the runway. To give an idea of how far there is between prop blades, you could see where the prop had trimmed most of his tail feathers and once again had caught him by creasing his bill.

[Invertago]

So thats why we always go fine pitch for take off and landing, if you hit the bird at a higher RPM less chance it will get past the prop right?

I've seen some pretty high flying birds though, I think I'll be flying around fine pitch in cruise now just to be safe.

[AuxBatOn]

I did not say it is impossible for the bird to survive going through the prop, but in my personnal experience, well, the bird did not.

Thinking about it, I also heard about such stories of bird flying through the prop intact, but I have never heard stories of birds shattering the canopy on piston singles.

I think he is going on the assumption that if the front window was cracked open, air entering the cabin would act as drag, and by opening the door the air entering the window would proceed directly out the open door, not be held up in the cabin. That's my take on the question.

After reading the initial post again this morning, I saw what he meant, but thanks!

[speed demon]

Several years ago at CZBB, a duck or gull penetrated the windshield of a C-152/172 of one of the flying schools there. Luckily the pilot's face wasn't in the way, because the bird went right through to the back of the craft. Even a little contact with a larger bird like an eagle can cause big damage to aircraft. So be very careful....tons of flocking ducks, gulls, eagles, and herons around there. It's the airport management's responsibility to manage wildlife hazards for your safety so let them know your concerns.

[felix0315]

I remember the time when I had my first solo.
I was coming down on a touch and go
I started flaring for a good touch down, and then all of a sudden I saw this giant eagle about 5-10 feet or so from the port side of my wing. I was like HOLY ****, lifted off and then advised tower about that eagle. The planes behind me all went around until the eagle was chased away.

[paydaymayday]

Remember . . . if you encounter birds where they may be hazardous to others, immediately give a pirep with the specifics of flock size, bird size, type, location, and any other pertinent information. Avoidance is the best strategy to keep from an unwanted dinner.

[felix0315]

Remember . . . if you encounter birds where they may be hazardous to others, immediately give a pirep with the specifics of flock size, bird size, type, location, and any other pertinent information. Avoidance is the best strategy to keep from an unwanted dinner.

+1
Wilco

[AEROBAT]

Birds can go right through your windshield and into your face. I have dodged birds at 8000'.

[felix0315]

I'm guessing under the right conditions I could be knocked out unconscious eh?

[Youngback]

Bird strike in Tanzania. Hit a stork and had it lock up the controls. I had a beer that night.

[wxguy]

I'm guessing under the right conditions I could be knocked out unconscious eh?

I found out while doing some reading on birdstrikes that on very rare occasions, people have even been killed!

(See: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=57139)

While filming aerial sequences low over a lake with the windshields removed from the open
cockpit biplane, a Jackdaw (Corvus monedula, 230 gm) passed through the propeller disc.
The pilot was struck in the face and almost knocked unconscious. He pulled up sharply to
avoid the water and hit power lines. There was a flash and the aircraft dived into the lake,
both occupants escaping. The pilot suffered severe facial cuts needing 50 stitches.

While in the climb on a flight from Atlantic City to Philadelphia, PA the aircraft struck a flock
of geese (Anser sp.) destroying the windshield. One or both pilots were incapacitated
resulting in an uncontrolled descent into the sea.

A Ruppell’s griffon vulture (Gyps rueppellii, 7.5 kg) holed the windshield killing the pilot.

As the floatplane was on final approach to a water-landing a bird, believed to be a
Cormorant (Phalacrocorax sp, up to 2.4 kg) holed the windshield. The pilot was stunned and
his face cut by his glasses, he came-to in the water. He released himself from the
submerged, inverted aircraft and was rescued by a nearby boat.

At 70 kts just after take-off, the windshield was shattered by a bird, wind blast impairing the
pilot’s vision. After landing and shutting down, the back of the aircraft was found to be on fire.
The pilot escaped but the aircraft was burnt out. It is believed the bird damaged a fuel line
allowing fuel to spray onto the hot exhaust.

Just after take off the pilot spotted geese (Anser sp.) but one penetrated the windshield and
hit the pilot. He cut the power and attempted to re-land but went off the end of the runway
into a building. The aircraft was destroyed.

About 20 miles from Addis Ababa, the aircraft collided with a White-backed vulture (Gyps
africanus, 5.4 kg). It struck the windshield causing the support structure and both windshields
to fail and collapse into the cockpit. The crew, although injured, maintained some control and
continued to Bole airport.

The South African registered aircraft was on final approach to the airport in the eastern
coastal port town near the Tanzanian border. It collided with a vulture (Gyps sp), which
came through the windshield breaking the pilot’s neck. The aircraft crashed and burned
killing the front seat passenger and resulting in severe burns to the passengers in the rear
seats.

http://www.int-birdstrike.org/Warsaw_Pa ... 0WPSA1.pdf

And just to make it clear, I am not suggesting that people wear helmets all the time.

Edit: Broken Link

[Big Pistons Forever]

In the mid 1990's a Pa 31 on final to YVR was had a mallard hit the pilots windshield. The force of the stike knocked out the pilot but fortunately they were two crew and the FO made a safe landing. The captain recovered from his injuries but there would probabably not been as happy an ending if the aircraft had been operated single pilot.

Apparently the captain used to joke that his last conscious thought was..... DUCK !

[Blue Side Down]

I'd like to offer my congratulations to the seven CF crews who managed to take birdstrikes while taxiing. If that's not an impressive feat, I don't know what is!

[canpilot]

Felix,

Good topic..

I've heard if the bird looks like its going to collide on option would be to lower your head slightly below the instrument panel to avoid getting smoked by said bird/ gunk. * this is just something that someone told me* I can see where this may be difficult to do operationally..

Eagles will actually try and attack the aircraft... so they might NOT avoid you.. I've seen it... and i was taught this by a well known float instructor who sadly is no longer with us.

On the seagulls,

Let me guess.. the near miss (seagulls) was either in mid-morning or in the evening?

Usually there is a exodus from the beach to the mountains of garbage immediately north of the airport when the tide goes in * food on the beach is covered*

Similarly, when the tide goes out the greedy seagulls try and balance their food with healthier choices w..and head south over the airport for the beach .. usually between Delta airpark and ZBB.. on the approach end of 25.. / departure end of 07.

There is plans to potentially increase the capacity of the Vancouver Landfill with the closure of cache creek... Things weren't as bad in terms of birds when they were using the far east lift..that is now filled.

From what I understand.. they will be expanding the new lifts/ cells west.. towards 12/07.. when the present lift is filled to capacity..

[felix0315]

Let me guess.. the near miss (seagulls) was either in mid-morning or in the evening?

i think it was sometime around 1 or 2pm. I was approaching the gas stations to join left downwind RW12.


And here we have something the flight schools dont teach. I think they should include this subject in textbooks as well (i dont recall seeing it in the FTGU). Awesome replies though!

[Invertago]

I've found the birds of prey are smarter and tend to be more aware of aircraft and avoid them where as the big dumb geese scatter in panic, then reform as a flock right as you are about to hit them. Grazing birds are dumb...

[Shiny Side Up]

I've found the birds of prey are smarter and tend to be more aware of aircraft and avoid them where as the big dumb geese scatter in panic, then reform as a flock right as you are about to hit them. Grazing birds are dumb...

Geese usually don't scatter as they're not as used to being attacked, so usually will continue to fly in formation and are easier to avoid (if you're in a small single that is) - that being said they can fly in fairly large formations to make this difficult. Ducks on the other hand scatter which usually increases the chance of contacting one - though fortunately they're smaller than geese. Hawks though somewhat smarter don't like sharing the sky and occasionally will be agressive towards small aircraft. The big place to watch out for hawks is if they catch something on or near the runway - they won't give it up. Gulls, Ravens and Crows are both the smartest and most manueverable of the birds, and its common for them to play sport with avoiding small aircraft - which fortunately for both, they're fairly good at.

[niss]

Bird strike in Tanzania. Hit a stork and had it lock up the controls. I had a beer that night.

What kind of mess did the baby it was carrying leave?

[speed demon]

CZBB gulls are by far the dumbest bird and one of the biggest hazards (watch for eagles too). Birdscare vehicles could easily "take out" a few just by driving through a flock resting on the runway. (Infact at CYVR today, a Dash-8 ran over a gull on its takeoff roll, closing down their main runway for 8 minutes to clean up).

CZBB tower keeps good watch for birds loafing on runways but pilots should be vigilant at the compost activity at intersecting thresholds 07 & 12 as well as the flocks transiting over airfield to/from landfill.