Advice on buying high performence piston single

[farmerjoe]

Taking a serious look at buying a plane, so many varibles! Would like some advice on the differences on planes. Im +1000hr commercial, but this will likely not be an IFR plane. I know all about general cost and conditions, Im looking for SPECIFIC info on these types

Looking for something 60-70k, 160+knots, 4 Adults, which likely requires a N/A 6 cylinder

-Beech Bonanza/Debonair (older g35/b33 types)
-Piper Commanche 250/260
-Money M20E/F

Now all those go around that price, any Cessna retract is more expensive. Can anyone post some SPECIFIC issues about those particular types, Ive heard countless times that Beech is the most expensive to maintain, To what degree in comparisson? Continental or Lycoming?

[light chop]

From a Mooney owner:

1.) If you haven't already, sit/fly in an example of each one. You sit upright in the Beech/Piper, in the Mooney you sit on the floor with legs stretched out. Mooney's are cozy inside, more difficult to enter/exit than the others.

2.) You'll be hard pressed to get 160+ knots out of an E/F model, even with the 201 mods done to it. More like 145. A good J model flat out will do 160 at 25 squared between 7500 and 9500 feet, at about 11.5 gph 100 ROP.

3.) Watch for fuel tank leaks in all the Mooneys, if the rubber shock disks are old and worn out and the thing has been pounded on lots of times it can promote leaks. You'll see the stains under the wings or smell avgas in the cockpit. Tank re-seal can be around 8-10K if done properly. Only a few shops in North America specialize in this and can do this job well.

4.) Beech is probably most expensive to maintain, then Mooney, then Piper. Mooney part supply is good, Not all AME's like working on Mooneys though (things are packed pretty tight under the cowling/in the cockpit). From experience PLEASE talk to other owners in your area to find out who does good work on what types of aircraft etc. You'll need meticulous maintenance on any of these birds, obviously a lot more mechanical stuff than a 172.

5.) The Lycomings in the Mooney's are pretty much bullet proof.

6.) Get a good pre-buy from an experienced Mooney AME - I know a good shop out in Ontario if you're out that way.

Any other specific questions feel free to PM.

LC

[oldncold]

a cessna 210 can be a good machine a good 1970's non turbo >provided you don't need the short field and hot capability, less $ on engine maintance

if you are operating out of your own grass strip then I wouldn't recommend the retract cessna's due to the gear. however your local airport with a paved runway presto great airplane

then due a through search have your ame due a through inspection/gear / especially for corrosion in the wing root and tail .

the 210 is a solid performer always gets good resale when time to sell ,if it has been maintained well. 15-16gal hr good payload and the speed you want the view outside is good too. hope it all works out.

[skymarc]

An older Bonanza is a great aircraft. I would get the IO-470 as the min engine.
get lots of info at www.beechtalk.com

[Big Pistons Forever]

If I was looking for a 4 place travelling machine I would buy a Cessna 182. It has a comfy cabin, carries anything you can physically stuff in, and is simple, reliable and easy to maintain. The 15 to 20 knots you give up will represents less than 15 minutes of extra flight time on a typical flight. For that little extra time you wil save thousands of dollars every year in decreased insurance and maintainance costs. If you have to have retract then a 1972 or later C 210 is my recommend. The prices have dropped dramatically in the last year. I do not recommend the Bonanza or Commanche. They are both nice airplanes but parts costs (Beechcraft) and availability (Commanche) means you are rolling the dice buying one of those.

[_dwj_]

If I was looking for a 4 place travelling machine I would buy a Cessna 182. It has a comfy cabin, carries anything you can physically stuff in, and is simple, reliable and easy to maintain. The 15 to 20 knots you give up will represents less than 15 minutes of extra flight time on a typical flight. For that little extra time you wil save thousands of dollars every year in decreased insurance and maintainance costs. If you have to have retract then a 1972 or later C 210 is my recommend. The prices have dropped dramatically in the last year. I do not recommend the Bonanza or Commanche. They are both nice airplanes but parts costs (Beechcraft) and availability (Commanche) means you are rolling the dice buying one of those.

What about a turbocharged 182? If you climb up to the flight levels you go as fast as a Bonanza, but maintenance costs should be lower.

[Jastapilot]

I will be so bold as to recommend that if you are planning to buy a high performance 'anything' and planning to use that long range that the plane probably has, then I STRONGLY recommend you get an IFR rating. I personally know a guy who sold his C210 because it had so much range that it got him into trouble time and time again because of a VFR only licence. Remember you will most likely fly through a minimum of 1 weather system in an airplane like that, and sometimes even 2. He scared himself and his family enough times because of his lack of instrument time that he gave it up, and now flies in the back of a Westjet plane whenever he can.

Having said all that, if you're hellbent on one, I recommend avoiding any turbocharged piston Cessna, as I have come to the opinion the engines are made of glass. Brittle glass. Piper would be my choice, based solely on my own experiences.

[xsbank]

My advice would be that old chestnut that its better to rent if it flies floats or, well, you know.

[AEROBAT]

Bonanza's are roomy, relaxing to fly but expensive. I much prefer Mooney's but they are a little crowded for 4 adults. The 182, like BPF, said is probably a lot more practicle plane allthough less sexy. Your insurance isn't that big a deal unless you get hull insurance.

[crazy_aviator]

Take a serious look at the C-182 models , performance, ease of handling, and cheap maintenance as well as less concerns at resale make it an all around fine plane !!!

[Caracrane]

Definitly a Debonnair

[looproll]

I want one of these to bomb around in: http://viper-aircraft.com/home_f.html

[JL]

I would suggest non-turbo and fixed gear. Would save you serious dollars in both maintenance and insurance. Turbo only good if you go high and given Canadian weather (icing levels always low) and the nuisance of oxygen why bother with it.

If you have the bucks, see what an older SR20 or first generation SR22 would go for. I have been told that the market is quite soft for those aircraft. Big cabin too. If they are out of your budget range, I would agree that the fixed gear 182 would be a good bet. Check out http://www.aviationconsumer.comfor non-biased reviews on used aircraft.

[Old Dog Flying]

Joe: I would look at a Piper 236 Dakota, 1979 model or later. Excellent performer on 235 hp, C/S prop, and a useful load of just under 1400#. Cruise at 25/25 is about 145 knots and very comfortable. It is a Big Cherokee but with the big wing and tail, it really is a great buy.

Barney

[Hawkeye4077]

You could get a very nice PA-32 with a nice cargo door in that price range. They are nice, roomy, IFR capable ( not sure about ice) and altho they are not the fastest out there you can get a pretty good range on the newer models I think. Get a copy of Feb. Flying mag for a nice article on them.


Hawk