Shortest Time to Solo

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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

To answer the question

Shortest time to solo 4.3. This young man had approximetely 1000 unofficial hours in a Supercub(wheels/floats), C185 (wheels/wheel-ski/floats) C206 (wheels), and Beaver (floats) time . I could have solo'd him in about 1.5hrs but I figured TC would freak out when they saw the PTR

Longest time 29 hrs. I inherited a older woman who had had three previous instructors, two of which were very inexperienced and the third who was universally considered a moron. She had severe confidence issues and had gotten use to having the instructor take over on landing as soon as the approach got even a little bit wobbly. I finally ended up sitting on my hands to make her think I could not save her to force her to fly the airplane. After she convinced herself she in fact could control the aircraft no matter what happened, I sent her solo.

The only measurement ( I won't say metric...I would not want to offend Strega's tender sensabilities :roll: ) that matters in flight instruction is the answer to the question "did you increase your skills and knowledge during this lesson". There will be the inevitable ups and downs during the course of flight training, but in general there should be a steady upward progression. The flight training horror stories of 40 hrs to solo and 120 hr PPL's, are invariably a story of many lessons but no progress. Many factors could cause this. This is usually due to lack of oversight by the FTU, and especially the CFI. But a 100 hr PPL is not always an FTU/instructor problem. For example excessive training may be due to a student who fly irregularly and doesn't do any homework. If he/she is sat down and the steps required to improve the training progress are clearly explained, as soon as it is obvious he/she is falling behind, then the CFI and the instructor have done their job.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by Cat Driver »

I inherited a older woman who had had three previous instructors, two of which were very inexperienced and the third who was universally considered a moron.
How did he/she get and keep an instructors rating if he/she was universally considered a moron?

Or is moron the minimum intelligence allowed to be a flight instructor in Canada?
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Cat Driver wrote:
I inherited a older woman who had had three previous instructors, two of which were very inexperienced and the third who was universally considered a moron.
How did he/she get and keep an instructors rating if he/she was universally considered a moron?

Or is moron the minimum intelligence allowed to be a flight instructor in Canada?
BF of Thames river fame was a Canso pilot....and universally considered a moron. That does not make me consider that every Canso pilot is a moron......
Every segment of aviation has its share of poor exemplars of the piloting profession. IMO flight instructing has no more and no less than any other kinds of flying
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Cat Driver
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by Cat Driver »

Obviously your resentment of anything I say skews your thought process and you end up making childish remarks like above BPF.

So let me put the question another way.

If flight training in Canada is supposed to be to a high level quality wise how do instructors as inept as the one you described not only get the rating but are allowed to keep on instructing?

By the way only Canadians call the PBY a Canso.
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Tango01
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

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Cat Driver wrote:If flight training in Canada is supposed to be to a high level quality wise how do instructors as inept as the one you described not only get the rating but are allowed to keep on instructing?
Training here is not high level Cat. Anyone with a CPL can get an Instructor's Rating.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Cat Driver wrote:Obviously your resentment of anything I say skews your thought process and you end up making childish remarks like above BPF.

So let me put the question another way.

If flight training in Canada is supposed to be to a high level quality wise how do instructors as inept as the one you described not only get the rating but are allowed to keep on instructing?

By the way only Canadians call the PBY a Canso.
For the same reason inept pilots, exist in every other segment of the industry, they suck up to the boss, or talk a good line, or deflect blame on their co workers, or are just lucky. My only bone to pick with you is your constant and tiresome assertion that everyone who holds a flight instructor rating is incompetant

And re the comment about Canso's ......Sorry about that .....PBY Driver
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patter
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by patter »

5. I could have sent him solo sooner, but there is such a thing as a curriculum and I made him complete it.
70. An older and wealthy man. That's as far as he could go.
Lots of 9's and 10's over the years. Less now with complicated airspace. People who solo at less than 10 are more likely to have an awkward encounter with radiocommunication.
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Shiny Side Up
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by Shiny Side Up »

5. I could have sent him solo sooner, but there is such a thing as a curriculum and I made him complete it.
This brings up a point I always wonder about when it comes to people going solo fast. For those who claim such short times I'd be interested in flight by flight, hour by hour how the student did and the excersises covered. Personally though I've came close, I'd be hard pressed getting everything in there in less than 9 hours even should I have ideal conditions for the student to go solo. Even looking at the upper air excersises and the circuit lessons alone we're looking pressed for time. I should say as well that I have fairly ideal conditions of a quiet airport and a close practice area to work within. With that in mind students usually solo in the 12 to 15 hour range which falls well within a reasonable time reference for completing a licence.

So how did you guys do it?

To answer another question:
How did he/she get and keep an instructors rating if he/she was universally considered a moron?

Or is moron the minimum intelligence allowed to be a flight instructor in Canada?
To be blunt, there is no minimum intelligence requirement. There exists the possibility that someone may indeed defeat the system by pure luck. Just like a million monkeys on a million typewriters will eventually produce all of Shakespere's works. There is the possibility that an idiot through sheer preserverence (which will increase the time the idiot will spend making the attempt - remember the monkeys eventually manifest the work - but will also increase the probability of the idiot succeeding). It doesn't help that the testing and prerequisites are somewhat inadequate - much like if you accepted the monkey's work if you were content that they just got most of Hamlet produced.

What this means is that the quality control for flight instructing out there falls largely in the laps of the Chief Flight Instructors out there - which keep in mind are 1) produced by the same testing system as above, 2) Chosen largely by their abilities as managers, not necessarily as fliers or instructors, and 3) is one of the least sought after posts in aviation being that the rise in responsibility is usually considerably greater than the rise in pay as well as usually meaning a reduction in the much sought after flying hours.

Long story short, the "morons" are being oversaw by largely pilots who don't especially want to be overseers. The so-called policing that TC does of the matter is largely tossed in their laps.
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Strega
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by Strega »

I went solo in 9 hours, partly because we didn't fly 12 min crcuits like everyone does today
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by Giveitago »

For Me.....7.(something) I don't exactly remember.

But..I had a great instructor..a fellow with a SHITE...load of hours flying everything from Beech 18's to hueys to the CF-101 and others. A substantial portion of this was with a flight training unit in the CAF.

The reason that I did reasonably well was that he was not afraid to let me screw up in the initial training, didn't come rushing in to save me from myself and stupid mistakes. He let me make them AND fix them. Steep learning curve...the best kind..for me anyways.

That mixed with my ability to walk and chew gum (basic co-ordination) made for a quick solo. But really, it all came down to the instructors ability I believe. And even though this may stir a hornets nest, I really don't understand why we take the lowest time pilots we can find with the least amount of operational experience and we ask them to teach the next batch of pilots.

Give.


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I have never been an instructor so my head may be firmly planted up my kiester with the last part of the monologue.
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by modi13 »

Giveitago wrote:For Me.....7.(something) I don't exactly remember.

But..I had a great instructor..a fellow with a SHITE...load of hours flying everything from Beech 18's to hueys to the CF-101 and others. A substantial portion of this was with a flight training unit in the CAF.

The reason that I did reasonably well was that he was not afraid to let me screw up in the initial training, didn't come rushing in to save me from myself and stupid mistakes. He let me make them AND fix them. Steep learning curve...the best kind..for me anyways.

That mixed with my ability to walk and chew gum (basic co-ordination) made for a quick solo. But really, it all came down to the instructors ability I believe. And even though this may stir a hornets nest, I really don't understand why we take the lowest time pilots we can find with the least amount of operational experience and we ask them to teach the next batch of pilots.

Give.


Caveat..
I have never been an instructor so my head may be firmly planted up my kiester with the last part of the monologue.
There's nothing more conducive to learning how to fly properly than having a teacher with an extensive amount of experience. Only once I began my instructor rating with one of the most expereinced Class Is in the country did I realize just how little I had learned in my PPL and CPL training. I think everything should be required to do 30 hours of flying with a Class I at some point during their training. At the very least, you know that the instructor isn't just there for the hours; if they've gone that far, they're probably a career instructor, and want to dedicate the time and effort to properly train their students.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Strega wrote:I went solo in 9 hours, partly because we didn't fly 12 min crcuits like everyone does today
It is pretty hard to fly tight circuits if you are No. 5 to land.....

Yes learning to fly at a busy airport will usually mean it will take longer to get your PPL but you will be a much better pilot. IMO if there is one factor that is contributing to examples of execesive times to solo, it is the fairly common tendancy for instructors to rush students into the circuit. Ex 5 to 9 provide the foundation skills on which everything else in piloting an airplane is based on. My experience has been a bit of extra time perfecting the basics pays big dividends later. When I was a senior full time instructor at a busy school I was given several students who could not land. In every case their primary instructor had started the circuit lessons too early and so I went back to the practice area and reviewed the basics, invariably finding weak skills in the foundation manoevers.

i have personally seen very little correlation between time to solo and competance at the CPL and IFR/Instructor level. The solo is all about the hands and feet skills, which is about 10 % of what makes a good pilot and therefore time to solo is ultimately irrelavent.
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

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iflyforpie
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by iflyforpie »

Well, maybe good hands and feet are more than 10% of what makes a good pilot, but they are far from 100%. The pilot with the best hands and feet in the world can still wind up flying in bad weather, have systems failures, run out of fuel, or break regulations.

I wonder if the pilot of that 747 needed to land on such a narrow runway? Surely there were better options within the range of the aircraft. I could see #2 and #3 getting FOD'd out pretty easily... Too much stick and rudder and not enough PDM?? :?

The solo is a confidence booster and a stepping stone into the wider world of flying. The student who soloed at 5 hours because they were born in a 180 flying along with dad may have good hands and feet, but how much other knowledge have they absorbed other than doing what dad told them to do?

There is a reason why the solo is early in the curriculum...
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

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hz2p
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by hz2p »

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iflyforpie
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by iflyforpie »

hz2p wrote: So that decade of aviation that they spent with their father didn't teach them anything about navigation, weather or airmanship...
Oh, so there is more to flying than just stick and rudder! (Which I never said wasn't required BTW...)
according to your socialist mantra?
Hedley... is that you?
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

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Hedley=hz2p?
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Re: Shortest Time to Solo

Post by patter »

There was a time in this country when the PPL could be achieved at 35 hours. I taught lots of those too. And it was done on the taildragger.
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