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phillyfan
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:01 am 
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Looking for somebody to fly DHC-2 Beaver(floats) and Cessna 206(amphibs) in Cairns, Australia. I need somebody who has not reached there 31st birthday so they can get a Working Travel Visa, they must also have an Australian Licence already. I need somebody who can be online for Feb 10. At this time I can't afford to sponser anybody or wait for somebody to convert ther licence due to the time restrictions.

I figure it's a shot in the dark, but if anyone fits the description and would be interested in spending some time in the Tropics this winter send me a resume.


operationsmanager@cairnsseaplanes.com


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North Shore
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:08 am 
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Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
No-one in Oz to fit the bill? Or just no-one with float experience?


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phillyfan
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:18 am 
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Not many float guys here. It's not like Canada where anybody with a commercial and 50 hours float can do an endorsement for somebody. We had a couple guys lined up but one took a job on a Dash-8 and the other just could'nt be trained to our standard quick enough. We do numerous short trips, all out to open water on the Great Barrier Reef. So swell, tides, winds and coral which may have been 12 feet under the water yesterday, might be just a few inchs below today. It all adds up to make it a fairly challenging environment. Common sense is the most important prerequisite.


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medi-whacked
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:10 am 
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phillyfan wrote:
Common sense is the most important prerequisite.


Good luck finding that in someone under 31 years old. Most of the young guys are pre-programmed robots that need someone to think for them.

Times are " a changing" !!


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AMM
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:16 am 
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medi-whacked wrote:
Times are " a changing" !!

No they are not! Old people have always talked down younger generations. Its a way for them to deal with the ever-growing shortcomings of age.

Same old! :wink:


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Cat Driver
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:32 am 
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What do you mean by shortcomings of age?

Do you mean that the younger people still have not had time to mature therefore are less able to make well thought out decisions due to lack of experience compared to older people?


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lk978
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:57 am 
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There is plenty of pilots in Aus wanting to do this but it is just an operator not wanting to train someone.

They also need you under 31 for a working holiday Visa.

I have time on beavers, 208's and 206's just not on floats, Aus and Canadian ATPL with over 2000TT. Can I have the job, scared I might crash the boat?


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Lost Lake
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:00 am 
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Quote:
What do you mean by shortcomings of age?

Do you mean that the younger people still have not had time to mature therefore are less able to make well thought out decisions due to lack of experience compared to older people?



Easy Cat Driver. I'm in my late 50's and I can still make bad decisions! :smt040


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Lost Lake
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:06 am 
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I have time on beavers, 208's and 206's just not on floats, Aus and Canadian ATPL with over 2000TT. Can I have the job, scared I might crash the boat?


Sure they're scared you'll crash the boat. Don't think for a second that you can fly safely in that float environment without a reasonable amount of float experience.


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lk978
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:15 am 
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This is my biggest problem with float guys... I do not by any means think that I would be safe without training

but what is the problem with training someone up?

Some people fly a thousand hours and some people fly their first hour a thousand time

could it be the same with floats?


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Cat Driver
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:48 am 
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The simple answer is flying floats in an environment like that is not simple and requires a lot of float flying experience to be safe.


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lk978
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:10 am 
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So are....

Tail draggers

Single pilot jets

Aerobatics

Fire bombing

....Can anyone see my point? I am willing to learn just need the chance


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Cat Driver
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Well for a start you will need to learn in a less challenging environment than the one in that add for a float plane pilot.


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xsbank
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:22 pm 
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50 hours flying freight and empty legs with a senior guy if in the ocean, then 2-300 hours min. in 'safe' conditions like Saskatchewan, then maybe you're ready to try the open ocean, maybe. That works out to at least 2 years in Canada, if you can find someone willing to train you on the coast, not in the right seat of a TO, which is NOT likely. You should not have any trouble with the prairie/northern Ontario part.

I know this sounds harsh and there are many who think I'm just an old fart but I've seen it - just think of that crash at Lyall Harbour a month or two ago.

He's correct to ask for open water experience. The 31-part is going to be harder.


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phillyfan
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:18 am 
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The reason I am looking in Canada is because that is where the best float pilots in the world come from. I need a person fast because we are coming up to the Chinese New Year on Feb 11th.
I resent the insinuation that we are "just an operator not wanting to train someone". I have hired and trained a shitload of new pilots in my float flying career.
The real fact of the matter is that I don't have the time over the next few months to nurse somebody into this position. We currently own 2 Beavers and are forced to lease a C-206 because the Beavers are too busy. I'm also in the process of trying to get a Turbo Otter over here ASAP.
I'm sorry if we are not meeting all of you flight training needs, but that's not the business we are in. We are a charter air service.


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Idriveplane
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:40 am 
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Whats involved with an Aus cpl conversion?


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Giveitago
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:42 am 
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phillyfan wrote:
I'm sorry if we are not meeting all of you flight training needs, but that's not the business we are in. We are a charter air service.


Bang on!


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Cat Driver
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:57 am 
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:smt040 :smt040 :smt040

The way it worked in the past was pilots were given a flight test on the equipment that they were applying for.

If they could not fly it to your standards they were sent back home for more training.


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Cougar
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:36 am 
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Cat Driver wrote:

....pilots were given a flight test..

If they could not fly it to your standards they were sent back home for more training.



That makes so much sense... it seems we make things so complicated sometimes.

I wish I had the experience to go for this job.

Come to think of it, I wish I was under 31 again, too.

:D


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Oldfartus
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:56 am 
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What are the wages and conditions? Is the reason you only want under thirties because they will work for nothing or even pay for some expirence? If you have had so many pilots through your organisation surely that must tell you something, why won't they stay? Money not enough to live on? Cost of living on the Queensland coast is VERY expensive, most of the low wages recieved will go to paying rent and eating noodles.
This is crap, we have the pilots in this country.


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ragbagflyer
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:34 am 
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Oldfartus wrote:
What are the wages and conditions? Is the reason you only want under thirties because they will work for nothing or even pay for some expirence? If you have had so many pilots through your organisation surely that must tell you something, why won't they stay? Money not enough to live on? Cost of living on the Queensland coast is VERY expensive, most of the low wages recieved will go to paying rent and eating noodles.
This is crap, we have the pilots in this country.


You sure jump to conclusions! Perhaps it's easier to get a work permit if you're under 31. Also, where did Philly say he had a lot of pilots pass through this organization? All he said was he's trained a lot of pilots in his time. Chill out!


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Oldfartus
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:10 am 
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ragbagflyer wrote:
You sure jump to conclusions! Perhaps it's easier to get a work permit if you're under 31. Also, where did Philly say he had a lot of pilots pass through this organization? All he said was he's trained a lot of pilots in his time. Chill out!

How many of your good, well set up operators go into the season still looking for quailified staff less than a month from the busy time? Why do you think they can't find pilots in this country with some float operators (Not as many as your country but quite a few) here with a fair turn over? They can't seem to get people to stay in the game because of wages and conditions is why. Did the "Oh you Canadians are the best pilots in the world" comment swell your head just a little bit?
Any oganisation who pays well and looks after the crew has no trouble retaining pilots, same in your country? I don't need to chill out, apart from a couple of days this summer has been quite cool. :mrgreen:


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phillyfan
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:55 am 
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Nobody here right now is hurting for money. Pay is above industry standard. If you know of any Australian pilots who want to work for us, tell them to send a resume or drop by the office.
The 31 year old restriction is simply because a Working Travel Visa can be obtained in 24hours. Other visas could take months or even years.
A conversion involves a flight test, medical and an Air Law written. They do have a "Certificate of Validation" which allows somebody to fly on there ICAO licence and medical for up to 6 months. The shitty part is that it takes a month to get.
We have plenty of Australian helicopter pilots flying in Canada so I have no moral hangup about using a few Canadians to fly floats over here.


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hugh_jorgan
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:29 am 
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Why not advertise on the Aussie AFAP website...its free and you will no doubt get some interest from Australian float pilots who already have a licence and float time. I know of a few beaver drivers in country with rough water experience.

Conditions in the area can be challenging if landing out at the reef or islands. The majority of the work they do is takeoff from the inlet and land back in the inlet...especially for the chinese new year work. They could have easily had a person trained up by now as the last pilot to leave left the company at the start of Dec. Why leave it till now to try and find someone? The company bus driver has been there well over 12 months and is still waiting for his opportunity to get in the air. (5 pilots have started with the company in the time he has been there)

To give you an idea of how difficult operations in that area can be. Last CP checked a guy with 1000TT and a little over 400 on floats, did about 5-6hrs ICUS with him in the Beaver and sent him out in 30kts for a landing at Green Is. Challenging environment but not impossible. The old CPs motto was this "I wont send anyone solo until they are at a stage where I would be comfortable sending my wife and kids up with them". You do need some experience but as philly said
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Common sense is the most important prerequisite.


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phillyfan
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:00 am 
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Like I said we had a couple guys lined up. One is doing something else, the other did not meet the standard. I really don't care about what happened before I got here.
If you think that this is the full extent of my search efforts, then you are mistaken. I'm just doing what any employer should do. Find the best person for the job. Something they have not always done.


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