An xx Chromosome.

[TaintedGravity]

I'd appreciate input from the xx's and xy's alike.

I'm finishing an undergraduate degree soon. I've received an aviation scholarship to help me complete my PPL. I've worked ramps, drop zones, worked on networking & taken flights with acquaintances on various aircraft. My question is... now what? I wasn't satisfied with my PPL training - the practical was okay, the ground school portion was... well it was terrible. It was extremely frustrating and I relied on people with their CPLs to help me get through it. My options as far as training are concerned are extremely limited in my area. Is this the case nationally? Are there a lot of private schools with diminishing standards?

I did some research, came across Confederation College - I'm thinking of picking up my stuff and heading out there. At least I know ground training will be adequate (I hope...). Currently I'm taking electives like Atmospheric Sciences and Meteorology in university to get a better foundation for my CPL. The Flight Management program at Confederation is 2.5 years I believe. Is this honestly my only option for getting better ground training? I'd like to be a competent pilot and don't want to scrape by on the bare minimums. Has anyone attended this college? Any thoughts, opinions or concerns? Is this 2.5 year process even necessary, am I missing something?

How are the females doing at the local airlines? Are any on a Navajo or single crew aircraft?

ANY feedback will be much appreciated.

[sissyphus]

Let me first say, you sound almost too smart to be a pilot. Taking university courses in meteorology puts you ahead of probably 90% of all pilots in terms of academics. You will also find that the 235 hr wonder teaching the ground is a little more than a PPL pilot himself/herself. To compare any flight school to a university level course, you're going to be sadly disappointed. You may have to alter your expectation of the class. Luckily enough, the academic learning of flying has always been a self taught art.

"if you teach someone something, they'll never learn"

On a more positive note. Confed has a great program for many years, and has produced many good pilots. The diploma programs are not mandatory, be it sault, mfc or seneca, to make it to an airline. They help, but they also don't guarantee an airline job, or even preference over another job candidate. If academia suits the candidate it can be a very rewarding venture. If not, it can be an expensive waste of time.

Being a woman in aviation is a double edged sword. You may get hired faster than a man, but you may have to deal with other peoples resentment. You will probably have to work twice as hard for half the credit. If you're a woman and the child of an airline pilot, double the last statement

You seem to be doing well and asking important/relevant questions. I'm sure you'll do well. Keep at it. There is going to be a lot of obstacles in your way, but approach each one as a problem to be solved. Keep positive and have fun.

Hope this helps

Cheers

S

[North Shore]

Finish off the degree, use it to get a job, and fund your CPL out of the proceeds. You seem smart enough to do more than the minimum asked of you in the CPL course, and your degree will put you miles ahead of the dinky little aviation business management diploma that you'll get at a college somewhere. And if/when a downturn strikes, and you get laid off, then you'll have a better chance of getting a job to tide you over...
Can't speak to the female thing...

[AMM]

Chromosomes eh?

How are the females doing at the local airlines? Are any on a Navajo or single crew aircraft?

This industry is a shriveled old sausage fest. You'll be alright!
At the very least, the 'old school' will be less threatened by your academic ambitions then they would if you were XY....sigh.
For all of you employers that feel outraged and a need to deny this, realize that this double standard happens (for the most part) at a subconscious level.

Good luck.

[paydaymayday]

Female pilots, on average, move up much faster in today's pilot industry. Part of it is a need for the airlines to "meet quotas" and appear politically correct and non discriminatory - so they tend to overcompensate.

Note I am not saying that female pilots are any worse or any better than male pilots; this is not true.

I'm just saying you have a leg up on the competition - use it to your advantage. I would if I was in your position.

[AEROBAT]

Tainted Gravity,

If you found the PPL ground school difficult you will need your Met course to do your IFR. The PPL requires about a grade 8 education. It really is not overwhelming. The CPL is actually easier. If you want to fly for a living spend your money flying not sitting in a class room. I know an very senior pilot with Air Canada who doesn't even have grade 12.

Like North Shore said, continue with your academic career and have a job to fall back on.

[Cougar]

Well, wouldn't you know. Missed the fun boat again.



This is all the opposite of what I think, but hey, maybe in the NEXT 100 years, I'll see this "advantage".

The airlines sure must be a different world, then.

[AEROBAT]

One of the best pilots in the US, president of the IAC, was a woman. Being female is NOT a disadvantage. She was afraid of doing spins so took an aerobatics course and went on to becoming the president of the IAC. I voted for her during the last election. Regretably she died fly a borrowed plane during the last world competition in Scotland.

[Cougar]

Hey I agree -- know plenty of awesome women pilots.

Just saying I have never seen this "advantage" and if it IS out there, well, then good for whomever runs into it, I guess.

[AEROBAT]

Where are you flying Cougar?

[Cougar]

western US

[AEROBAT]

Anywhere around Anguin or Napa CA by chance, my daughter lives there.

[TaintedGravity]

Tainted Gravity,

If you found the PPL ground school difficult you will need your Met course to do your IFR. The PPL requires about a grade 8 education. It really is not overwhelming. The CPL is actually easier. If you want to fly for a living spend your money flying not sitting in a class room. I know an very senior pilot with Air Canada who doesn't even have grade 12.

Like North Shore said, continue with your academic career and have a job to fall back on.

PPL ground school material wasn't really my issue. It was trying to apply the concepts I learned to the practical part of flying and not getting responses from the instructors (which also changed multiple times) that answered my questions. Then the discrepancy between the practice written exam and actual TC written exam was a little much. I aced my practice, but got below what I wanted for my final written PPL exam. I don't really want a repeat experience with my CPL. I would like to know what is expected from me before writing the final exam without any false pretenses of how prepared I am. I find a little comfort when you say the CPL is easier.

[TaintedGravity]

Female pilots, on average, move up much faster in today's pilot industry. Part of it is a need for the airlines to "meet quotas" and appear politically correct and non discriminatory - so they tend to overcompensate.

Note I am not saying that female pilots are any worse or any better than male pilots; this is not true.

I'm just saying you have a leg up on the competition - use it to your advantage. I would if I was in your position.

I've heard both sides as well - advantageous and disadvantageous. I guess the only way I'll really find out is by taking the plunge. To be honest, I'm hoping for an equal playing field.

[TaintedGravity]

Finish off the degree, use it to get a job, and fund your CPL out of the proceeds. You seem smart enough to do more than the minimum asked of you in the CPL course, and your degree will put you miles ahead of the dinky little aviation business management diploma that you'll get at a college somewhere. And if/when a downturn strikes, and you get laid off, then you'll have a better chance of getting a job to tide you over...
Can't speak to the female thing...

The other job I'm looking at is in the law enforcement field. My degree will be in criminal law which is part of my problem, I'm at a fork in the road. Both roads are long and expensive ones, and I know my heart is in aviation. I'd like to fly for the airlines, so I don't want to put another 7 years into law school or law enforcement and miss out on a career with the airlines. I'm 21 and I don't want to get too old!

[TaintedGravity]

Let me first say, you sound almost too smart to be a pilot. Taking university courses in meteorology puts you ahead of probably 90% of all pilots in terms of academics. You will also find that the 235 hr wonder teaching the ground is a little more than a PPL pilot himself/herself. To compare any flight school to a university level course, you're going to be sadly disappointed. You may have to alter your expectation of the class. Luckily enough, the academic learning of flying has always been a self taught art.

"if you teach someone something, they'll never learn"

On a more positive note. Confed has a great program for many years, and has produced many good pilots. The diploma programs are not mandatory, be it sault, mfc or seneca, to make it to an airline. They help, but they also don't guarantee an airline job, or even preference over another job candidate. If academia suits the candidate it can be a very rewarding venture. If not, it can be an expensive waste of time.

Being a woman in aviation is a double edged sword. You may get hired faster than a man, but you may have to deal with other peoples resentment. You will probably have to work twice as hard for half the credit. If you're a woman and the child of an airline pilot, double the last statement

You seem to be doing well and asking important/relevant questions. I'm sure you'll do well. Keep at it. There is going to be a lot of obstacles in your way, but approach each one as a problem to be solved. Keep positive and have fun.

Hope this helps

Cheers

S

I don't have a problem with academia - I looked at the course program outline for Confed. I think what is appealing to me is the fact that it's a subsidized program. I'm almost tempted to just start over with my PPL! The ground school portion especially. The survival courses also seem invaluable. Am I wrong in thinking that it'll be cheaper to go through this program to receive PPL training, float endorsement, night rating and a CPL? For some reason in my head all of those sum up to a lot more than I'd like it to at the private school I am currently dealing with.

[AEROBAT]

Trust me the CPL is easier! Remember you will have a lot more time actually flying than you did with your private. The question of flight instructors is a loaded one. There are a lot of good ones out there but some guys/gals are using it to build up flight time rather than actually doing meaningfull work for their money. Research the thread about stall recovery on Avcanada. That will open your eyes about our "standard" of training for instructors.

Law enforcement will pay a lot better than flying for sure but I think flying is a lot more fun. If you had a hard time with relating the ground school with the flying maybe the school was a dud? The instructors were duds? It almost seems to me that people try to make aviation a lot more complex than it is. In my opinion it is not so much a knowledge based profession rather an apptitude and skills based avocation. This simple and unavoidable fact pisses off all the pilots who want to deny that flying is a brain-hands-feet type of occupation. You can have all phony degrees you want but eventually the hands and feet have to tell the plane what the hell you want it to do. Witness the clowns who have an autopilot crap out and they pull the wings off their planes.

Money can't buy you skill.

In my opinion aviation colledges are a scam pure and simple. If you want a degree in an aviation related field take up aeronautical engineering or the MET course from an actual university allthough I doubt if it will make a whit of difference when it comes to getting a job.

[Cat Driver]

Here is something to consider.

I have grade eight formal education.... never finished grade nine.

I made it to the top in aviation with that level of schooling.

Does that help you with your worry about how difficult it is to become a pilot?

[TaintedGravity]

Cat Driver... There's a definite degree of reassurance in your story. I know many pilots who don't have degrees or diplomas who are doing quite well!! ... I guess for myself however, I feel a little more comfortable with text book knowledge. Yes I know, I know, text book knowledge often doesn't apply to the real world & practical flying skill in terms of "hands and feet". Maybe it's a personal zeal to analyze the underlying concepts of flight, I'm not sure. I am craving good instruction though! I feel like I can do better. Does that make sense?

[Cat Driver]

Of course it makes sense, we all must go with our inner feelings and instincts.

What works for one may not work for someone else.

I am far, far, from uneducated as I educated myself by using my ability to read and write and by using real life experiences to mold a safe thought pattern that gave me the ability to tell someone to go fu.k them self if they wanted me to do something I knew to be unsafe for my skills range or the weather, mechanical issues at the time.

Flying airplanes is a profession that can be mastered by the average person in society.

Think of it as driving a bus in a three dimension environment.

[AMM]

I am far, far, from uneducated as I educated myself by using my ability to read and write and by using real life experiences to mold a safe thought pattern that gave me the ability to tell someone to go fu.k them self if they wanted me to do something I knew to be unsafe for my skills range or the weather, mechanical issues at the time.

Dang, them some good writing skills for grade 8.

[Cat Driver]

Therefore grade eight gives one the basics for self education, correct?

[AMM]

Why bother with school altogether. Nowadays kids will learn their numbers and letters just by watching TV (before ever setting foot in a classroom). A little more TV and a few hours of help should have them piecing together some basic words. That should be enough to google the rest, correct?

[MichaelP]

Just as an aside.
In China I recommended that the school take on some women as airline cadets.
My reasoning was that the girls would work twice as hard as the boys, (most of the boys were only working half as hard as they should!).
In China the guys would lose face if the gals did a lot better than them, and so the whole standard of student progress would rise if the classes were coed.

[Cougar]

Same reasoning was used when the B-29 rolled out in WWII. Pilots were afraid of it, and did not want to fly it. It was getting a bad rap real quickly, so the military went and got women pilots to fly it to do the demo/initial flights.

None of the guys wanted to be shown up by those women, so they sucked it up, and climbed in.

Some TV documentaries show interviews with the original flight crew; the tactic worked, but FAST.

[The one that comes to mind most quickly was done by PBS in the US. They did an 'American Experience' show about the "Fly Girls" of the WAFS and WASP.]