If you were an employer and had a choice between 9 guys who you have never seen before the interview, or the guy you see hustling on the ramp every day with a good attitude, which one would you put in the flying position ?
When I was an employer who was looking for a pilot I interviewed the applicant then put them in the airplane we needed a pilot for and if the individual met the standard for the flying position we needed to fill I carefully checked his/her background to see if what they claimed fit what I observed.
That method of pilot hiring worked for me right up to 705 level.
Good for you, you hired pilots for pilots job, the way it should be. Unfortunately the majority of todays operators don't work in such a principled way. The current industry reality is start on the dock for float operators and and start on the ramp/dispatch for MEIFR opreations. Hell even flight schools , which used to offer a guaranteed way to get flying as soon as you finished your training, now seem to often want instructors to start as dispatchers
Obviously every new guy/gal should try for a flying position as their first choice and some lucky ones will get a flying position for that elusive first job, but for the majority the choice is a non flying job in a flying operation or a job outside of aviation. My advice (and everything anyone says on an anonymous bulletin board should be appraoched with a healthy dose of scepticism) is get into the industry anyway you can.
mattedfred wrote:perhaps a more detailed selection process is required rather than paying a highly skilled professional to cut their teeth slinging bags?
I highly doubt I could find even just one fresh CPL that anyone could realistically consider a "highly skilled professional." I think you are highly overestimating the maturity, attitude and skill level of the average 200 hour pilot.
Only way to change things is for there to be more jobs or fewer pilots.........neither are gonna happen. Ever.
Well wait a second... remember just a few years ago when guys were getting jobs before they even left flight school... some outfits were so desperate for guys that they would hire and FO with 250TT right seat in a King Air 200 and captains with 1500TT. There are starting to be a few more jobs out there these days hopefully guys don't start jumping ship and show a bit of loyalty where it is due...
Only way to change things is for there to be more jobs or fewer pilots.........neither are gonna happen. Ever.
Well wait a second... remember just a few years ago when guys were getting jobs before they even left flight school... some outfits were so desperate for guys that they would hire and FO with 250TT right seat in a King Air 200 and captains with 1500TT. There are starting to be a few more jobs out there these days hopefully guys don't start jumping ship and show a bit of loyalty where it is due...
At the very best time in the industry there might have been a very few pilots who got on with these kinds of time but they are the 3 % exceptions. The only real pilot shortages that ever existed were for experienced captains. Any wannebe that is baseing his/her plans on the idea that there will be a time when their first job will be on a MEIFR turbine is living in a fantasy world.
BTW today is not as bad as it could be, it was worse in the early 1990's. I got an interview/linecheck for a FO position with a PA31 commuter operation at that time. The low time captain had 3000 hrs the high time over 7000 hrs. I had a SCPL and 1300 hrs but only 200 ME. I was not hired even though I thought I did well on the line check, because another guy had an ATPL, a PPC and 500 MEPIC on the Ho.
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Last edited by Big Pistons Forever on Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm not entirely sure if this has been touched upon yet... But I worked the ramp at a particular company. This company was saturated with hopefuls that slaved for countless months, even up to a couple of years! What I didn't understand was when the company hired outside the company when one of those desired, valuable spots finally opened up!
PS - the rampies and cargo agents alike had (if not more) the hours and met all requirements.
I'm not entirely sure if this has been touched upon yet... But I worked the ramp at a particular company. This company was saturated with hopefuls that slaved for countless months, even up to a couple of years! What I didn't understand was when the company hired outside the company when one of those desired, valuable spots finally opened up!
PS - the rampies and cargo agents alike had (if not more) the hours and met all requirements.
You have identified the real problem with working the ramp. Most operators are IMO pretty good about advancing those rampies that worked hard and had a good attitude. Unfortunately some operators have no ethics or morals, but there is a wealth of information on this and other sites and word of mouth at the airport. It is important to do your research. My advice is it will be pretty obvious how the operation is being run in the first few weeks of your employement on the ramp. At that point you may have some hard decisions to make...welcome to the cold hard reality of Canadian aviation
