ALPA, ACPA and everybody else who's involved in reciprocal..

[CanadianEh]

One word: Globalization. Get used to it.

[keener flier]

Most of you are missing the point. Its not about the jumpseat, these guys are migrant workers, they're going home and taking their pay with them. I'm not interested in where they live, or if its too hard for them to go home. If they don't like it, quit and go home. Then the rest of us "unqualified" Boeing pilots across Canada will finally get a pilot job where we live.

[jjj]

Keener flier,

Have you even read the replies to this thread. The argument of the original poster has been killed - completely.

Pay attention son - you're just embarrassing yourself.


JJJ

[Arctic84]

Inverted, no one's riding WJ's jumpseat other than standby company employees, and only if there's no seat in the back.The 'Reciprocal' jumpseat program only puts a participating airline's pilot in an empty seat in the back.

As well, the former famil program for ATC was instituted in order for controllers to familiarize themselves with the day to day operational environment of the pilots, something tough to do from the cabin.

John

That's exactly why myself and just about every other ATC'er wants it back.

I have been fortunate enough to have a couple of rides in a 37' flight deck, as well as a Dash-8, and all the crews were great to talk to!

However I would say that 99% of ATC with 9 years of service or under has never seen the inside of an operational flight deck.

So there's guys with almost a 1/3 of their career under their belt who outside of a few computer based lessons could tell you anything about how a pilot does his job. It creates a big disconnect between ATC and pilots, I would think jumpseat trips would greatly improve both of our working envrionments, improve efficiency and even safety more than any classroom or computer training could ever teach you.

Someone at TC needs to really sit down and look at this at least for certified "fam" trips at the very least...

Couldn't agree more.

I had a couple of ATC guys in my jumpseat during that program (that was more than 8 years ago in the -200). A good learning opportunity for all, and I had my questions lined up beforehand. My understanding of the air traffic system, and that of the controllers re: our work, was enhanced greatly.

Bring it back.

[Niodatchi]

Keener flyer ,thanks for your support! We will never win the best conditions for all canadian pilots until we stop stabbing each other and start working together! I wish I could do the same as these expats do and fly for Air Berlin, or Lufthansa . Unfortunately, it's not possible!Because most of european contracts require a european passeport and licence! So as long as this is going on, I will not accept any of those "Contract pilots" on our company jumpseat ageement to fly back home to Frankfurt or wherever their home is. This is the power I have in the real world, on the line! It's as simple as that, in order to my fellow brethren, members of the great canadian aviation, from twin-otter drivers, to B777 drivers. We should stick together to make sure our sons and friends have one day a decent job in this country! Stay strong and keep flyin! And JJJ, if you think the argument was killed! I think you haven't been in a real cockpit for a while, cause the ball is rollin baby! Nio

[scopiton]

Nio, Why don't you accept one of these guys on your jumpseat and try to have a little conversation with him over the ocean? you could understand what his position is and why they have been hired instead of canadian pilot, and why those 737 are registered in europe and not in canada ?
that would be more constructive than just spreading a useless protectionist rant here...

[jjj]

Nio and Keener,

I brought one of the German Canjet guys 1800 miles to YYZ today.

I introduced myself to said pilot in the boarding lounge, shook his hand and welcomed him aboard.

He was a nice fella and happy to be working the contract his company sent him on.

For the sake of our reputation in Canada, I'm happy he met me today and not one of you.


Later.

JJJ

[Jastapilot]

a little over 2 years ago, I had the pleasure of 2 ATC trainers in the J/S into YXX, and to their luck they got to witness an ILS to minimums, a missed approach, one of their ATC brethren heckling us in the missed as to our intentions when we were busy Aviating/Navigating/Communicating in that order, followed by a 2nd successful attempt and landing thanks to the cooperation of a small cloud moving aside in time for us to see the runway.

Not sure, but maybe because they were trainers they were allowed in the Jump? You'd have my vote if I could get you ATC types up front more often, as I have my share of questions and I'm sure you have the same!

[jjj]

Nio,

BTW, if you ever require my jumpseat over which I have the power to control - it's all yours brother.

JJJ
Bringin' down the industry.

[Dim]

Thanks Triple J

[flyinhigh]

So Nio,

when you have a jump seater now, are you going to go and ask said pilot what nationality he is now, than say No you can't have the seat. Well done you just brought down all canadian pilots on our professionalism.

Next, those aircraft that Canjet is flying are EU registered. correct me if I am wrong but to fly a EU reg. aircraft do you not have to be EU licenced. That is the way it is with the US, but EU I have no idea.


P.s- what ball, when was a ball introduced to the conversation.

[ajet32]

"NIO"
I HAVE HAD THE PRIVELEDGE to fly with some of these very experienced and knowledgeable contract pilots. I have also flown the EU registered A/C (not sure how that works , no JAA licence in my bag) they are all both very likeable and just happy to be here. If Canjet could have trained enough Canucks in time they wouldn't be here. Don't destroy our professional image with that attitude. there are a lot of Canucks working overseas and many of us will probably go back with the lack of good paying jobs here. They didn't come with a bad attitude why cause problems. We are all in this buisness together are we not?

[Niodatchi]

Thanks JJJ for your humility! I promise to improve mine! Nio

[zombi]

My question to all of you unhappy people about those contract pilots is : what do you from expect a company with a seasonal operation, a company that literally doubles it's fleet thus amount of drivers in the winter and cuts it by half in the summer!!! Do you expect them to hire drivers, type them, and lay them off every summer? or pay them to do nothing for 6 months like it's almost the case with the core pilot group CanJet has?

I'm not taking any management's side but I just don't see a solution. Reciprocal is also not that easy. Those contract pilots come from either Air Berlin or TUI (hapag fly). Hapag doesn't need pilots in the summer. I spoke to an Air Berlin fella and he told me the one of the requirements to work for them is to be fluent in German because it's the language they use for their operation. They do take foreign pilots (such as french spanish etc but they have to be fluent in German.