Night Flying.

[. ._]

I'll bet you'll never do THAT again, eh?

-istp

[FlaplessDork]

Be weary at night in remote area's when all you have is ARCAL and then you have a complete power failure. Know where they keep on the lights the entire night. Monitor your electrical system

Carry extra fuel, and make sure you are on time before they turn out the runway lights. Luckily I had a friend who lived close by who I could call on a cell phone to hit the emergency power for the runway lights while I circled.

Avoid going up if the temp/dewpoint spread is narrow.

[ETOPS]

How do you know it's a lake and not trees at night?

Their reflections. Unless ofcourse its overcast, in which case...
I've only flown VFR night XC in clear sky conditions, and the few times I've flown up north ('remote' areas) there was a decent moon out. If you only care about the 25h, there's no reason why you can't buy your time and pick the best possible conditions.

I remember reading a study on forced landings in a water vs. trees: Although the survival rate was the same for both, the rate of injury was much higher for the tree option. As for the hypothermic aspect, I'm sure one or two hand held flares (on your person) would help get a fire going in no time.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The only reported accident rate that matters is frequency per unit of exposure. In aviation this is usually expressed as number of accidents per 100,000 hours of flying. Expressed this way the last report I saw noted a US non instrument rated PPL flying in a single engine aircraft was approximetely 25 times more likely to have a fatal accident for any given night flight compared to that same flight operated during daylight hours. I personally do not think FTU's in general adequately cover the risk of night flight during night rating training. To fly at night is your choice, but I fear many low time pilots do fully not understand the true risks and effective mitigation strategies and are flying on oblivious to the dangers.

BTW I will no longer will fly a single engine aircraft at night outside of the circuit.

[Cat Driver]

BTW I will no longer will fly a single engine aircraft at night outside of the circuit.

Finally something we both are in agreement on.

[AEROBAT]

When I fly at night I treat it like an IFR flight. As soon as I rotate I go on the instruments and stay on them until I level off. Where I fly there usually isn't SFA to see on the ground and if it is a cloudy night or no moon you really don't have a reference to the ground. There is not a lot of towns ect. around.

Thanks to the closing of all the FSS stations we used to have Met reports are not very good between major airports and Pireps, if available, are best. More than once I have been buzzing along and found out I was entering IMC, or already in it when turning on the landing light. Carry lots of fuel. Plan on doing a 180 and going home. Don't .. run. Remember if things were fine before you punched into the weather they will be fine as you do a 180 and head home. Don't get sucked into dropping down till you "see" the ground.

I doubt if Transport would go after you for inadvertant IMC if they were to find out but if you try .. running at night your wife will have a big funeral bill.

I would like to say get your IFR but if you follow the rules you do not need it but you should be comfortable flying with just reference to instruments alone. I don't fly single engine at night for any meaningfull distance in the mountains.

People will say I am being a bit of a granny but who cares!

[FlaplessDork]

BTW I will no longer will fly a single engine aircraft at night outside of the circuit.

Finally something we both are in agreement on.

+2

After my ATPL there was no need to do anymore night time in a single engine. Some flight training airplanes scare the crap out of me in the daytime let alone the night

[L1011]

Be weary at night in remote area's when all you have is ARCAL and then you have a complete power failure. Know where they keep on the lights the entire night. Monitor your electrical system

Carry extra fuel, and make sure you are on time before they turn out the runway lights. Luckily I had a friend who lived close by who I could call on a cell phone to hit the emergency power for the runway lights while I circled.

Avoid going up if the temp/dewpoint spread is narrow.

Cell phone is great if you can get service. In most cases you should be able to get a hold of SOMEONE who has the ability to turn on the ARCAL in the event of a comm failure. Even calling FSS to relay a call for you.

[GoinNowhereFast]

When I fly at night I treat it like an IFR flight. As soon as I rotate I go on the instruments and stay on them until I level off.

What about other traffic? SEE and be seen. Traffic is a lot easier to see at night, so you can [and should] spend more time looking at instruments. From what I understand by your post, you are spending all your time inside the cockpit and near an airport where other traffic is very likely.

[MikeZ]

I fly regularly at night, in the north, in a single engine. Being a Canadian, a night rating is pretty much a requirement, if your planning to go anywhere in the winter.

Some basic rules are as stated here, don't go if theres a chance of fog, only 1-2 degrees between dew point and temp, or a low ceiling. I also won't go, unless I've flown and familiar with the route in the day. Climb as far as you can, and its amazing how far you can see on a clear night.

I know of pilots whose electrical have failed, and had to make a landing at night, without benefit of lights. Murphy's Laws always prevail. Be prepared. I carry as many spare batteries for flashlights and GPS as my bag will hold.

Night is quiet, little radio chatter, check in frequently with any FSS along the route, or have flight following if available.

Scariest moment I had in all my experieces was Terminal advising me as I was leaving their airspace, that although they had nothing on their radar, civilian radio was advising of a possible tornado in my path ahead. Not exactly something you can see at night, and don't have a storm scope.

I turned around and lived to fly another day.

[Cougar]

Haaa, that reminds me of the night (in the pre-TCAS years) we were climbing out and the departure guy called traffic to us, not too far out, "10 o'clock moving to 12 o'clock, crossing your flight path from left to right".....

We strained to see.. inky black with valley lights... just about to start cussing when he added..

"Traffic, B-52, lights out training..."

Well...... you can eat your damned carrots for your night vision, but I can tell you, you're not gonna see somebody running lights out....

It was pretty funny, after he called and said "Traffic no factor...."... wasn't that funny 'til then, though... those guys screwed with us all the time though....

[5x5]

Climb as far as you can, and its amazing how far you can see on a clear night.

Assuming you mean as high as possible, I have to disagree. It's important to remember human factors and the deterioration of your night vision at higher altitudes. Anything above 5.000' AGL and it really starts getting worse. Even more so if you're a smoker, older or out of shape. So by climbing higher you will actually impair your vision, not help it.
I'm no FAR expert, but I believe in the US the FAA recommends auxiliary oxygen for night flight above 5.000 while here in Canada it's only a caution. Once again, be very cautious in night VFR and be sure you KNOW what is a good idea and don't do things simply because they SEEM to be a good idea.

Here's a quote from an article on vision at night - worth reading if you intend to fly at night.

HYPOXIA

The effect of altitudinal hypoxia on night vision is primarily one of an elevation of the rod and cone threshold. Although decreased cone function is clearly demonstrated by the loss of color vision at hypoxic altitudes, the decrement in central VA is usually insignificant. However, scotopic night vision at altitude can be significantly reduced. Scotopic vision has been reported to decrease by 5% at 3,500 feet, 20% at 10,000 feet, and 35% at 13,000 feet, if supplemental oxygen is not provided. Thus, the use of oxygen, even at low pressure altitudes, can be very important at night.

Here's a link to the full article - http://www.aoa.org/x5352.xml

[Cat Driver]

A few questions on single engine night flying.

Why are you not allowed to carry passengers on commercial charter flights in a single at night?

Why do you find so many high time pilots who do not fly single engine airplanes at night?

Why is it illegal to fly passengers in singles at night but it is legal to fly students at night in singles?

[ETOPS]

Anything above 5.000' AGL and it really starts getting worse.

Why is it AGL and not ASL?

[MikeZ]

My advice to climb higher, to see farther, is based solely on experience. I won't dispute the science of what 5X5 says, but the practical reality is that you gain situational awareness higher.

At 4500' ASL at CYQU, you can barely make out Valleyview on a clear night. At 7500', you can see the far off distant glow of Edmonton. I did not intend to imply that you should be flying at heights that require oxygen. Reduce the risk flying at night, not add a complication.

If I'm situationally aware of where I am, that in conjunction with instrument information, lessens the risk. I'll also know, by comparison to flights past, that if I'm at an altitude where i SHOULD be able to see something of particular note, and I can't, theres a high probability of some weather obstruction between myself and the destination.

[GoinNowhereFast]

Anything above 5.000' AGL and it really starts getting worse.

Why is it AGL and not ASL?

5000asl in some parts of Canada will put you in granitis rockis type clouds, or at least very cose to the ground.

Why are you not allowed to carry passengers on commercial charter flights in a single at night?

If you have an engine failure, you have a lot fewer options, if any

Why do you find so many high time pilots who do not fly single engine airplanes at night?

They prefer bring along a spare engine, same debate as single engine IFR.

Why is it illegal to fly passengers in singles at night but it is legal to fly students at night in singles?

Economics, and it's assumed that the student has accepted the risk where a paying passenger may not be aware.

[5x5]

Ooops - it should be 5,000 ASL. When flying in areas where the ground level is already high, it's even easier to get into higher altitudes for flight and hence more issues.

Cat - I agree that it is a very odd anomaly that CARS won't allow commercial single engine at night, yet they require the least experienced of all pilots to do it for 25 hours XC to get their ATPL. Extremely odd and I personally see no benefit in a pilot's development from this requirement.

I had heard that a couple of years ago there was discussion within TC to prohibit single engine, night VFR but it didn't go anywhere. Maybe it was just a rumour, but I think it would be a good idea. In the meantime, we have to train for it and people need to get the hours to get the licence.

Let's just all make sure we do it - both the training and the actual flying - with the least amount of risk possible. Pick and choose your nights carefully to get the best conditions - no overcast and bright moon. Pick routes with the fewest ground hazards as in built up, populated areas with lots of roads, open fields and lots of ground lights. Don't make it any more risky than it already is.

[Cat Driver]

Cat - I agree that it is a very odd anomaly that CARS won't allow commercial single engine at night, yet they require the least experienced of all pilots to do it for 25 hours XC to get their ATPL. Extremely odd and I personally see no benefit in a pilot's development from this requirement.

It has been thus ever since I can remember.

Trying to figure out some of the rules TC has in place is far beyond the capability of anyone I have ever known in aviation....hell even if you ask them to explain the rules you will be lucky to get two answers the same.

Here is a question.

Suppose someone gave you a job with excellent pay and excellent side benefits and all you had to do was follow their rules and policies regardless of how weird some of them may seem to you, would you make waves by trying to change things or would you be like everyone else there and show up at whatever address they sent to you to, put in your time for the day and go home and know you will have a good retirement plan to live on when you retire?

[light chop]

Suppose for a minute that engine failure (followed by an off airport forced landing) on a single was not an issue - you've got a magical engine that won't quit.

What other night VFR risks (some have been mentioned) and in what order (highest to lowest risk) are there?

bad weather (flying into IMC conditions)
terrain avoidance
black hole effect
radio / electrical failure (can't turn the runway lights on)
etc.

What else?

[trampbike]

The only reported accident rate that matters is frequency per unit of exposure. In aviation this is usually expressed as number of accidents per 100,000 hours of flying. Expressed this way the last report I saw noted a US non instrument rated PPL flying in a single engine aircraft was approximetely 25 times more likely to have a fatal accident for any given night flight compared to that same flight operated during daylight hours. I personally do not think FTU's in general adequately cover the risk of night flight during night rating training. To fly at night is your choice, but I fear many low time pilots do fully not understand the true risks and effective mitigation strategies and are flying on oblivious to the dangers.

BTW I will no longer will fly a single engine aircraft at night outside of the circuit.

That's a scary statistic! I'm building hours mostly at night, in the Montreal region. It's never totally dark around here, so I always felt the reduced air traffic in the area and the enhanced visibility of other aircrafts made it at least just as safe to fly by night... It seems I've been pretty naive.

[LousyFisherman]

Question for Cat, BFP and Flapless.

Why will you not fly single engine at night? Is it the difficulty of finding a landing place in the event of failure? If so, how is that risk different than flying single engine during the day over terrain where there is no decent emergency landing place?

TIA
LF

[Cat Driver]

Why will you not fly single engine at night? Is it the difficulty of finding a landing place in the event of failure?

Yes.

If so, how is that risk different than flying single engine during the day over terrain where there is no decent emergency landing place?

During the day I can plan my route so there are places where I can land and at least survive if the engine quits.

Flying in an environment in a single engine airplane where I can not see the surface is just to high a risk for me personally to accept.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Mr Fishing success challenged

The generally accepted definition of a accident that will result in no injuries is one where the forward or downward deaccelaeration is less than 9 Gee's. A light aircraft will deaccelaerate from 60 knots to 0 knots under a steady 9 Gee deacceleration in about 25 feet. The definition of a successfull force landing is no one sustains significant injuries. People generally die during forced approaches becasue they hit an immovable object straight on at flying speed.

When flying schools are teaching the forced approach they must use the ideal case. So you start with a nice long field aligned with the wind and then practice all the steps of the forced appraoch that you will get marked on in the flight test start. The problem with this is it equates "success forced approach" to a "good" field. Now hopefully if god forbid you have an actual engine (and it was not directly caused by the pilots actions/inactions, like 80 % of all actual engine failures) you will be in gliding distance od a good field and in the perfect case not only will there not be injuries, but the airplane will not be hurt either. This was the case when I had an engine failure in a C150. However I am willing to bet that we have very different definitions of "decent emergency landing places". When I fly a light single I work hard not to be part of the 80 % who caused their own engine failure and there are not many times when I am over truely "unlandable terrain" in that there is no small spot to put the aircraft down with a survivable deacceleration. Also to give myself more options, as a general rule I fly really high if the terrain is nasty.

Now back to the night time question. My personal problem with night flying in singles is I do not have faith that I can

1) Identify that patch of ground that will allow the survivable deacceleation, and

2) Be able to see the immovable objects in time to avoid the fatal head on collision .

[trampbike]

BPF, you cited the stat about fatal accident at night. Do you have the stat about any accident (fatal or not)?

[Big Pistons Forever]

BPF, you cited the stat about fatal accident at night. Do you have the stat about any accident (fatal or not)?

Unfortunately the stat came from an article I read a while ago. I have been trying to find the report but so far no luck. The link to the article on AvWeb above has some stats. They show there is a higher percentage of fatal accidents as a proportion of all accidents, for night flights, as compared to flights during the day. Getting accurate stats for GA is difficult because of poor data on the number of actual fleet flight hours. Like I said above the only stats that matter are incidents (No of crashes) per unit of exposure (fleet flight hours). The only number I have seen on GA night flying was that in the US less than 5 % of all GA VFR flying is conducted at night. The 25 times more likely figure may not be absolutely accurate but I am convinced that the accident record is much much worse for night flights. Night flight into bad weather and hitting obstructions on take off and landing seem to be the two big killers