Ornge

[Doc]

Will...got a question for you. I know a very qualified pilot, who thinks he was not interviewed because of his age. I've also heard you will not hire anyone approaching 40 years of age. Any truth in this? Before you deny this, how old are your three oldest pilots?

[Beach 200]

Will...got a question for you. I know a very qualified pilot, who thinks he was not interviewed because of his age. I've also heard you will not hire anyone approaching 40 years of age. Any truth in this? Before you deny this, how old are your three oldest pilots?

Why would your buddy put his birth date or age on his resume?

[Phlyer]

I got an offer and I am in my late thirties.

[4Stroke]

I've also heard you will not hire anyone approaching 40 years of age.

Doc, an ex-colleague of mine was hired at Ornge earlier in '09 and is over 40.

cheers,

4S.

[woneill_ornge]

As I understand it Ornge is government operated or quasi government operated and funded?

Ornge is a non-profit, charitable organization that is not government operated, and ‘quasi’ only insofar as the Ontario government is our largest client, with whom we work closely via what is known as a performance agreement. What this means, in a broad sense, is that the province outlines to us what their expectations are for the services we provide, and we perform in keeping with those targets and standards.

How many employees are there for each aircraft you now operate?

Ornge has around 450 employees, and is growing – we have access to a little over 50 aircraft, deploying these resources as necessary to meet the needs of patient care in the province. Based on posts I’ve read on AVCanada, though, I’m not sure that there is a lot of awareness of the necessity of this broader support structure for Ornge, or of other things our company does, so I think it presents a good opportunity to talk about the difference between how we measure our success, and what we see as the necessity of how to invest in sustainable growth, against how it might be immediately perceived among members of the aviation community.

As I said above, we are not operated by the government – this means that every facet of corporate services that you would find at any company of our size is done in-house. Accordingly, we need professional expertise in finance, human resources, corporate communications (yay!), information technology, regulatory and legal affairs, as well as the many aviation and medical professionals implicit in an organization of our type, not to mention the necessary admin support for all of those tasks.

Furthermore, Ornge is a lot more than an ‘air ambulance’ company – our aircraft are, essentially, flying hospitals. I could go on with the bullet-point version, but to put it simply: We are both actively running and planning for the future of a full-scale corporation, initiatives to share our innovations with other provinces and agencies, a school, a charitable foundation, a youth safety program, a paramedical corps, a high-tech communications centre, and an airline. Is that staff intensive? Yes. Is it well beyond the scope of an ‘air ambulance’ provider? Yes. Have we, in due consideration, determined that this vision is in the best interests of patient care and transport medicine in the province of Ontario, not only for the present, but also for the future? Absolutely.

And, of course, Ornge’s aviation capacity is growing right along with the rest of the company as a whole – we have 10 new AW-139 helicopters on the way, as well as 6 new Pilatus PC-12 fixed-wing aircraft already in service.

What do you foresee for the number of employees per aircraft operated to be once you reach full planned aircraft capacity?

I don’t think anybody could give an estimate of this – certainly there is planning, but Ornge is also a company that thrives on innovation. In two, five or ten years we could be following up on amazing new ideas for impoving patient care and advancing the field of transport medicine that are yet to be thought of.

[woneill_ornge]

Will...got a question for you. I know a very qualified pilot, who thinks he was not interviewed because of his age. I've also heard you will not hire anyone approaching 40 years of age. Any truth in this? Before you deny this, how old are your three oldest pilots?

Hopefully Fotoflyer and 4Stroke assisted in your concerns with this, Doc, but I want make our position on this very clear, in a bit more of a corporate tone than I would ordinarily take: Ornge absolutely does not have this kind of discriminatory hiring policy. What you’re suggesting would be a violation of the Canadian Human Rights Act. It would be severely illegal – not to mention wholly unethical, unnecessary and almost certainly counterproductive – for us to do this. It would be no different than not hiring somebody due to their gender, race or religion.

Also, for privacy reasons, I wouldn’t be able to disclose pilot ages in any way that would be verifiable to you without identifying the pilots as well, which of course I could not do. It also wouldn’t be firm evidence of anything, as there could be any number of reasons for the ages of our pilots that would in no way indicate a systemic attempt within Ornge to not hire persons above a certain age.

For this, I hope you’ll just accept the anecdotes given by your colleagues above.

[impress]

woneill_ornge I have a question.

Why do you think ornge can provide a better service than the existing companies that have built this great Air Ambulance system for Ontario? How can you be so bold to think you are more capable than the decades of experience that are already providing Excellent Patient Care to Ontario? I guess in short, can you give me a "non-propoganda" honest answer as to why you need an "airline" when you have access to dozens of aircraft in Ontario already? How can you justify this cost to us taxpayers?

[woneill_ornge]

woneill_ornge I have a question.

Why do you think orngecan provide a better service than the existing companies that have built this great Air Ambulance system for Ontario? How can you be so bold to think you are more capable than the decades of experience that are already providing Excellent Patient Care to Ontario?

You are correct in saying that such a claim would be both bold and suspect were it solely our own. The reality, however, is that Ornge was formed largely in reaction to the findings and recommendations of government reports, inquiries, and agencies – including both the Coroner’s Office and the Auditor General – that the air ambulance system to which you refer was inadequate.

I guess in short, can you give me a "non-propoganda" honest answer as to why you need an "airline" when you have access to dozens of aircraft in Ontario already? How can you justify this cost to us taxpayers?

As the case goes with many - if not all - businesses, it is more cost-effective in the long run to acquire and use your own assets rather than contract them from third parties who will, of course, include a profit to themselves in their fees. As such, acquiring our own vehicles is an excellent example of how Ornge is focused on the long-term sustainability of our service.

Furthermore, these savings in the provision of services can then be reinvested into improving patient care, keeping pace with the progressively expanding need for transport medicine in the province overall. In short, and in many other ways I haven’t expanded on here, our goal is to give the taxpayer more bang for their buck while delivering the appropriate level of service to Ontarians in need.

That being said, we consider those whom we work with through service agreements to be valuable partners in our efforts – all of us share a professional obligation to bring medical assistance to those who need it, and we know that this is a passion we share with many, many others. All of us are privileged to act together in a system where co-operation for the sake of saving lives both absolutely and always comes first, and we look forward to continuing the work we are doing with each of them.

[Cat Driver]

woneill_ornge, you ever consider getting into politics?

[Doc]

woneill_ornge, you ever consider getting into politics?

He's IN politics! Can't even say...."we have 3 pilots over the age of 40....." without getting all PC about it. Total BS.

[Conquest Driver]

The reality, however, is that Ornge was formed largely in reaction to the findings and recommendations of government reports, inquiries, and agencies – including both the Coroner’s Office and the Auditor General

I find it interesting that the Coroner is allegedly involved. Will, can you tell me the last time a SOA carrier had a fatal accident involving ORNGE personnel or patients?

[youvegottobekidding]

Conquest Driver,

Would the Coroner only get involved in the event of a fatal accident? Perhaps it had to do with patient care onboard an SOA carrier.

[2R]

Have they ran out of blank cheques yet ?
Anyone can pretend to run a business when you use blank cheques.I suppose that is what is meant by non-profit.
The shareholders will expect a return eventually and that is when the brown stuff will hit the rotating aerofoil.

Can i buy a vow_l ?

[Conquest Driver]

Conquest Driver,

Would the Coroner only get involved in the event of a fatal accident? Perhaps it had to do with patient care onboard an SOA carrier.

I hadn't thougth of that. However I'd still like an answer to my original question.

Then yes, were there any cases where the Coroner found SOA medical care to be the cause or a contributing case to a death. And just to keep things even, have there been any cases where the Coroner found ORNGE to be the cause or a contributing cause?

[turbo-prop]

Its just like STARs. Theres STARs society that is non profit and they do fundraising and go to all the communities and blow smoke up their arse about how they need to support them so the community can have coverage. Then there's all the other companies there that have actual contracts with the Alberta government to fly medevacs.

[2R]

How many helicoptors are stars operating ?
How big is the stars budget ?

I think you will find a big difference between the two services offered.

[HORUNNER]

Man there is a lot of crying here in the employment section, maybe you guys can move over to the political forum

[Doc]

ORNGE...I'd like to know how you slid (260 million is the figure I've heard bounced around) past the Ontario tax payer, for an operation running Swiss manufactured, single engine aircraft, in direct competition with the private sector? I think you called it "non profit"....no shit, Sherlock!

[theabcman]

I have heard from some of Ornge's pilots over a few beers, that they do a lot of non critical calls.
Are they not just a critical care carrier?

You have to love the Scuttlebutts Beer and Boston pizza!!!!! One of the pilots is quite a good storyteller and has a big mouth!!

[AnotherFlyOnTheWall]

Hey AVCanada ... When did Ornge buy you out? Why do you allow a PR shill on this forum?

Hey Shill, a few questions:

How much money does the Ontario taxpayer give Ornge each year?
How does a NON Profit form a run a for-profit company such as Ornge Air?
How does a non profit secure a line of credit of $175 Million?
How did you manage to secure $275 Million to purchase assets?
Has the Gov of Ontario underwritten these debt taskings?

If you want to blow smoke about performance agreements, then POST THEM and let the taxpayers of Ontario decide for themselves about whether or not we are getting value for our money.

AFOTW Jeez!

[Doc]

Hey AVCanada ... When did Ornge buy you out? Why do you allow a PR shill on this forum?

Hey Shill, a few questions:

How much money does the Ontario taxpayer give Ornge each year?
How does a NON Profit form a run a for-profit company such as Ornge Air?
How does a non profit secure a line of credit of $175 Million?
How did you manage to secure $275 Million to purchase assets?
Has the Gov of Ontario underwritten these debt taskings?

If you want to blow smoke about performance agreements, then POST THEM and let the taxpayers of Ontario decide for themselves about whether or not we are getting value for our money.

AFOTW Jeez!

BRAVO!!! Well put indeed! Well Ornge....out with it!
You shouldn't even exist in the first place. No need for the greed..

[HORUNNER]

Hey AVCanada ... When did Ornge buy you out? Why do you allow a PR shill on this forum?

Hey Shill, a few questions:

How much money does the Ontario taxpayer give Ornge each year?
How does a NON Profit form a run a for-profit company such as Ornge Air?
How does a non profit secure a line of credit of $175 Million?
How did you manage to secure $275 Million to purchase assets?
Has the Gov of Ontario underwritten these debt taskings?

If you want to blow smoke about performance agreements, then POST THEM and let the taxpayers of Ontario decide for themselves about whether or not we are getting value for our money.

AFOTW Jeez!

Any chance you want to sign in with your real name and contact info,

or do you just want to hide behind a new bogus name with 3 posts and thro tomatoes

just because they didnt want you and do the job better then your company doesnt mean I should have to see your ranttings GO CRY ELSEWHERE





I have said it before can you move the whinning to another forum this one is for employment info !!!!!!!!!

[impress]

The reality, however, is that Ornge was formed largely in reaction to the findings and recommendations of government reports, inquiries, and agencies – including both the Coroner’s Office and the Auditor General – that the air ambulance system to which you refer was inadequate.

Can you please post a link to or provide instructions on finding these reports? I HIGHLY doubt they specify taking away contracts from private companies and leveraging the taxpayers to procure new equipment that is simply inferior (fixed wing). Or to spend double to triple the previous budget on things like 2 new office facilities, a newer over sized hangar (YQT), Multiple layers of management without industry experience, all to simply replace what already existed. We havn't even increased the capacity of this "inadequate" system yet. Your premise is weak and you know it, taxpayers in Ontario will be educated sooner or later and you had better prepare your defense now because the "people" will be out for answers.

[youvegottobekidding]

impress, why are you so bitter? Jealous about a successful startup carrier?

[Thinking]

I've been doing air ambulance as a medic for a little over 10 years, part of it in the SOA world, and part of it in the CHL/Voyageur/Ornge world. I have to say, the SOA world is shitty, dirty, poorly laid out aircraft, on call crews who are often flying without appropriate rest, always trying to squeeze the nickel until the beaver shits. The "Dedicated" side of CHL and formerly Voyageur (who were great) ensured that their aircraft were well maintained and set up for the job, the crews only do shifts giving them the opportunity to have adequate rest (sure, we all know "Bob" always plays hockey when he should be sleeping, but for the most part...), CHL sends their pilots to FSI every year for recurrent training, oh, and they are generally well paid, hopefully attracting people who will stay. I can't wait to be rid of the mish-mash of aircraft and providers in the SOA world, which we have to fly on fairly regularly, and have on standardized fixed wing system across the province. To those that bitch about the PC12, you may be right, it may not be your ideal aircraft being single engine and all, however it is already doing the bulk of SOA air ambulance operations across the province, for Bravo and others, and has been for years. If you don't like it, that's great, you don't have to fly it, you obviously have lots of options for employment elsewhere. To Doc and Cat Driver and all the others who have made an internet career of bashing Ornge, obviously you're never going to jump on board with them, why the @#$! do you keep posting about them? Really? Do you have nothing better to do? It might be time to get a life.