Pass Travel charge

[genetic jack hammer]

Have to ask whats the diff between Jazz and Georgan? Different companys that AC contracted to do a job. (nothing) If anything Georgan guys should be upset that you guys get C2'S and are ahead of them. Not to mention that Jazz employees can bump AC employees. How many companies in the States can do that on the Airlines they are connecting for? NONE

Georgian employees get C2's DOH, along with AC and Jazz. I flew for them for over 8 years, and when the industry was booming (pre-9/11), A LOT of people were hired, hence a lot below me from DOH. The computer system that AC uses can't tell the difference between AC, JAZZ or GGN (or CMA, etc). All it see's it DOH. The only thing that GGN didn't have (it might be changed now) was a jumpseat agreement with AC.

Ah nope! Georgian do not get a real C2. For boarding purposes, they are given a C2 but of with the date of hire as the date of travel. They do not bump Jazz or AC. Yes, they can tell whether you are 3rd tier. Don't quote me but from what I heard 3rd tier is now C4 or 5.

Well, if they are now C4 or C5, that is new. With respect to the C2 issue, i new of more than one occasion where i did bump an AC and/or Jazz Pilot or F/A. Not of my doing, obviously, but perhaps on the negligence of the gate agent. Nevertheless, i've seen their standby lists, and on it, I was shown as a C2, not distinction between AC/Jazz/GGN.

And since I mentioned negligence, one other tid-bit. When I started at Jazz, I was told that I could keep the same Travel profile (from GGN). I did mention that all that needed to be changed would be my DOH. A month later, hadn't been changed. Two months later, nada. Called them up on this (to avoid getting my pee-pee slapped) and was told that they forgot. SIX months later, nothing changed. It is now.

Happy holidays everyone.

[Brick Head]

Whiteguy,

Traditionally airlines charge an administration fee for passes. The fee is to cover the cost of administration only. When pass travel went to the web, one of the reasons everyone went C2 was the lower cost to administrate. No other airline that I know of does it differently. WJ for example is a flat $2.50 for the service. AC has never charged anything other than a service/administration fee in their decades of employee pass travel UNTIL......

Yeah that's right until an exemption was put in place during CCAA. While the employees were not paying attention the company was adding fees for everything from food to fuel. Those are not administration fees. In fact today we have buy on board food, and fuel has dropped by half but the fees didn't go away.

I know of no other airline that charges anything other than the administration cost of the pass. (Excluding charter companies of course as they don't own the seats generally)

This is a negotiating tactic people. Think about it. When you are at the table a pool of money is sitting on it. When you ask for a pass travel exemption the company will want to remove millions from the table as a result.

This is a suck in. Do not negotiate an exemption unless you get it for free. It will turn into a never ending give away to the company. One that will pop up every time you go to the table.

What we need is a statement in our collective agreements that states employees will never be asked to pay more than the cost to administer the pass travel system.

Just like it used to be. Just like it is at other airlines.

But I can tell you right now. the company will insist on something in return even though these costs have been created by them out of thin air.

[Localizer]

Brickhead wrote:

What we need is a statement in our collective agreements that states employees will never be asked to pay more than the cost to administer the pass travel system.

Thats a good start, or even better yet ... All employees commuting for the purpose of their duty are exempt from all cost under the Employee Travel Program.

This has to be a joint effort, from both parties working together for this to be achieved. Pilot and FA's at AC and Jazz. That's the only way to truly get the point across! Another thing is that both company Union's should be in CR's office demanding justification for the charges. A clear cut outline of all cost to AC and how the charges equate.

Hopeful ..... Happy Holiday's!

Loc

[whiteguy]

Thats a good start, or even better yet ... All employees commuting for the purpose of their duty are exempt from all cost under the Employee Travel Program.

Including ramp, groomers, mechanics etc......... Good Luck with that!!!

[dream_big]

Sorry but I'm not mainline and I'm not bashing employees at Jazz. Just stating facts, the exemption had an expiry date and it expired. The unions at mainline negotiated an extension in their new contracts.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most of the Jazz employees that are pissed off were new hires hired during the exemption and have never had to pay the service fees. Am I right? If thats the case then sorry but I don't really care, as far as I'm concerned new hire's should never have been exempt. That includes new hire's at mainline!

Well, if your not AC employee or jazz then why would you come on here and start shit. We all know jazz is pissed about the situation. And if your neither a jazz/AC pilot that you OBVIOUSLY do NOT have all the facts to make any type of conclusive argument.

Yes and no! There are some juniors pilots bitching about it, because it will have a negative effect on them. BUT there are just as many seniors that are not happy about this as well. Why? because they also pay more now and then ALSO care about our junior pilots and will help/try to make starting life here at jazz easier. But overall, NOBODY is happy at jazz about it, and nearly everyone will/has complained.

And thank you, we all hope something changes too. whether it's just getting rid of the charges or just mere fairness. Time will tell.

[whiteguy]

Well, if your not AC employee or jazz then why would you come on here and start shit. We all know jazz is pissed about the situation. And if your neither a jazz/AC pilot that you OBVIOUSLY do NOT have all the facts to make any type of conclusive argument.

Worked at AC for 10 years before before my current job, pretty sure I have enough of the facts!!!!

[Localizer]

Whiteguy wrote:

Worked at AC for 10 years before before my current job, pretty sure I have enough of the facts!!!!

How long have you been at your new job? If its been awhile since your AC days .. maybe things have changed. Nothing around here stays the same for long ... 10 yrs, you should know that ...



Loc

[Brick Head]

Thats a good start, or even better yet ... All employees commuting for the purpose of their duty are exempt from all cost under the Employee Travel Program.

This subject came up at the MEC level a while back. The MEC voted against pursuing anything that would result in a benefit for just commuters. I can't see that changing. I don't know about Jazz, but at AC, a special privilege for commuters would create backlash from the membership. It is why we don't even have a commuter policy. There would be a lot of objection to using any bargaining capital to pursue it.

Another thing is that both company Union's should be in CR's office demanding justification for the charges. A clear cut outline of all cost to AC and how the charges equate.

Agreed completely. Those charges are the problem, and CR should be held accountable for justifying the charges.

Keep in mind though these charges were not created by him. Rather by Monty Brewer and his marketing/revenue model. The same guy that was adding extra charges everywhere for passenger bookings in an attempt to drive up revenue. He targeted the pass travel program as well. He has now gone to Allegiant and is pursuing the same type of marketing and revenue model there. Maybe it will work better for a low cost. At any rate it didn't work here. Near term he generated a few extra bucks. But between his spillage yield management, and all the extra costs he was adding, AC was literally driving pax at WJ.

One of the first things CR did was start to unwind all these annoying costs that were pissing off passengers. What needs to be pointed out to him is that Montie did the same to the pass travel system. His employees are just as unhappy with it, and they expect him to unwind it, just as he did for our paying passengers.

Happy New Year.

[whiteguy]

Whiteguy wrote:

Worked at AC for 10 years before before my current job, pretty sure I have enough of the facts!!!!

How long have you been at your new job? If its been awhile since your AC days .. maybe things have changed. Nothing around here stays the same for long ... 10 yrs, you should know that ...



Loc

Been gone for 2 years but still in the know!

[proper]

WOW! Commuting from the US got two solid kicks in the nuts. Screening ang patdown, andmore than twice the godamn price to fly...ON OUR OWNPLANES!!! Zeds are cheaper...neat. (*&^ I hope what goes around comes around.

[mattedfred]

i'm think i should price out the cost of a train trip from YYZ to YUL return. at least i wouldn't have to adhere to a commuting policy or go through security.

[mbav8r]

Just friggin ridiculous, went to see how much it would cost now with these new friggin sector charges. I can't even explain in words how mad I am. Me and the wife, the 2 kids and one of their friends, 1100.00 to PHX. So much for taking the kids to see Grandma for a few days. At that price I have to go for 2 weeks to justify the trip. Somebody explain to me how this is not just a cash grab. There is no f@#$%n way that 5 bums in empty seats can justify this cost.
One of the main benefits of working for an airline used to be pass travel, because we all know at the piss ass wages we get, we can't afford to travel otherwise. Now I guess I'll have to look for seat sales whether it be Westjet or not I don't care.
Guess what Joe, I don't care what your first offer is my answer will be NOOOOO!!!!!!

[mattedfred]

hey bud,

if you live in MB i heard the drive to fargo is worth it. i'm not sure if it is delta/northwest or not but the fares out of there are supposedly way cheaper

[mbav8r]

Yep, I'll gladly give my hard earned money to another airline. I will not support these crooked ceo's grabbing more money out of my already diminished paycheck.

[ggofp]

WORK TO RULE NOW!!!!

[flyinhigh]

Yup, I live in Ywg and fly westjet for commuting ALL the time now.

As for the US, yup. Grandforks and Fargo are just a short 11/2 -2 hour drive away and now the same price for a confirmed ticket. Gee where am I going now.

[kingtwo]

WORK TO RULE NOW!!!!

Agreed!!

[mattedfred]

working to rule or any other type of organized job action at this point in negotiations would be illegal

some contracts allow the following options at the sole discretion of the pilot:

the choice of working overtime
the choice of waiving crew rest to the minimum
volunteering for an unscheduled overnight
making uniform purchases
getting a headset or overnight bag repaired

as safety should be the number 1 priority one should familiarize themselves with the following rules and regs in order to avoid fatigue:

maximum duty day, minimum crew rest, reassignment rules, maximum hours while on reserve, overtime restrictions, sick bank

[whiteguy]

WORK TO RULE NOW!!!!

Agreed!!

Good idea! Should make it easier to commute when you have no passes at all!

[countryhick]

as safety should be the number 1 priority one should familiarize themselves with the following rules and regs in order to avoid fatigue:

maximum duty day, minimum crew rest, reassignment rules, maximum hours while on reserve, overtime restrictions, sick bank

Exactly, know your contract guys and gals

[Bede]

working to rule or any other type of organized job action at this point in negotiations would be illegal

some contracts allow the following options at the sole discretion of the pilot:

the choice of working overtime
the choice of waiving crew rest to the minimum
volunteering for an unscheduled overnight
making uniform purchases
getting a headset or overnight bag repaired

as safety should be the number 1 priority one should familiarize themselves with the following rules and regs in order to avoid fatigue:

maximum duty day, minimum crew rest, reassignment rules, maximum hours while on reserve, overtime restrictions, sick bank

Doesn't work to rule mean fly the contract, no more, no less. I don't think it falls under strike action. I think work to rule is basically what the unionists have wanted all along: no one does anything outside the CA (ie no out of seniority WDO's, doing a reserve flight outside call hours, etc.)

[mattedfred]

it does mean what you say but doing it in an organized fashion at this point would still be illegal

http://www.law-faqs.org/wiki/index.php/ ... 2.80.9D.3F

however, any one of us can choose to work overtime or not for any reason

and we should never break our current contract or do something that is unsafe or illegal

[Bede]

it does mean what you say but doing it in an organized fashion at this point would still be illegal

http://www.law-faqs.org/wiki/index.php/ ... 2.80.9D.3F

however, any one of us can choose to work overtime or not for any reason

and we should never break our current contract or do something that is unsafe or illegal

Exactly, but we pretty much just work the contract anyways. If you consider teachers who do a ton of stuff outside of the contract (clubs, sports, staying late after school to help kids, etc.) work to rule is far more drastic than for pilots.

[Localizer]

A huge start would be for all pilots to turn down WDO's ... Between the government and other deductions you don't really take much of that home .. so why waste your time.

[Bede]

A huge start would be for all pilots to turn down WDO's ... Between the government and other deductions you don't really take much of that home .. so why waste your time.

I don't do WDO's because I'm a commuter, but I would if I could. I feel for the guys at the top of the FO list, but think of it this way: for 1 extra captain spot there would be about 15 WDO's per month to be given out, spread across, (ideally) 15 other pilots. Now let's say you're on the top of the FO list; you can do 2 WDO's per month which will put your pay at about the same as a captain, but you can choose to work or not to work. And you will have a much better schedule than a bottom rung captain. Other airlines have no reserve and only a WDO type arrangement- they can run a much leaner operation.