T.C shuts part of Skyward down

Fireflyer · Post by **Fireflyer** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:31 pm

Things never cease to amaze me. Centerstored I think you should read what CCAA means. There are several sites on the web that you can enlighten yourself.

Yes, they can sell assets to help them get back up and running. As for all the little birdies, as you put it, it is in there best interest to have the company back up and running. For you see they are refered to unsecured creditors which meens they will get s$$t if the company closes the doors. You may ask why because the secured creditor will fire sale all the assets for what they are owed and could not give a s$$t about anyone else. So you see it will be in their best interest in helping the company stand on its own two feet.

As for the 30 days that is just the next time they have to go to court. This is the start to a long process.

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:45 pm

Heard they are going after Government money.

centerstored · Post by **centerstored** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:34 pm

Fire, the assets could belong to the creditors very soon. That is my whole point! Why would the creditors want skyward to sell off some $hit, get some cash, and blow it. The creditors would surely get $hit then. At least now there may be something left to sell and divide up. I don't think skyward only owes from the last 7 or 8 weeks, these money concerns have been heard all over the North for over a year now.

Corporate Pilot · Post by **Corporate Pilot** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:42 pm

As I understand the CCAA rules, for the moment, all creditors are held at bay. Slyward has till about April 4th to file a proposal with the Court showing how the company is going to restructure and deal with its debts. The proposal must be accepted by creditors representing 2/3 of the amounts due as well as the Court.

No approval - it becomes a liquidation situation.

Leasing companies will just pickup their equipment (like office equipment, aircraft, vehicles, etc.) Secured creditors (those holding collateral security interest on their loans, like airplanes, hangars, vehicles, etc.) will seize their specific secured assets. The federal and provincial governments (taxes and employee witholdings) could chose be real nasty to grab things first, but generally do not. It will be a rotating door of bailiffs!

The bankruptcy trustees get paid first then all unsecured creditors (general suppliers, utilities, fuel, insurance, contractors, etc.) share what's left. Usually that doesn't amount to much because everything is sold at "fire-sale" prices. I believe employees are unsecured creditors and are at the bottom of the food chain. (Its been some time since I studied this stuff so I might have some details wrong, but you get the idea.)

As a matter of note, Skyward's debts are significant! The debts of a company must exceed $5-million dollars in order to seek protection under CCAA rules. (The only companies I have heard of using CCAA are airlines - Air Canada, Skyward, Jetsgo. I sure there are others but I haven't been paying attention!

)

tripleseven · Post by **tripleseven** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:46 am

From what I understood, employees are held in higher regard than secured creditors, but I may be wrong.

Corporate Pilot · Post by **Corporate Pilot** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:02 am

tripleseven wrote:From what I understood, employees are held in higher regard than secured creditors

I researched this a bit, it seems to have changed a little since I last looked: the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act passed in 1992 maintains preferred status for wage and entertainment expense claims in the event an employer goes bankrupt. The limit was increased from $500 to $2,000 with regard to wage claims, and from $300 to $1,000 in the case of entertainment expenses claims.

This means that unpaid employees get paid BEFORE unsecured creditors for up to $2,000 in wages and up to $1000 in outstanding out-of-pocket expense claims.

But secured creditors (and probably the trustee) still get paid first.

The single biggest problem with this is that a bank (in this case a credit union) usually takes a debenture security over EVERYTHING owned by the debtor that isn't already a security registered to someone else. That usually means that there is NOTHING left for employees or unsecured creditors.

There have apparently been proposals for legislation giving employees a "super-priority" ahead of all others but that hasn't gone anywhere.

Corporate Pilot · Post by **Corporate Pilot** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:05 am

DAY 49

Spring has sprung ... and Slyward's suspension enters WEEK EIGHT!!

flynbutcher · Post by **flynbutcher** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:36 am

This has to be a record for the number of posts on a single topic

fred_fredericks · Post by **fred_fredericks** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:33 pm

The little birdy says they are now down a QA insp.

One more space to fill in the event that the doors are reopened.

momz · Post by **momz** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:35 am

Most companies have seperate payroll accounts that are not part of the commonly known general account-in a CCAA environment the employees are the top priority, concerning their wages, then government bodies such as receiver general etc.
I would imagine the same works with Skyward--not knowing all the facts lead to a lot of mis-information and perhaps someone could ask the monitors (which I am sure Skyward has) for the exact information, again as always innuendos are not the true bottom line--and again--if Skyward has done everything wrong--how did they pass other audits--seems to me there is something else going on here--how did other companies have fatalities and be up and running within a few days???something smells rotten in Denmark wouldn' you say?????????????

TROWL · Post by **TROWL** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:50 am

seems to me there is something else going on here--how did other companies have fatalities and be up and running within a few days???something smells rotten in Denmark wouldn' you say?????????????

Momz, pull your head out of your ass. What you're essentially saying is that transport should wait until a fatality occurs before taking corrective action against a company who is noncompliant.

Transport does not go around shutting down companies on whimsy. Taking away AMO's because of the quality of the photocopying.

Momz: Have you talked to any of the former AME's at Skyward? Do you have any idea of the things they had to suffer through? Do you have any idea what the managment culture was like?

I doubt that the CEO would have forced FB to step down if Skyward was simply being bullied by Transport.

Further, -and get this into your brain- one of the purposes of an audit is to ensure compliance and *prevent* fatalities *before* they happen.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:57 am

Trowl, i think you are misreading what momz meant.

TROWL · Post by **TROWL** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:04 am

Canus, that's why I quoted. Seems fairly clear what she was getting at.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:24 am

TROWL wrote:Momz, pull your head out of your ass. What you're essentially saying is that transport should wait until a fatality occurs before taking corrective action against a company who is noncompliant.

Transport does not go around shutting down companies on whimsy. Taking away AMO's because of the quality of the photocopying.

Like I said, I think you misread momz intent. But I won't defend momz, momz can do that in good time. However, from what I've seen with my only 10 years of experience in this industry is that, yes, it does seem to take a fatality or serious accident before TC reacts and does something about it. And, yes, TC doesn't just go running around shutting companies down for no good reason, as I stated in a previous post that something REALLY bad must of happened to still be grounded after all this time.

cheers

Corporate Pilot · Post by **Corporate Pilot** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:14 am

momz wrote:Most companies have seperate payroll accounts that are not part of the commonly known general account-in a CCAA environment the employees are the top priority, concerning their wages, then government bodies such as receiver general etc.

What you say is probably true, once a proposal has been accepted by the creditors and Court. Until then, there are no such rules and, unfortunately, niceties like running separate accounts for payroll doesn't amount to a row of beans in a liquidation environment. The bank (credit union) will or already has seized everything they can get their hands on.

Corporate Pilot · Post by **Corporate Pilot** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:16 am

DAY 50

The big "five-o".

jabber · Post by **jabber** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:47 pm

Have you talked to any of the former AME's at Skyward? Do you have any idea of the things they had to suffer through? Do you have any idea what the managment culture was like?

I doubt that the CEO would have forced FB to step down if Skyward was simply being bullied by Transport.

So what are all the AME's saying cause i haven't read anything from them on this loooooooooooooong thread.
And correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't FB the CEO so how exactly does that work??

What I find interesting is that after 50 days I haven't found one post from a Skyward pilot that the planes were in terrible shape and that they deserved to be shutdown. And we all know pilots love to complain. And some of the things I hear from "little birdies" is that transport is unapproving things they already approved and making it extremely difficult for our Skyward pals. And don't forget its a government job so 8-5 Mon-Fri(if your lucky) after that your on your own.

centerstored · Post by **centerstored** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:32 pm

Maybe if the T's were crossed and the i's were dotted 50 days ago they wouldn't have to worry about businees hours?

HotelMode · Post by **HotelMode** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:18 pm

your little birdies must be deaf & dumb.

If a company has the Operating Certificate yanked they are told why either in person or on the phone and get a notice advising them the grounds of the suspension and how to get it back. I don't think that has changed in years. been down that road before, problem's start when management does not inform everyone and rumors start or very long threads on avcanada. They also hire consultants to help them get back in the air. Does anyone know if FB has hired anyone?

centerstored · Post by **centerstored** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:04 pm

I think that those companies are hired for flight ops (training, dispatch, op. control etc). I heard that they used a company from out west immediately after the suspension. Their biggest problems were likely in maintenance, which involves spending tons of cash to fix systems and aircraft. The issue now is most likely a lack of qualified staff (people in key positions quitting), and serious DEBT!

timetogo · Post by **timetogo** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:27 am

It has become clear that Transport does not want Skyward to be up and running. They have backed them into a corner and are now kicking them while they are down. Every time Skyward comes close to having an aircraft in the air they get pulled back down again. Either by TC or by one of the companies that are suppose to be helping Skyward out. You are all going by what you hear or read. I'm seeing it with my own eyes.

TROWL · Post by **TROWL** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:57 am

Yep, transport is evil. Must have a hateon for Skyward cause they didn't donate to the liberals.

Poor poor Skyward. Get'n screwed by The Man.

And FB was the President. GP is the CEO. GP shitcanned FB.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:03 am

" Maybe if the T's were crossed and the i's were dotted 50 days ago they wouldn't have to worry about businees hours? "

This mindset is typical of what is wrong with the system.

Crossing T's and dotting I's does not have any real guarantee that any operation is being run safely.

All that does is protect drones who push paper.

What a sad, sad industry made even sader by people who believe that paper work ensures compliance.

As I sit here typing I am once again waiting for paper work approval to allow us to fly an airplane that I left in airworthy condition last October, and this airplane has been stored in a heated hangar.

Canada is very quickly spiraling downward towards the same morass of bureaucratic madness that we have here in Europe....

.......I can't wait until I finally get out of this business and get to live like a normal person.

Cat

Corporate Pilot · Post by **Corporate Pilot** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:23 am

DAY 51

I've been meaning to ask ... about this thread name .... which part of Skyward is not shut down??!!

TROWL · Post by **TROWL** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:27 am

They can fuel airplanes.

In other news: James Rosko shot 4 cops, but it wasn't his fault. The cops were out to get him.

Michael Jackson is on trial for molesting children. But it isn't his fault. The world is out to get him.

The FBI has charged someone presumed to be the BTK killer. But it isn't the fellows fault. Voices told him to kill.

And what's the best thing about being an evangelical christian? What happens in your life isn't you're fault. It is a part of Gods plan.