So I kinda want to be a mechanic.

[niss]

You guys are absolutely right, your opinions matter way too much to me, perhaps I should also quit flying all together?

[Cranium]

CAR 566.03 (4) (d) (ii) Experience requirements expressed in months are predicated upon full time employment of 1800 working hours per year. Applicants with part time experience acquired at a lower rate than this may convert their actual working hours to months at the rate of one month for each 150 working hours, but in no case can a higher rate of work be used to obtain more than one month’s credit for each actual calendar month worked.

Technically possible to do, but I wouldn't advise it if you intend to save money. By the time you invested in a course and bought tools and equipment, you'll have paid more than you'd save.

As well, an AME working independently is restricted in the amount of work allowed. (See CAR 571 Schedule II).

If you want a hobby, go for it! Just do it right.

[SeptRepair]

Technically possible to do, but I wouldn't advise it if you intend to save money. By the time you invested in a course and bought tools and equipment, you'll have paid more than you'd save.

What!? You mean you cant just go to an AMO and ask to borrow the mag timer, DP tester, brake bleeder, torque wrenches etc when you do your annual? Cmon, A person only uses them once a year, kind of hard to justify purchasing thousands worth of tools when I'm sure a guy could just borrow them from an established engineer so he can save a few bucks. Not saying you would do that Niss, but god dam that is the common theme we as engineers hear and face daily. Your just a kick dog for our frustrations. Try not to take it personally.

[beechnut]

Septrepair I have personally suffered your personal attacks for years and I still consider you as a friend .Why I'm not sure.Beechnut

[SeptRepair]

Cause you worship the ground I walk on? HAHA.

[beechnut]

Septrepair I would love to do a battle of witts with you but you appear to be unarmed

[bronco78]

**

[niss]

Stick to driving them!! anyone can do that.

Some of us aren't just satisfied with driving them.

[bronco78]

**

[niss]

Stick to driving them!! anyone can do that.

Some of us aren't just satisfied with driving them.

well you didn't read the whole post. it's not as simple as driving them. being an AME is not a friggin hobby, how is that so hard to understand. If you want to work on your own so bad and kill yerself, change your plane to an "owner maintained" category. then that can be your hobby. You still don't get it that an A/C is not LIKE ur CAR.
oh why even try.

sure, you can be an AME with a simple 40 hr course....just like being a pilot.

Amazing that you can be such an accomplished mechanical God like yourself with that sort of ignorance.

How many pilots have you killed as an apprentice? How many did you kill when you first got your license? There are horrible mechanics with assloads of experience as well. So how do you figure if I go through the motions and actually obtain my ticket then I am automatically the worst mechanic out there?

An aircraft is not like a car? As if it seriously took me 80 hours of flying and 3 years of airplane ownership before Bronco78 descended from the heavens and explained to me the difference between a car and an airplane. This whole time I was doing this because I thought it would lower the insurance on my truck.

YES I KNOW AN A/C IS NOT A CAR!!! Is this secret mechanic knowledge that you only get on the last day of your trade school. Was it so hush hush that on right before they handed you your ticket, they said "By the way Bronco78, since you stuck it out the whole way, you are trustworthy enough to know this.....you weren't working on cars the whole time, they are actually airplanes!"

I appreciate the insight into your secretive society, but you will have to excuse me as I look for second opinions of people who would rather help then be an enormous %&^*.

[iflyforpie]

Don't know if any of you weekend AME wannabees realize it, but getting you Ame lic. is not like getting a pilots lic.

Really? I found them to be about the same in terms of commitment. More money for the pilot's license, but more time for the AME.

It takes a lot more than 40 hrs and you actually have to pass. you can't keep failing till you pass.

You're kidding right? I don't know how many 'forever apprentices' I knew that couldn't get past CARS or even Standard Practices no matter how many times they tried...

another thing is, it's not like working on ur f'in car. If you screw up, the is no pulling over to the side of the road!

No sh!t, same as flying an airplane.

The greatest pilot Quote I ever heard pertaining to maintenance was " I don't know why it taking so long to put the propeller on that A/C.....all it does is go round and round!"

And none should take a week to put on either. I've installed them from 70" on 65HP to 14' on 5000HP and none took more than two hours from sling to safety. The 14' prop only had one nut holding it on though...




I think it is funny you AMEs who get all mad that somebody actually wants to learn the profession. It isn't that hard, and if a person puts the time and effort in so they get their license, then they deserve it regardless of what they want to do with it.

As an aircraft owner and pilot, I think niss would make a better AME than many. I've heard AMEs say they would never fly on what they fixed and I've seen AMEs with such poor skills that I wouldn't let them near my lawnmower let alone my aircraft. And I have personally experienced the 'having to pull over to the side of the road' because of other AMEs mistakes.

If you want to know where the best skills for fabric or glass are, check out the homebuilder bunch. Most AMEs (myself included) are woefully lacking in skills in these areas. And believe it or not, I've learned nearly as much from pilots about fixing aircraft as AMEs, especially older and rarer aircraft that many AMEs never even heard of. Most pilots know their limitations too, as I get quite a bit of business by helping with OM aircraft even though I charge $90/hr...

Never mind the haters niss. I've told you it is a hard road if you want to take it. I only wrench about 500 hrs a year and I probably will never do it full-time again. But it is something I never regretted learning and something I will never give up...

[hz2p]

Things are different in the USA, where they have an A&P and an A&P/IA.

You need to be an IA to sign off an annual inspection, but you can work away part time at getting your A&P, and if you lived in the USA, that's what you could do. Pretty common, actually.

There is no parallel in Canada - either you are an AME (same as A&P/IA) or you are nothing. And there is the requirement of 6 months FULL TIME employment to get an AME that ensures that you will be a "forever apprentice" regardless of how many thousands of hours and decades or work and tasks that you have performed.

[Meatservo]

[]

Don't know if any of you weekend AME wannabees realize it, but getting you Ame lic. is not like getting a pilots lic. It takes a lot more than 40 hrs and you actually have to pass. you can't keep failing till you pass. another thing is, it's not like working on ur f'in car. If you screw up, the is no pulling over to the side of the road!
The greatest pilot Quote I ever heard pertaining to maintenance was " I don't know why it taking so long to put the propeller on that A/C.....all it does is go round and round!" The guy had 30 years as a commercial pilot. Stick to driving them!! anyone can do that.

(Of course, even if there was any "pulling over to the side of the road", it wouldn't be you who had to do it, would it?)

Wow, the amount of mutual respect here is pretty impressive. Hey, I didn't know you guys only had one shot at the tests in your lifetime! That's impressive! I've always had respect for engineers, now I'm positively astonished.

I've noticed however, that people who make statements like "stick to driving them, anyone can do that" usually are speaking from some inaccurate preconceptions about what a pilot actually does from day-to-day. Just like when you hear a professional pilot badmouthing AMEs, you can assume that guy doesn't know what he's talking about either. You don't usually hear pilots making below-the-belt comments like that about AMEs. It's easy to get upset on this forum, but I would like to point out that the guy who takes a fourty-hour course is at the same professional level as the guy who performs maintenance without a license (legally) on his homebuilt ultralight. If you are a licensed M1 (or higher) AMe and you want to take the piss out of a pilot, at least pick on one who has a commercial license and the same number of years' experience as you. You can pick on me, if you like. I'm not an AME, but I get along well with the ones I work with. I'm an ATPL with over 10,000 hours, all of it in sparsely settled areas on DeHavilland aeroplanes, (just to give you some background before you start insulting me). At the moment I specialize in off-strip work in the arctic flying a twin otter on all its gear configurations, in all weather, at all times of the year. I know you're not interested in my life story, again I'm just giving you some background so you can insult me intelligently. Anyway, just because we're pals now and I can confide in you, I actually find my job kinda difficult sometimes. Since I'm also responsible for training other pilots, I can tell you that I have definitely met some people who can't do my job. Actually quite few of them. I can't tell you whether these people would have made good AME's or not; some of them are dead. I'm sure there are lots of people who wouldn't cut it as AME's either. I wouldn't know. Like I say, I like all the AMEs at my shop. They seem like good guys. I was always under the impression they thought I was a good guy too. I'm pretty sure that if some of them wanted to become professional pilots, at least some of them would eventually be able to function at my level. Say, after a few years of school, and fifteen years of flying experience. Similarly, if I wanted to become an AME, I suppose that if I participated in whatever school you guys go to, and subsequently performed the necessary apprenticeship, I would make a fine AME. Hell, I bet anyone could do it!

Jeez, I'll bet if an AME (or even just a mechanic) came onto one of the flying forums asking for advice on how to become a commercial pilot, he'd get a few polite replies, and a few more saying something like "why? you've got a decent gig already" but the open insults not just to NISS but to pilots in general on this forum are just amazing. I wasn't aware of the kind of animosity I've seen here.

[Cat Driver]

This animosity between pilots and mechanics has been around forever.

Having spent all my working life doing both jobs I can honestly say that you can not really compare the two as they are so vastly different.

If I were just starting out again and had to choose between the two I really don't know which I would choose.

As to difficulty and knowledge between the two jobs I would have to say being a mechanic would probably be the most difficult.

However no one needs to choose between the two as you can be both.

[Pat Richard]

I wasn't aware of the kind of animosity I've seen here.

It generally is not common, at least from my experience, and I would say it is less prevalent than it was 15 years ago. I do believe it is more of a "oldtimer" tradition that is dieing out.

Not really something I've ever taken much part in, although I do know individuals(both sides) to whom it is there passion in life.

Whatever.....

[Injun]

Most rotorheads would back me up in saying that the engineer-pilot relationship does not seem to suffer near as bad in rotary wing as in fixed wing. Something to do with both parties having to work for a living........(ha ha)

[Meatservo]

Doesn't seem to bad in the "Bush flying" corner of the business either. I'm glad I don't have to put up with the negative attitudes. I don't use what someone does for a living as a basis to put him down, and I work very hard at my job. I wouldn't react well to someone at work saying some of the crap I read here. I wouldn't mind studying for an AME license if I had the time, either.

[iflyforpie]

One job isn't necessarily easier or harder than the other, they are just different.

I would argue that flying is easier, being more repetitive and even emergencies practiced at least on an annual basis. But these decisions have to be made within a certain amount of time--either within a few hours before fuel runs out (weather aborts, diversions) a few minutes (engine failure during cruise, electrical failure) or a few seconds (terrain avoidance, traffic avoidance, go around, engine failure after takeoff).

As an AME, there are a lot of repetitive processes (oil change, tire change, generator change) but tons that we come up against that we haven't seen before or in a different incarnation (mis-rigged aircraft, electrical snags, engine performance problem)s. But as an AME, we can take hours or even days to mull something over if it is a real brain-buster and airworthiness is at stake.

The worst places for pilot-AME conflicts are private-GA, and 705 Operations. In private-GA, many pilots think of AMEs as people who absorb money and do little else. In 705, the two groups are segregated, so lack of mutual understanding leads to animosity.

In all other operations there is usually a close relationship between pilots and AMEs. Unfortunately this relationship is becoming more distant with more and more AOC holders choosing to have third-party maintenance rather than have their own AMO.

[Meatservo]

Where I work, many times an AME comes with us when we're going off-base for more than a few days. As a result, the AME pitches in with operation-related stuff and we of course are the only ones there to help when he is doing maintenance stuff. Most of the AMEs have a pretty good idea of the kinds of tribulations that get our heart rates going, like dealing with crappy weather, and the kind of creativity that goes into trying to find a place to land sometimes, and I'm pretty sure they all have secret opinions about who they would and would not fly with. Similarly we see them puzzling over problems with old machinery that doesn't behave the way it should, dealing with curious system problems, or just plain old having too much to fix and inspect in too little time. In an ideal world both jobs would have every procedure and every solution waiting in a book for us to look up and follow the directions. In real life the good hands are the guys who can think on their feet and we all know it. There are many differences between the two professions but there are many similarities as well. Anyone who thinks there aren't any challenges in the other guy's job is just ignorant. I've made sure for my whole time in this business to make sure to give the guys in the hangar their share of the respect, and there is a lot to go around, but I expect it in return. I earn it.

I think if a pilot wants to learn maintenance, he should be encouraged, just like anyone else who wants to learn a trade, as long as he can be expected to do it properly. In this situation, which seems to be making people angry, if the engineer working on the guy's private plane WANTS to work with him, and the owner can legitimately call himself an apprentice, then the engineer should simultaneously pay him the going rate for an apprentice and then turn around and charge him the shop rate. I guess that would be his business, but to get mad at a guy for asking if it's feasible to get an AME's license on the basis that he's stealing work from real AMEs is ludicrous, you might as well have the same anger towards all your apprentices. All pilots have had to deal with an AME who goes off and gets his private or recreational license and then spouts off about how he thinks the plane should be flown, and every AME has had to deal with some idiot pilot who thinks he knows the best way to fix stuff, but I'm not getting the sense that NISS has any intention of being "that guy". If it's not feasible just tell him it's not feasible, but uttering inflammatory epithets against all pilots is just a sign of ignorance. Unless you have done the pilot's job yourself, and I don't mean farting around in a little pisscutter, but actually doing what it takes to become the Captain of the plane, then you don't have any right to say "anyone can do it", firstly because you haven't demonstrated that you can, and secondly because it's quite (and sometimes catastrophically) obvious that there are people who are quite unsuccessful at it.

[shannon]

I think its great you want to do it. I think it can only make you a better pilot and as with any type of learning will make you a more rounded person.

[dashx]

Is it just me or is Niss actually working on his Masters in Psychology??????

Or is it possible that somewhere out there is a Pavlov mechanic drooling........or is that salivating?????

[PanEuropean]

...perhaps I should also quit flying all together?

No, no need to do that. The two occupations (pilot and AME) have very different rewards. I have been fortunate enough to have worked both sides of the fence in my career.

Flying the plane is pleasant enough and is not particularly difficult - by this I mean it is not back-breaking work. It's interesting to go to different places, to look out the window (on the occasional sunny days), and to manoeuvre the aircraft with precision.

Maintaining the plane is more of a team project than flying the plane. If you fly the plane, you work with one other person at the most, and you really can't bring a whole lot of creativity to the job. If you maintain the plane (presuming you work in a reasonably-sized facility), you work with a team of other people, and you can collaborate on projects to a much greater extent that a pilot can.

Each job has its own rewards, they are quite different, and if you have qualifications in both, you will find that there is a synergistic value to that.