Hey 2r! If you know RW well enough to spread "unofficial" rumours about him I am sure you know him well enough to have talked to him about it. Your rumour has potenial to affect his current employment given ther right conditions.
What severance do you think the boys at wasaya would ever see?
layoffs at Wasaya???
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
-
1202 hauler
- Rank 1
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:03 am
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
1202 hauler wrote:.
What severance do you think the boys at wasaya would ever see?
He said "SEVERANCE" At, where was that now? Oh yes, Wasaya! 
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
Times are tough...Look after numer one.
Last edited by pilotbc69 on Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
Just can't wait to see what can be done for all the starving "at risk" reserve inhabitants if Wasaya folds it's tents. We shall see how really essential, this garbage can of a company is.
The lesson? STOP BUYING YOUR JOBS!!!!!!
The lesson? STOP BUYING YOUR JOBS!!!!!!
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
It is sad that so many so called intelligent educated people just do not get it.
If a company treats long term core employees in a manner that lacks the dignity and respect that would ensure the continued loyalty of those who all share in the sucess of the venture .Why would they treat any employee with any respect ?
When a company allows itself to lower itself to the standards of some of the tourists who come for the hours and leave at the first opportunity then they lose any respect that such a venture should be presenting to both future employees and any investors looking at investing in such a venture.
The main problem is not going to be solved by a union .As those who own the equipment will just change the name of the company and it will start up again as NAC2 or a similar .Those who own most of the assets used in the north supply equipment to a lot of companies and they are organised and know how to sqeeze the last drop of blood out of a stone.
Respect is a two way street .To get respect you have to give it .Some employees who used northern companies as a stepping stone has jaded the management/owners.
But i will say that ANY company that treats its core backbone long term employees without the dignity and respect ,will lose their core and it will be doomed .The doom starts slowly at first with flights getting cancelled due to no crews.
As for essential work catagory.We all now that if it was truly essential; ORNGE would be doing it.At least their pilots are well paid ,well trained ,health care benefits and dental,and have a really nice pension scheme.The ORNGE pilot service contract should have been made mandatory by the LABOUR BOARD for all pilots working on government funded work(as the Australian government mandates in goverment funded work) as part of the tender contracts for any company doing medevac work or any work subsidised by the government so they could raise the bar and companies could all afford to pay a wage that would support a family.And face it folks the goverment pays for most of those flights through one of the many agencies that contribute to the development of the north.
Rant over
If a company treats long term core employees in a manner that lacks the dignity and respect that would ensure the continued loyalty of those who all share in the sucess of the venture .Why would they treat any employee with any respect ?
When a company allows itself to lower itself to the standards of some of the tourists who come for the hours and leave at the first opportunity then they lose any respect that such a venture should be presenting to both future employees and any investors looking at investing in such a venture.
The main problem is not going to be solved by a union .As those who own the equipment will just change the name of the company and it will start up again as NAC2 or a similar .Those who own most of the assets used in the north supply equipment to a lot of companies and they are organised and know how to sqeeze the last drop of blood out of a stone.
Respect is a two way street .To get respect you have to give it .Some employees who used northern companies as a stepping stone has jaded the management/owners.
But i will say that ANY company that treats its core backbone long term employees without the dignity and respect ,will lose their core and it will be doomed .The doom starts slowly at first with flights getting cancelled due to no crews.
As for essential work catagory.We all now that if it was truly essential; ORNGE would be doing it.At least their pilots are well paid ,well trained ,health care benefits and dental,and have a really nice pension scheme.The ORNGE pilot service contract should have been made mandatory by the LABOUR BOARD for all pilots working on government funded work(as the Australian government mandates in goverment funded work) as part of the tender contracts for any company doing medevac work or any work subsidised by the government so they could raise the bar and companies could all afford to pay a wage that would support a family.And face it folks the goverment pays for most of those flights through one of the many agencies that contribute to the development of the north.
Rant over
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
The replacements are being trained.
Wasaya Group trainees looking to the sky
by: Rick Garrick - Wawatay News
Find more:
Feature stories
printer friendly version
Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug’s Orion McKay is flying a Cessna 152 as part of his Wasaya Group-Sioux Lookout Area Aboriginal Management Board pilot training program.
February 4, 2010: Volume 37 #3, Page A1
“I actually just got back down 20 minutes ago,” McKay said Jan. 28 from Harv’s Air Pilot Training base in Steinbach, Manitoba. “This is my second flight I have logged in. My landings – I do good. I haven’t had any hard landings.”
McKay said he and the five other pilot trainees just finished studying meteorology and are now looking at weather maps.
“We have a big meteorology quiz coming up tomorrow morning and will be covering what we learned since we’ve been here,” McKay said. “On Mondays, Wednesday and Fridays, we come in around 8:00 a.m. We finish about 10:30-11:00 and that’s when we get to do some flying after that, weather permitting.”
On Tuesdays and Thursdays the ground school is held in the afternoon and the pilot trainees do their flight training in the late morning-early afternoon.
McKay said he had always been interested in being a pilot but didn’t have an opportunity to pursue his dream because he has never lived outside his remote community.
“Never give up on your dreams, your goals,” McKay said, explaining two months ago he never knew he would be training as a pilot. “It can change in a split second. One day you may not know which direction you will be going; the next day you have a path you will be going.
Learning about aviation
“Just keep going on that path.”
McKay and a group of 31 other trainees began the Wasaya Group-Sioux Lookout Area Aboriginal Management Board training program Jan. 18 and expect to be finished in about a year.
“This particular flight project goes hand in hand with what the mission of our company is,” said Erin Anderson, human resources co-ordinator with Wasaya Airways LP.
“We are the training vehicle for all the different positions in the flight project; they range from entry level trainee positions to management trainee positions as well as the professional positions like pilots and aircraft maintenance engineers.”
Anderson said Wasaya has always been short of First Nations staff in the pilot and aircraft maintenance engineer positions over the years.
“The overall plan for the pilots is we will assist them in finding job opportunities to build up their (flight) hours so they can eventually fly for Wasaya,” said Titus Semple, SLAAMB’s project retention counselor for the Taking Flight Project, who explained Wasaya has a high turnover rate among its pilots. “They want to retain these local First Nations people to work for the company for a long time.”
Anderson said Wasaya requires entry-level first-officer pilots to have 1,000 flying hours minimum.
Pic River’s Joe Moses said he is interested in being part of the future growth of Wasaya.
“I think it is important to have the Aboriginal population a part of that,” said Moses, a marketing and sales management trainee working at the Wasaya Group office in Fort William First Nation. “You get to work with all levels of the company, and the support comes from all levels.
“That makes it an effective program.”
“The project is unique. It is a very effective way of developing people from ground level to positions in the company of significance.”
Sandy Lake’s Lloyd Meekis is undertaking the ground operations management training at Wasaya’s ramp and cargo area in Thunder Bay.
“Today is the most coldest day of the year,” Meekis said, who had previously been working with Wasaya’s cargo department. “If you’re not dressed warm, it’s best not to be out there.”
Meekis said every day is a learning experience for him; the company and the program are allowing him to grow, learn new aspects of the transportation industry and interact with other people.
“The employees make the company, and the company does make the employees,” Meekis said. “I’m grateful to be in this industry.”
Wasaya Group trainees looking to the sky
by: Rick Garrick - Wawatay News
Find more:
Feature stories
printer friendly version
Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug’s Orion McKay is flying a Cessna 152 as part of his Wasaya Group-Sioux Lookout Area Aboriginal Management Board pilot training program.
February 4, 2010: Volume 37 #3, Page A1
“I actually just got back down 20 minutes ago,” McKay said Jan. 28 from Harv’s Air Pilot Training base in Steinbach, Manitoba. “This is my second flight I have logged in. My landings – I do good. I haven’t had any hard landings.”
McKay said he and the five other pilot trainees just finished studying meteorology and are now looking at weather maps.
“We have a big meteorology quiz coming up tomorrow morning and will be covering what we learned since we’ve been here,” McKay said. “On Mondays, Wednesday and Fridays, we come in around 8:00 a.m. We finish about 10:30-11:00 and that’s when we get to do some flying after that, weather permitting.”
On Tuesdays and Thursdays the ground school is held in the afternoon and the pilot trainees do their flight training in the late morning-early afternoon.
McKay said he had always been interested in being a pilot but didn’t have an opportunity to pursue his dream because he has never lived outside his remote community.
“Never give up on your dreams, your goals,” McKay said, explaining two months ago he never knew he would be training as a pilot. “It can change in a split second. One day you may not know which direction you will be going; the next day you have a path you will be going.
Learning about aviation
“Just keep going on that path.”
McKay and a group of 31 other trainees began the Wasaya Group-Sioux Lookout Area Aboriginal Management Board training program Jan. 18 and expect to be finished in about a year.
“This particular flight project goes hand in hand with what the mission of our company is,” said Erin Anderson, human resources co-ordinator with Wasaya Airways LP.
“We are the training vehicle for all the different positions in the flight project; they range from entry level trainee positions to management trainee positions as well as the professional positions like pilots and aircraft maintenance engineers.”
Anderson said Wasaya has always been short of First Nations staff in the pilot and aircraft maintenance engineer positions over the years.
“The overall plan for the pilots is we will assist them in finding job opportunities to build up their (flight) hours so they can eventually fly for Wasaya,” said Titus Semple, SLAAMB’s project retention counselor for the Taking Flight Project, who explained Wasaya has a high turnover rate among its pilots. “They want to retain these local First Nations people to work for the company for a long time.”
Anderson said Wasaya requires entry-level first-officer pilots to have 1,000 flying hours minimum.
Pic River’s Joe Moses said he is interested in being part of the future growth of Wasaya.
“I think it is important to have the Aboriginal population a part of that,” said Moses, a marketing and sales management trainee working at the Wasaya Group office in Fort William First Nation. “You get to work with all levels of the company, and the support comes from all levels.
“That makes it an effective program.”
“The project is unique. It is a very effective way of developing people from ground level to positions in the company of significance.”
Sandy Lake’s Lloyd Meekis is undertaking the ground operations management training at Wasaya’s ramp and cargo area in Thunder Bay.
“Today is the most coldest day of the year,” Meekis said, who had previously been working with Wasaya’s cargo department. “If you’re not dressed warm, it’s best not to be out there.”
Meekis said every day is a learning experience for him; the company and the program are allowing him to grow, learn new aspects of the transportation industry and interact with other people.
“The employees make the company, and the company does make the employees,” Meekis said. “I’m grateful to be in this industry.”
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
Phew.....I don't live under any of their routes...
Makes me think of a Monty Python skit....
Makes me think of a Monty Python skit....
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
It is proof that there is absolutly zero effective co-ordination ,correlation or collaboration between various government departments to make any defence of working pilots.
As one group of pilots is shown the door .One government department will be paying them EI if they qualify.While another government department is funding the training of their replacements.
It is Marxism as the Marx Bros (Groucho+co) would have done it.
As one group of pilots is shown the door .One government department will be paying them EI if they qualify.While another government department is funding the training of their replacements.
It is Marxism as the Marx Bros (Groucho+co) would have done it.
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
I'm happy to see that Wasaya is involved in bringing future pilots and maintenance engineers from northern communities. Ultimately this is one way for showing many of these kids from the north that they can accomplish anything. They just need to take the leap of faith and pursue their dreams of a better life. Many of us understand how critical the situation is with the youth in northern communities and they need positive role models. But for these pilots to get those 1000 flying hours will mean them being bonded to Wasaya in other ways for many years. Unless they plan to bring back the apprentice pilot program. I wonder...“The overall plan for the pilots is we will assist them in finding job opportunities to build up their (flight) hours so they can eventually fly for Wasaya,” said Titus Semple, SLAAMB’s project retention counselor for the Taking Flight Project, who explained Wasaya has a high turnover rate among its pilots. “They want to retain these local First Nations people to work for the company for a long time.”
As long as these guys have a level head on their shoulders are focused and willing to put in an effort they will all be welcomed to the team with open arms (as is every hard working professional).
I do however have some concern with the quote about Wasaya wanting to retain these local pilots to work for the company for the long term. Well what about the rest of us? People who have poured their heart and soul into this job for many years and were willing to stay and help build on its success. They have been forgotten and lost in this fight over who is "doing it right" and who is "doing it wrong" blame game.
What would have fixed it in the first place? Communication, better training, a real SMS program and leadership that cares about its employees. But we may be faced with a shortage of people when the industry opens up again. No one is wanting to stay, not even the "lifers".
So my suggestion. Find a way to start repairing the damage inside before worrying about how you look on the outside. All it takes once in a while is a thank you and some mutual respect.
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
You must be kidding me!!!! I wonder how much their bonds will be. Oh wait a minute...they are getting their training paid for and getting help to find jobs while others in the same company that have been there for years are being laid off. I hope the native pilots/engineers and ground crew do well and stick with it. I have complete faith that they will do well if they keep with it, they are just taking an opportunity that is prresented to them. I also hope they leave for greener pastures a month after they get the jobs that are being held for them.
It makes sense to train pilots as there aren't many pilots looking for work right now. There are lots of vacancies out there so lets hurry to train more people to fill the spots.
It makes sense to train pilots as there aren't many pilots looking for work right now. There are lots of vacancies out there so lets hurry to train more people to fill the spots.
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
Maybe its all about your DNA and the entrenched misguided Indian Act?
Politicians and band chiefs do profit from it though.
Politicians and band chiefs do profit from it though.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
The whole thing falls somewhere between "warm and fuzzy" great idea, and totally racist.
If a company were laying off natives, and hiring/training white guys, there would be much flinging of poo.
It gets down to equal rights for all Canadians....? Perhaps not.
At the same time, if there was any need at all to train more pilots, it'd be a wonderful idea.
I'm confused.
If a company were laying off natives, and hiring/training white guys, there would be much flinging of poo.
It gets down to equal rights for all Canadians....? Perhaps not.
At the same time, if there was any need at all to train more pilots, it'd be a wonderful idea.
I'm confused.
-
thecaptain
- Rank 2
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:30 pm
- Location: Somewhere between HERE and THERE
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
+1 to that... wish I could say more. Wonder how the 13 folks who got laid off feel about it?Doc wrote:The whole thing falls somewhere between "warm and fuzzy" great idea, and totally racist.
If a company were laying off natives, and hiring/training white guys, there would be much flinging of poo.
It gets down to equal rights for all Canadians....? Perhaps not.
At the same time, if there was any need at all to train more pilots, it'd be a wonderful idea.
I'm confused.
-
flyinthebug
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1686
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:36 am
- Location: CYPA
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
We tried a similiar idea in SK and worked in cooperation with the PAGC and hand picked 10 (northern community) students for the First Nations Flying School. It was launched in 2001 and of the 10 students that started, we were pleased that 2 made it to CPL/Multi/IFR. One of the pilots came to work for our charter service and one went to a float op in BC. Im very pleased to announce that both are still working in our industry and at least one has been progressing in a timely manner. Im proud of the work we did back then and its good to see Wasaya sponsering these potential pilots.
I understand what your saying Doc and we kinda felt the same way.. Was it warm and fuzzy or terribly racist?.. Either way, we turned out 2 very capable pilots who would have otherwise never been given the opportunity.
Fly safe all
I understand what your saying Doc and we kinda felt the same way.. Was it warm and fuzzy or terribly racist?.. Either way, we turned out 2 very capable pilots who would have otherwise never been given the opportunity.
Fly safe all
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
One can find underprivileged young people in every walk of life, that would "otherwise never been given the opportunity". Any method of selection would sit better than a "race" requirement?flyinthebug wrote: Either way, we turned out 2 very capable pilots who would have otherwise never been given the opportunity.
Who funds these things? Wasaya? Right after lay offs? The tax payers? That's my guess, after a much watered down "trail". It's not like the NAACP, our the United Negro College Fund? Funds raised by "our" people, for "our" people?
I fully expect this to get "sanitized", but I think these are valid concerns? It would certainly be frowned on in any other segment of society.
-
flyinthebug
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1686
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:36 am
- Location: CYPA
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
All valid concerns Doc. In our case, yes it was the government that funded the approx 400K to train these 10 candidates. It was sad to watch 8 people walk away from their "golden egg"..and even sadder when we realized that 75% of the money spent, was wasted on people that didnt even want to give an effort.
My personal feelings dont really matter in this regard.
If they pick well and truly find those that WANT this, then they may have better sucess then we did. That said, I am proud of the job we did to get at least 2 of the 10 through to CPL. According to some of our instructors, it was an uphill battle all the way in 9 of 10 cases. I wish Wasaya well with their new venture..and hope they use some tried and true psy-evoc`s to determine the best suited for this opportunity and with the best chance of suceeding. When you bring 10 people down from the north and send 8 back home... it just doesnt give everyone that sense of accomplishment that it should!
All this said.. isnt this kinda the WRONG time for Wasaya to announce this? After laying off 13 crew members? Wouldnt you think that Wasaya would bring back their laid-off first, before announcing they were sponsering this venture? Typical of Wasaya management...but I do wish them well with this endeavour.
Fly safe all.
My personal feelings dont really matter in this regard.
If they pick well and truly find those that WANT this, then they may have better sucess then we did. That said, I am proud of the job we did to get at least 2 of the 10 through to CPL. According to some of our instructors, it was an uphill battle all the way in 9 of 10 cases. I wish Wasaya well with their new venture..and hope they use some tried and true psy-evoc`s to determine the best suited for this opportunity and with the best chance of suceeding. When you bring 10 people down from the north and send 8 back home... it just doesnt give everyone that sense of accomplishment that it should!
All this said.. isnt this kinda the WRONG time for Wasaya to announce this? After laying off 13 crew members? Wouldnt you think that Wasaya would bring back their laid-off first, before announcing they were sponsering this venture? Typical of Wasaya management...but I do wish them well with this endeavour.
Fly safe all.
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
Your example is a little different than Wasaya's, with direct government funding etc.flyinthebug wrote:All valid concerns Doc. In our case, yes it was the government that funded the approx 400K to train these 10 candidates. It was sad to watch 8 people walk away from their "golden egg"..and even sadder when we realized that 75% of the money spent, was wasted on people that didnt even want to give an effort.
My personal feelings dont really matter in this regard.
If they pick well and truly find those that WANT this, then they may have better sucess then we did. That said, I am proud of the job we did to get at least 2 of the 10 through to CPL. According to some of our instructors, it was an uphill battle all the way in 9 of 10 cases. I wish Wasaya well with their new venture..and hope they use some tried and true psy-evoc`s to determine the best suited for this opportunity and with the best chance of suceeding. When you bring 10 people down from the north and send 8 back home... it just doesnt give everyone that sense of accomplishment that it should!
All this said.. isnt this kinda the WRONG time for Wasaya to announce this? After laying off 13 crew members? Wouldnt you think that Wasaya would bring back their laid-off first, before announcing they were sponsering this venture? Typical of Wasaya management...but I do wish them well with this endeavour.
Fly safe all.
Your numbers don't surprise me, though. 80% drop out rate. If it doesn't cost YOU anything, it reduces the VALUE. Examples of this line of thinking are rampant throughout the north. If something is FREE it gets no respect. This is seen constantly in the form of graffiti on buildings, broken car/truck windows. There is no respect for anything you didn't have to contribute something for.
The many thousands of $$ (hundreds of thousands, more like it) that Wasaya is seemingly willing to pump into this, will net them a very piss poor return on their (tax payers? You and I?) investment.
I for one, hope it falls flat on it's face, because it's racist as Hell.
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
It sounds like an excellent program and well worth the investme...........excuse
me I think I'm going to be sick.
me I think I'm going to be sick.
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
Are you freakin kidding me? Best of luck in their endevors? Lets just up and forget the 80% failure rate that you just mentioned. "My personal feelings dont really matter in this regard." What!?! Its your freakin tax dollars, of course they matter, your just too timid/lazy/afraid(Otherwise known as a p*ssy) to say or do anything about it. You've hit the nail on the head on this one stating this is a poor time to mention training of new pilots when they are laying off others. Favortism? Racism? Both if you ask me. Training new pilots due to the high turnover rate? Well Duh! Thats what happens when your 748 drivers are making less than some bus drivers in Toronto, and they aren't unloading 13'000lbs of freight at every stop I'll bet, might I mention for free at that. Don't even want to take a guess at what the rest of their pilots are making, probably less than their counter agents would be my guess. How pathetic is that. And they wonder why they can't retain pilots, give me a break. What about that essential service thing? Doesn't food and fuel count as essential service? But thats ok, we'll just shut down that part of the operation cause, well, we can. What a load of crock. Word from the little bird has informed me that a so called Europian/Canadian/American colored man was removed from his post there because he was cracking down on all the various 'expense accounts', and making them liable for excessive spending in certain areas. So of course, he had to go, how dare him take away my company Envoy and make me pay for gas, how dare him!
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
edited
Last edited by pilotbc69 on Sun May 02, 2010 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
Just to be fair, the Training Program was announced months before the lay offs but the math works; 13 for 13.
-
WaldoPepper
- Rank 1
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 12:18 pm
Re: layoffs at Wasaya???
Dash 8 is showing up June 1st. Don't hold your breath about flying it though. The crew is trained up ready to go. No one's too happy about who they are...
