First Air

cedar · Post by **cedar** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:46 am

Would like to hear from First Air or previous guys/gals that have flown with them. Interested in bases, time required for ATR, 727 etc. Pay, lifestyle. Any comments would be great. Thanks

backon3 · Post by **backon3** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:32 pm

Requirements are minimal I think, only 250 for the 727 SO and ATR is 1500 TT. I don't think they are hiring anytime soon or have hired outside for a while. They were looking at a couple of guys last fall, but the Dash 7 lay-offs took care off that.

water wings · Post by **water wings** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:16 pm

hey. Worked there for 7 years (non flying) and still do part time stuff, so this is fairly accurate information....Bases are YEG, YOW and YZF with rotation out of YFB. Only types are one Herc, 727, 737 ATRs replacing the HS748. Great crews and overall OK place to be...like any place, some hosers in the upper echelons.
now the bad news for lowtimers
the mins USED to be 300 for SO on the 727. They are now 1500+ minimum and one of the flight engineers doesn't think the new high time SOs will actually get to fly.
They tend not to hire SOs from within anymore (from cargo etc..) Last flying pilot they hired was from outside and had a full currency with quite a few hours (2000+) on a 748. (this was about a year ago) The last SO they hired had almost 3000 hours. I do not know what the mins for direct entry right seat 737 0r 727 are...my friend was hired with just a little corporate jet time, but lots of turbine. These positions do go to bid within the company first.
The last class of lucky lowtimers are now in the right seat of the ATR, getting trapped in the "No PIC time" scenario. They moved up finally after up to 3+ years as SO, interspersed with 2 or 3 layoffs...Quite a few did not return after being laid off.
One of the last people to go right seat ATR was sent back to SO after moving his family to YZF
Ummm. the sale of the Twin Otters about 4 years ago put an end to the low time requirements. The 727s are on their way out, slowly but surely. Not much movement anymore, although there was a brief exodus for West Jet last year...that passed.
What else can i tell you...their website is soooo out of date...they still have the old requirements and even have the G1 and even the Beaver as being in the fleet; that baby sold years ago along with the twotters. Don't bother with it.
Used to be a great stepping stone from 2 years as SO, then right seat twin and so on. Times have changed.
The Dash 7 contract will most likely be renewed. The crew is still current and able.
If you have the patience, and you like to be home every night in the case of the jets, or in the case of rotation, live where the hell you want, it's worth it. However, you could be sitting sideways for an undertermined amount of time at 2000+ hours.
hope this helps.
18006613591 is the YOW hangar. Ask for flight ops.
WW

scotothedoublet · Post by **scotothedoublet** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:30 pm

WW

Do you have a rough idea what pay is like? Good post.

TT

water wings · Post by **water wings** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:42 pm

not precisely...it can't be too bad if there are guys (and girls) sticking around for 20+ years until retirement, but that may have to do more with lifestyle. I am guessing it starts at 23-ish for SO, then up to 120 for jet Captain. I recall yapping around the bar about this, but memory is foggy...as it usually becomes at the bar...

The longer you stay there, the better, (First Air, not the bar) but it does vary with the type of AC flown.
sorry couldn't be more accurate...maybe i'll make some calls and post it on the salary forum. nosy parker that i am.
cheers

Arthur Q · Post by **Arthur Q** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:10 pm

water wings

like scotothedoublet said excellent post. It nice to see someone take the time and write some meaningful information.

Instead of writing "look it up yourself"

Keep up the good work!

Cool Rythms! · Post by **Cool Rythms!** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:47 am

What's scheduling like WW? How many days on/off each month. Is it a good schedule for commuters? When I was at KFA, I had a pretty decent schedule. And of course, it got better the longer you stayed. I was home in Montreal quite often.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:52 am

Their scheduling has alot to be desired. They're still using pencil and paper, for a group of pilots numbering about 150 last i checked. Their scheduling is reminiscent of the old bush flying days... everyone show up at the dock in the morning, and we'll send home whoever we don't need today.

If it wasn't for the scheduling, it would have been a lot tougher decision to move on. The western bases were full of great people, and luckily, the easterners didn't bother us too much. Because of the location of the bases, and the history at first air, it is like 2 different companies. Like night and day.

yxy · Post by **yxy** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:47 pm

First Air is a good airline to work for. I know many people would say otherwise but they pay good, are flexible and won't just close their doors and shut the whole thing down..............like a few other airlines have.

They recently have been extra nice with how they helped out the families of the YZF firefighter victims.

Arctic Icarus · Post by **Arctic Icarus** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:07 pm

First Air is an excellent airline to work for. As with any company it has it's problems but all-in-all there are a lot of positives.

As for the S/O position it still officially hasn't changed from 300hrs but I do know that they do look for at least 1500hrs. This is because they think it would be easier to transition to the ATR. As for the salary, I think it may be a little bit more than $23k. Once you get on the ATR the pay is much better especially if you live in YZF ($45K - $55K)

The Dash-7 is finished at this time but most of those guys took the lay-off since they were close to retirement. One guy did take an open Herc postion. I haven't heard anything about the Dash-7 coming back online anytime soon though.

Unless something changes, I can't see any direct entry right seat positions for the 737 or 727. There were in the past when there was work over in europe but unfortunately that ended a few years back.

Even though schedules are made with pencil and paper, it means that you can ask for time off whenever and they will try their hardest to accommodate you. Also the lifestyle is great because you will more than likely be home every night, except for the YFB crews but they get two weeks off after two weeks up north. I really can't see how this can be so bad.

The S/O that moved his family up to YZF for the ATR did go back to the 727 for a short stint to help fill in until some new S/O's get trained. They even made him a training guy for a sort time to earn some extra cash. He is back up in YZF now happily flying the ATR.

Hope this helps.

C-150Pilot · Post by **C-150Pilot** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:13 pm

Good post

Cool Rythms! · Post by **Cool Rythms!** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:33 pm

Doesn't sound too bad at all. I don't recall ever having two weeks off when I was at KFA. Except maybe the first year I was there, due to limited flying and too many S/O's at the time. After that, I think the most days off in a row I had was around 8 or 9. During my last couple of months there, they were short on S/O's, so I barely saw Montreal, except for the odd weekend, if I wasn't doing any off base flying. But in general, I had a pretty decent commuting schedule.

Does First Air plan to pursue anymore European flying contracts in the future?

yxy · Post by **yxy** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:02 pm

Depends on whether or not the rumour of First Air's new aircraft are true..............

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:57 pm

what? the 757 rumor still persists? or 767's now!

Cool Rythms! · Post by **Cool Rythms!** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:55 am

757's ? 767's? Interesting.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:55 am

haha, that'll flood the office with resumes!

But seriously though, they need to replace the 727's sooner than later, and I'm sure they're trying to find a viable alternative. There was a rumor going around there that they wanted to get 757's with a big cargo door, but I'm pretty sure it's been a mothballed idea.

yxy · Post by **yxy** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:26 pm

I never heard about any 757's........767 would be their choice. I'm told that the shopping has begun.

basler · Post by **basler** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:32 pm

767 is that for the Yellowknife-Hay River-Prague run

yxy · Post by **yxy** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:19 pm

basler wrote:767 is that for the Yellowknife-Hay River-Prague run

????

Arctic Icarus · Post by **Arctic Icarus** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:48 pm

As for the 757, it was looked at for a replacement for the 727 combi's but I'm not too sure what is happening with that lately.

The 767 or another widebody aircraft will be a dedicated cargo aircraft to replace the 727 freighter. If they do get it, maybe they'll get some overseas work again but I don't think it would be based there like the 727's were.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

cedar · Post by **cedar** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:30 am

waterwings very informative, thanks for taking the time to reply. Just got home at 3a.m. Had a chance to read everything. Just curious what kind of contract work do Dash 7 do, how many hours do the guys fly etc. Thanks again.

water wings · Post by **water wings** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:52 am

The Dash 7 was the governement ice patrol..Arctic Icarus might be more in the know...i heard about 5 months ago that the contract MAY be renewed...could have been optimism on the source's behalf.
Aside from crew sched working with an Abacus to figure the hours out, i will agree with the others, overall good place to work. If my forray into flying doesn't work, i may even return there to my old non flying job.
good friends make great crews.
cheers, good luck.
fly safe

Arctic Icarus · Post by **Arctic Icarus** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:41 am

Haven't heard anything about the Dash-7 coming back online lately but anything can happen very quickly in this industry. It was a government contract with the governments Dash-7 for ice patrol. It sounded like a nice job, two weeks on two weeks off, you could live anywhere, flying out of Resolute Bay in the summer and P.E.I. in the winter. I believed the guys logged about 300-500hours a year. Day VFR low level flying.

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:43 pm

I spoke to a friend in ops there today and asked about the -7. It hasn't been operated by them for over a year now. Apparently they were approached to operate it for a short term contract, summer probably, but it didn't materialize.

There is also talk about a -8 being outfitted to replace the -7 to do the ice patrol, but no idea as to who the operator would be.