I risk starting a thread that degenerates into a debate on the lack of respect and responsibility of our western society these days, but here goes anyways...
As my travels see me usually going as a non-rev employee, as a courtesy to the "real" passengers I tend to not rush off the plane at destination. It irks me to see what messes passengers leave behind. I have never felt compelled to litter in a cab, hotel shuttle, or bus. What gives folks the sense of entitlement, for lack of better word, to leave a mess behind in a plane?
I first noticed this phenomenon doing charters in northern Ontario. The "higher" the rank of the passenger, the messier the plane seemed to be afterward. I do not recall, for example a Bell technician being sent to work leaving a mess. I never had a mess to clean when bringing loggers home from a BC forestry camp for the weekend. I did have messes left by an MP and his party, and an Ontario MPP and his group.
Yes, there are staff that clean the plane between flights. It's no huge feat of courtesy to hand your newspaper to the FA when they pass through the cabin collecting the papers. Would you knowingly dump your newspaper and empty coffee cup for your cabbie to clean? I doubt it. The only thing close I can draw a similarity to is peanut shells and beer cups at the ball park, but that has been going on for decades.
I am sure there are some folks wise in the ways of the mind that have some theories to share.
Passengers can be such pigs
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Captain S itmagnet
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Re: Passengers can be such pigs
It always amazes me as well what a mess the cabin is after a flight,,,,,,,,,
We pass through the cabin countless times collecting trash so there is no excuse for people to leave a mess in their seating area.
Who knows why they do it, inconsiderate, poor upbringing, thoughtlessness, laziness, tired, etc., Some pax are very good though and go to great lengths to gather up all their garbage and give it to us in the bag their blanket came in. They get a very nice smile and thank you.
We pass through the cabin countless times collecting trash so there is no excuse for people to leave a mess in their seating area.
Who knows why they do it, inconsiderate, poor upbringing, thoughtlessness, laziness, tired, etc., Some pax are very good though and go to great lengths to gather up all their garbage and give it to us in the bag their blanket came in. They get a very nice smile and thank you.
Re: Passengers can be such pigs
I used to love picking up chicken bones from between the seat and the wall, anyone who flew around the north knows this. But the other day, while deadheading, I went to release my seatbelt and some asshole stuck thier gum on the underside of the buckle release. I really couldn't believe it, I think I had flashbacks to my northern days, I may have post northern stress syndrome. Seeking help now.
P.S. This was on an RJ, not some bush operation. So I guess when you bring airfares down so that anyone can afford to fly this is what happens. If I'm sitting up front and smell KFC coming on board I fully expect to have a relapse
P.S. This was on an RJ, not some bush operation. So I guess when you bring airfares down so that anyone can afford to fly this is what happens. If I'm sitting up front and smell KFC coming on board I fully expect to have a relapse
"Stand-by, I'm inverted"
Re: Passengers can be such pigs
There will always be some inconsiderate people. The problem comes when the majority act in such a manner. Long before then it is time to ask why. Could the way air pax treat the air travel industry be in some way related to the way the air travel industry treats its customers? Remember it is the whole experience that counts from first trying to find out the fares/flight times/baggage allowances/check in times/etc. when considering a journey to leaving the arrival airport on time with, hopefully, all of one's undamaged luggage.
There are far too many negative comments on Avcanada and other forums from posters who have an attitude problem towards the air travel industry's customers and particularly towards any who have the guts to complain about poor service or abusive treatment. Such posters should remember that the air transport industry and associated government agencies exist to serve the customers, not vice versa. They should remember that the customers are the reasons for the air transport jobs and that the customers pay the wages.
It's time to cut out this "shoot the messenger" attitude and identify and solve the real problems. There are endless reports of so-called "air rage" and of angry air passengers. Instead of addressing the problems it seems that any time a passenger/customer complains, abusive airline personnel or security bullies call it air rage or terrorism and often insolently deprive the complainant of their right to fly. In the face of such treatment it is not surprising that so many pax have nothing but contempt for the air travel industry and its employees.
There are remarkably few reports of train rage on the railways, coach rage on Greyhound and European equivalents or ferry rage on BC Ferries or Cross Channel ferries. These other forms of transport are doing something right that the air travel industry is not. How is it that so many are unable to comprehend this or do understand it but have another agenda?
It should be obvious that the answer is for the air travel industry to treat its customers with the same respect and level of service as these other forms of transport have shown are both possible and practical! The pax, with those few aforementioned exceptions, will then in turn again begin to show the same sort of respect towards the air travel industry and its employees. Once upon a time air travel was considered exotic and pilots and air hostesses were looked up to. Although this will never return to the same extent there is much that the air travel industry can and should do to improve the whole air travel experience. If it wants respect it has to earn it!
There are far too many negative comments on Avcanada and other forums from posters who have an attitude problem towards the air travel industry's customers and particularly towards any who have the guts to complain about poor service or abusive treatment. Such posters should remember that the air transport industry and associated government agencies exist to serve the customers, not vice versa. They should remember that the customers are the reasons for the air transport jobs and that the customers pay the wages.
It's time to cut out this "shoot the messenger" attitude and identify and solve the real problems. There are endless reports of so-called "air rage" and of angry air passengers. Instead of addressing the problems it seems that any time a passenger/customer complains, abusive airline personnel or security bullies call it air rage or terrorism and often insolently deprive the complainant of their right to fly. In the face of such treatment it is not surprising that so many pax have nothing but contempt for the air travel industry and its employees.
There are remarkably few reports of train rage on the railways, coach rage on Greyhound and European equivalents or ferry rage on BC Ferries or Cross Channel ferries. These other forms of transport are doing something right that the air travel industry is not. How is it that so many are unable to comprehend this or do understand it but have another agenda?
It should be obvious that the answer is for the air travel industry to treat its customers with the same respect and level of service as these other forms of transport have shown are both possible and practical! The pax, with those few aforementioned exceptions, will then in turn again begin to show the same sort of respect towards the air travel industry and its employees. Once upon a time air travel was considered exotic and pilots and air hostesses were looked up to. Although this will never return to the same extent there is much that the air travel industry can and should do to improve the whole air travel experience. If it wants respect it has to earn it!
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TyrellCorp
- Rank 3
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- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:56 am
- Location: Why Why Zed
Re: Passengers can be such pigs
You hit the nail on the head my friend. Essentially what we have done with the help of low cost carriers is to Walmartize airtravel. When these no frills airlines try so hard to come down to the level of the lowest common denominator and cater to them, what can you expect. I remember when I first started travelling that people dressed up to go flying and it was considered a classy affair altogether. Long gone are those days. Oh well!mbav8r wrote:So I guess when you bring airfares down so that anyone can afford to fly this is what happens.
"Nothing is worse than having an itch you can never scratch"
Re: Passengers can be such pigs
Carrier wrote: There are remarkably few reports of train rage on the railways, coach rage on Greyhound and European equivalents or ferry rage on BC Ferries or Cross Channel ferries. These other forms of transport are doing something right that the air travel industry is not. How is it that so many are unable to comprehend this or do understand it but have another agenda?
Nah, nothing happens on Greyhound how soon we forget.
No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message. However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.
Re: Passengers can be such pigs
last month I stood at the bottom of the stairs to see off my PAX (as per) and was handed a ziplock bag full of urine.....he then proceeded to tell me that the flight was too long (30 min) and that there should be a lav on board......Gotta love flying up north!
Re: Passengers can be such pigs
Haa, so a 30-minute flight is "too long"? Sheesh, and I thought I had the weenie bladder syndrome.
I don't honestly know why people can be such slobs, and be so inconsiderate, but I can't help but think that they've never had to pick up after anyone else in their lives. Most people who've worked jobs where they've waited on others in any way, tend to treat people in similar service industries much more politely, and courteously.
There's no reason for treating anyone badly, when it comes right down to it.
I don't honestly know why people can be such slobs, and be so inconsiderate, but I can't help but think that they've never had to pick up after anyone else in their lives. Most people who've worked jobs where they've waited on others in any way, tend to treat people in similar service industries much more politely, and courteously.
There's no reason for treating anyone badly, when it comes right down to it.
Re: Passengers can be such pigs
I can see a couple reasons why a person would leave a mess. They are paying for there meals now, its delivered to them in their chair. When you are at a restaurant where your meal is delivered, somebody else cleans up your mess. At Mcdonalds your mess is felt to be your own and you dispose of it as such. I'm not sure if its a function of the price of the meal or the setting but there would seem to be a connection.
The other thing is the way passengers are treated in the air travel system, I can see where a little passive aggression would feel gratifying.
The other thing is the way passengers are treated in the air travel system, I can see where a little passive aggression would feel gratifying.
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Darkwing Duck
- Rank 6
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Re: Passengers can be such pigs
I have a couple of instances when passengers were very rude and inconsiderate. When I was working the ramp at an FBO I marshalled in a Navajo. Went to the back door to greet the pax as they come off and one guy jumped out and ran around to the other side of the aircraft. Thinking he was going into the wing lockers for bags I never gave it much thought until I saw a puddle forming at his feet. I asked him if the flight was that long that he couldn't wait to play with himself Then I tied into him, 1st off for being inconsiderate and acting like a child that he could not go into the FBO and relieve himself instead of on my ramp. I also told him that a child would of had a better grasp on his bladder control. He gave me the excuse of too many beers and I said you should of realized that before you started drinking on an airplane without a lav.
I have also had to dispose of coolers that were used as a container for bodily fluids. I am sure many flight crews have done the same.
Flying from Dubai to Kabul also opened my eyes. Sitting in business class I had a very good view of the lavs from where I was sitting. But I got more then expected when the user leaves the door banging open in the wind, per se, and squats, not sits but squats, on the toilet.
Same flight, after our meal the man sitting across from me, takes his trash and with his arm clears his tray onto the floor. The FA tore him a new asshole. Good on her.
As my mom used to say, "Some people's kids."
I have also had to dispose of coolers that were used as a container for bodily fluids. I am sure many flight crews have done the same.
Flying from Dubai to Kabul also opened my eyes. Sitting in business class I had a very good view of the lavs from where I was sitting. But I got more then expected when the user leaves the door banging open in the wind, per se, and squats, not sits but squats, on the toilet.
Same flight, after our meal the man sitting across from me, takes his trash and with his arm clears his tray onto the floor. The FA tore him a new asshole. Good on her.
As my mom used to say, "Some people's kids."
Kowalski: Sir, we may be out of fuel.
Skipper: What makes you think that?
Kowalski: We've lost engine one, and engine two is no longer on fire.
Skipper: What makes you think that?
Kowalski: We've lost engine one, and engine two is no longer on fire.
Re: Passengers can be such pigs
Ah brings a tear to my eye...
The good old days........being up north and doing charters.....
We used to go up and down the aisle collecting trash (well I got the FA's to do it and i would try to compact it into the joke of a garbage container). And we'd still find s-hit after. But at least we tried.
The cabin crew has a schedule and they stick to it. I don't see them walking around collecting trash like it was gold. But.....this has been my recent experience.
You get your snack. They collect. You get your drink then your meal. They collect. You continue to fly and they collect trash. If you have a pulse and you care you give them your trash. they troll the aisles usually on a regular basis. What that schedule is I couldn't tell you. But they do that as well as offering water.
And BTW the business class/first class usually looks like a hurricane blew through it when we exit.
And in how many languages do you want announcements regarding collecting garbage?
I had a friend and he always made a mess at McDonalds. His excuse was that it was job creation. Ya ok.....
I work with a group of pilots now and when one of them thought the maid didn't clean his room properly made an even bigger mess to "teach" her a lesson.....
It takes all kinds.
We just have to remember that we don't live in a sanitized world.
But you know what pisses me more this? Cigarette butts out of car windows at highway speeds....
Now there's someting to bitch about.....
The good old days........being up north and doing charters.....
We used to go up and down the aisle collecting trash (well I got the FA's to do it and i would try to compact it into the joke of a garbage container). And we'd still find s-hit after. But at least we tried.
The cabin crew has a schedule and they stick to it. I don't see them walking around collecting trash like it was gold. But.....this has been my recent experience.
You get your snack. They collect. You get your drink then your meal. They collect. You continue to fly and they collect trash. If you have a pulse and you care you give them your trash. they troll the aisles usually on a regular basis. What that schedule is I couldn't tell you. But they do that as well as offering water.
And BTW the business class/first class usually looks like a hurricane blew through it when we exit.
And in how many languages do you want announcements regarding collecting garbage?
I had a friend and he always made a mess at McDonalds. His excuse was that it was job creation. Ya ok.....
I work with a group of pilots now and when one of them thought the maid didn't clean his room properly made an even bigger mess to "teach" her a lesson.....
It takes all kinds.
We just have to remember that we don't live in a sanitized world.
But you know what pisses me more this? Cigarette butts out of car windows at highway speeds....
Now there's someting to bitch about.....
Re: Passengers can be such pigs
The worst mess I can remember was coming out of Lagos to LHR. When I departed the ac it was like a bomb went off, blankets and food and you name it scattered all over the floor and seats. At first I thought it was done on purpose for some reason but no.
Re: Passengers can be such pigs
What it boils down to is there is a serious lack of common courtesy these days, and it's only getting worse with the new generation of spoiled, ungrateful, undisciplined kids.
We live in a society of political correctness and fear of telling the customer that they (or their kids) are being unreasonable and to suck it up. Listening to our quests rip into a CSA and demand a first class ticket on Air Canada because they missed their connection, overlooking the fact it was due to weather, makes me think we should have public spankings and/or require a license to reproduce.
Forget the mess these slobs leave behind for me to clean up.
I am truly grateful that people are traveling and keeping me employed and that above examples are the exception not the rule. It is becoming more common though.
We live in a society of political correctness and fear of telling the customer that they (or their kids) are being unreasonable and to suck it up. Listening to our quests rip into a CSA and demand a first class ticket on Air Canada because they missed their connection, overlooking the fact it was due to weather, makes me think we should have public spankings and/or require a license to reproduce.
Forget the mess these slobs leave behind for me to clean up.
I am truly grateful that people are traveling and keeping me employed and that above examples are the exception not the rule. It is becoming more common though.
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Re: Passengers can be such pigs
Without a doubt the worst passengers I had for destroying the cabin in less than 2 hours were the rich and famous baseball players I used to cart around in a Lear. The disaster zone was directly proportional to the amount of money they made.
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countryhick
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Re: Passengers can be such pigs
The worst mess I have come across was left by an employee and his family, who had graciously been given J class seats. Looked like a tornado, food, wipes, diapers, shredded paper.........
Bad enough for pictures to be taken and sent to this person's manager!!
You get all kinds, I have had a very wealthy individual tidy up the cabin while we were outside putting the a/c to bed for the night!!
Bad enough for pictures to be taken and sent to this person's manager!!
You get all kinds, I have had a very wealthy individual tidy up the cabin while we were outside putting the a/c to bed for the night!!
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Tiger Moth
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Re: Passengers can be such pigs
Just wait until you are cleaning an airplane (navajo) and stuffed down between the seat and the wall is a very used diaper....
*barf*
Ended up with two messes to clean up.
*barf*
Ended up with two messes to clean up.
Good topic
Good topic, worthy of reply! I have seen my fair share of pax being pigs.... the worst was up north with chips bags, gum, full diapers, bottles and a few other yummy things like old tampons... I used to just let the machine sit overnight after the last leg.... it was so much easier to remove a full diaper when it is -45 degrees C.... However, now that the masses are flying on such airlines as Ryanair... the 'plebs' tend to leave a mess behind as well too! The real disgusting thing is seeing a family board a Ryanair flight were the husband is in shorts, and an armless undershirt scratching his nuts and his wife (who is dressed similarly) yelling at the kids... where every second word was F******... and to top it all off they were all in flip flops!! Absolutely unbelievable.... but the reality is that all walks of life are out and about… I believe that there should be dress codes… just like there was when I was a kid!!
6to8
6to8
Re: Good topic
I dodn't know Ryanair flew in the southern states? Where did they get those people from?Dhc6to8 wrote:Good topic, worthy of reply! I have seen my fair share of pax being pigs.... the worst was up north with chips bags, gum, full diapers, bottles and a few other yummy things like old tampons... I used to just let the machine sit overnight after the last leg.... it was so much easier to remove a full diaper when it is -45 degrees C.... However, now that the masses are flying on such airlines as Ryanair... the 'plebs' tend to leave a mess behind as well too! The real disgusting thing is seeing a family board a Ryanair flight were the husband is in shorts, and an armless undershirt scratching his nuts and his wife (who is dressed similarly) yelling at the kids... where every second word was F******... and to top it all off they were all in flip flops!! Absolutely unbelievable.... but the reality is that all walks of life are out and about… I believe that there should be dress codes… just like there was when I was a kid!!
6to8
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Jaques Strappe
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Re: Passengers can be such pigs
CarrierCarrier wrote:There will always be some inconsiderate people. The problem comes when the majority act in such a manner. Long before then it is time to ask why. Could the way air pax treat the air travel industry be in some way related to the way the air travel industry treats its customers? Remember it is the whole experience that counts from first trying to find out the fares/flight times/baggage allowances/check in times/etc. when considering a journey to leaving the arrival airport on time with, hopefully, all of one's undamaged luggage.
There are far too many negative comments on Avcanada and other forums from posters who have an attitude problem towards the air travel industry's customers and particularly towards any who have the guts to complain about poor service or abusive treatment. Such posters should remember that the air transport industry and associated government agencies exist to serve the customers, not vice versa. They should remember that the customers are the reasons for the air transport jobs and that the customers pay the wages.
It's time to cut out this "shoot the messenger" attitude and identify and solve the real problems. There are endless reports of so-called "air rage" and of angry air passengers. Instead of addressing the problems it seems that any time a passenger/customer complains, abusive airline personnel or security bullies call it air rage or terrorism and often insolently deprive the complainant of their right to fly. In the face of such treatment it is not surprising that so many pax have nothing but contempt for the air travel industry and its employees.
There are remarkably few reports of train rage on the railways, coach rage on Greyhound and European equivalents or ferry rage on BC Ferries or Cross Channel ferries. These other forms of transport are doing something right that the air travel industry is not. How is it that so many are unable to comprehend this or do understand it but have another agenda?
It should be obvious that the answer is for the air travel industry to treat its customers with the same respect and level of service as these other forms of transport have shown are both possible and practical! The pax, with those few aforementioned exceptions, will then in turn again begin to show the same sort of respect towards the air travel industry and its employees. Once upon a time air travel was considered exotic and pilots and air hostesses were looked up to. Although this will never return to the same extent there is much that the air travel industry can and should do to improve the whole air travel experience. If it wants respect it has to earn it!
That is an interesting perspective on this issue. I do however disagree or perhaps have some concerns about what you are saying. After giving your post some thought, I firmly believe that the behavior of passengers today is at an all time low. Lets go back to the 1950's and 1960's where air travelers would never act the way they do today. Meanwhile, they would be crossing the Atlantic or the country in something like a DC-6, bouncing around in the lower atmosphere through all kinds of weather, without any of the conveniences of today such as, on demand movies, satellite radio, or in some cases, a hot meal even. Put today's passenger in a DC-6 and send them to Paris, I doubt they will last to Newfoundland. I doubt this was all compensated by a smile at check-in.
Having said that, I do agree with you in that customer service has declined over the years but to be fair, so has the price of a ticket. Florida for $100? Comon, how is anybody going to make a proper profit margin which would allow a full compliment of staff properly equipped with the tools they need to do the job right? The reality is that ticket prices are too low to sustain a healthy profitable industry. The average ticket price to Rome in the early 70's was $600. That was 40 years ago! Now compare the price of fuel, aircraft, insurance and inflation in general.
I have never experienced an industry where the customer has had such an attitude of entitlement. Right now in Europe, stranded passengers are having hotels and meals provided by the airlines while we wait for a volcano to stop erupting. It is law in Europe for airlines to do this. How many times has BC Ferries, Greyhound, VIA Rail or any taxi cab company provided accommodation to reduce any inconvenience to you, due to an act of god, totally beyond their control? When has any industry ever been forced to do this?
I am sorry, after 25 years of flying, I do agree with the original posters views on this matter. I also believe the majority of airline employees do respect the customer. ( even when it could be argued that wages have been in a steady decline to help fund the low ticket prices of today ) Keep in mind, this is the same customer who in general, doesn't even have enough respect for themselves to stop talking on the cell phone in order to pay attention to a safety demo which may save their life.
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Jaques Strappe
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Re: Vasectomies for everyone!
Plus 1MrBurns wrote:It all comes down to parenting.
Or perhaps, lack of.
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Re: Passengers can be such pigs
Agree with you 100% Jaques.
Unfortunately, when good will is extended to some passengers it becomes expected. When their sense of entitlement is not fulfilled successful litigation propels the downward spiral. Meals, hotels, travel vouchers and now a passenger bill of rights. Where will it end? Meanwhile, that $250 return ticket YYZ-LAX means that every socially challenged trailer trash can ride on a state-of-the-art modern aircraft. Forget about the fact they had a safe, professionally operated experience, they only want to bitch about how they didn't get a free meal. It aint just the economy traveller either. Some of the most inappropriate comments have come from our valued elite passengers. Like I said in an earlier post on this topic. The amount of entitlement and mess that was left behind for me to clean on the Lear was directly proportional to the amount of money they made.
Unfortunately, when good will is extended to some passengers it becomes expected. When their sense of entitlement is not fulfilled successful litigation propels the downward spiral. Meals, hotels, travel vouchers and now a passenger bill of rights. Where will it end? Meanwhile, that $250 return ticket YYZ-LAX means that every socially challenged trailer trash can ride on a state-of-the-art modern aircraft. Forget about the fact they had a safe, professionally operated experience, they only want to bitch about how they didn't get a free meal. It aint just the economy traveller either. Some of the most inappropriate comments have come from our valued elite passengers. Like I said in an earlier post on this topic. The amount of entitlement and mess that was left behind for me to clean on the Lear was directly proportional to the amount of money they made.
Yup. I aint that old, but I certainly do not remember it being socially acceptable to hear teenage girls dropping F-bombs every other sentence.MrBurns wrote:It all comes down to parenting.
