Canadain Aviation Sucks!!

jumperdumper · Post by **jumperdumper** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:40 pm

Very little movement in the industry here in Canada compared with Europe and the rest of the world. Will there ever be a chance to actually make a living here with our oh so limited airline hiring? I hope so.....but in the mean time, i'm looking overseas at this time and would like some input to what its like out there, thats anywhere they will accept my FAA ATR or Canadian ATPL.

mental vomit · Post by **mental vomit** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:48 pm

Fine gooo you've stayed yer hour.

jumperdumper · Post by **jumperdumper** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:53 pm

....and its people like you that make the industry what it is.

mental vomit · Post by **mental vomit** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:07 pm

What did I do? I've never done anything in this industry, never will

. Don't you go blaming your troubles on me. All of the planes under my control always get to their destination when I make a big X with my handy dandy wandies. You've got the wrong guy, I'm innocent I tells ya, innocent.

But I welcome this kind of examination, because people should know if their marshaller is a crook, well I am not a crook, I've earned everything I've got.

mental vomit · Post by **mental vomit** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:12 pm

Ok ok...aside from hijacking your plea for help. What have I done to you? Lighten up old boy.Only one spin on this blue marble, try to have some fun.

... · Post by **...** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:25 pm

jumperdumper wrote:....and its people like you that make the industry what it is.

hmmm....

I'm not going to go 'Dr. Phil' on yer arse....
So, instead 'JumperDumper'...I dare ya...one more step...
I'm sure there is someone that cares enough...Someone that will reach
out and listen to you.

jumperdumper · Post by **jumperdumper** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:27 pm

You guys kill me.....totally out of context. Anyway...it goes to show how slow the industry is when you have nothing better to do than "hijack" the posts of people who are looking for solutions.

mental vomit · Post by **mental vomit** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:33 pm

Hehe that's the spirit!! Now as far as us finding you a job. We're going to need a bit more than "you all suck, I want out of this country, help me" Why don't you tell me about some of your talents, hobbies and community work. That way we can place you where you'll be of greatest mutual benefit.

It's gonna be a changin' day in yer life.

V1 · Post by V1 » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:45 pm

Well you are probably going to have to go and and get a JAR license, then probably pay for a really expensive rating on a jet (check out ryan airs training program) or you could stay in canada and
a) get an instructor rating (that will hopefully lead to multi pic time) because if not you will probably go to plan b anyways.
b) pay for a ppc and get multi time and probably a crappy job for a couple years (still cheaper then a jet rating and a instructor rating that leads to buying a ppc)
c)work on the ramp/office at a company that 'might' put you on the flight line after 2-5 years if you are lucky. (these positions are becoming rare)

So maybe you should look at your options and your attitude and figure out if this is what you want to do because if your already unhappy i highly doubt things are going to change, no matter where you live.
The best of luck!

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:49 pm

Things could be a lot worse... http://www.americanangst.com/dingfries.html

jumperdumper · Post by **jumperdumper** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:02 pm

You nailed it on the head....very limited routes here in Canada....now i've done the bush thing, ramp work, i've got the time, and several aircraft under my belt. I am looking for an adventure overseas, to be able to exprience a new and different culture. Africa and Middle east are big draws for me, i'm hoping for some feedback from the pilots who have gone that route...beyond Canada. What can a person expect from that direction?

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:07 pm

[sarcasm]wow, so you have, like, omg, 1500 hours! I can't believe no one is snapping you up with that resume of yours![/sarcasm]

Seriously though, if you want something handed to you on a platter, i recommend finding an A&W that still has those cool trays they put on your car window.

jumperdumper · Post by **jumperdumper** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:23 pm

Im not here to post my resume & to defend my experience...but don't post if you don't know what your talking about. I've been through more shit in airplanes in 5000 hours than you'll see through your entire career. So do us all a favor and keep your sarcasim to yourself...

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:38 pm

Canus Chinookus wrote:
Seriously though, if you want something handed to you on a platter, i recommend finding an A&W that still has those cool trays they put on your car window.

You won't find any A&W's in Canada that still do that. Last time I drove that route; there was one in Duluth Minnesota and a couple in Wisconsin that did though. Of course that was about twelve years ago, things may have changed.

... · Post by **...** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:40 pm

Hey 'Mental Vomit'

what are you doing...this is a 'gimme' for ya!?! why are you NOT putting an end to this thread!?

put down the booze and bimbos...get to work.

mental vomit · Post by **mental vomit** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:42 pm

Maybe they have some job opportunites for ol' dumpy here?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:11 pm

Jumperdumper :

One would have the expectation that posting a reasonable question about flying on a aviation forum would bring at least some replies that one could identify as having been written by another pilot. Sadly this does not seem to be the case from reading the childish drivel you have received to your question.

So I will try and give you some ideas of what to expect looking for work overseas.

Europe would be a very tough nut to crack mainly because of the JAR rules for getting a license there, last week I was asking some flight instructors in Holland how difficult the writtens are for the JAR ATPL and the answers I got were not very encouraging. It would take you about a year to study and write the exams not to mention the cost of living over there.

I don't know if you can study and write here in Canada.

Flying training in Europe is very expensive I have the rental rates right in front of me for a school in Holland and a Cessna 172 rents for 170 euro's per hour ( $260.00 Canadian ) and I believe the instructor would be another 30 Euros. Also there are landing fees at all airports and doing touch and goes it is not unusual for the landing fees to equal the rental cost. At Lelystad where I fly the landing fee is around 15 euro per landing for a Cessna 172 I think.

Africa is a possibility if you go to the right place at the right time, Maun in Botswana is one of the most popular places for expats to get a start in Africa, also there seems to be some opportunities in Nairobi in Kenya. ( go to the Aero Club at Wilson Airport the guys there are friendly and can be very helpful) also there is ocassionally work to be had in Tanzania.

South Africa is also another good place to go but the job chances are very slim due to so many local pilots also looking for work. If you do go to S.A. Lanseria just outside of Johanesburg has lots of schools and companies, also Rand airport just south of J-Berg is another interesting airport.

Cape Town is very interesting with lots of flying activity but not very many job chances.

The Middle East is tricky and even if you do find work the living conditions and the culture can be a challenge. ihave talked to lots of expats in Jeddah during my several stays in that part of the world and they were working for very low pay and flying weird hours, about the same as courrier work in Canada.

One way to get better aquainted with the Africa scene is to read the Africa forum on Pprune.

If you are single and want some adventure my advice would be to go to Maun and get some Africa feeling, I love Africa wpould go back in a heartbeat, however every time I went there I was already working for someone ( seven times )

Bottom line is everywhere is difficult, but if you are young and single f.ck it just go and experience the change and learn.

One last comment, I fly a lot in Europe and unless you have lots of money you should just forget Europe.

And the Canadian license is useless outside of Canada, the FAA license is better but you will still need to get a license in whatever country you go to.

If you want to talk to me on the phone my home number is 250-758-3693 and I am home for about a month before i return to holland to finish the summer over there.

Cat ( . . )

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:28 pm

Check out PPrune for the most current info on JAR conversions.

Currently, you can do the "groundschool" for the JAA ATPL via distance education - I believe the website is http://www.nacgroundschool.com - and Cat's right, from what I understand the exams (all 14 of them) are extremely difficult. Not impossible, however.

At my paltry level of experience I was told by numerous sources that I could get hooked up with a regional with little trouble. Seems that book smarts are the norm in European aviation, but highly experienced pilots are a little harder to come by...might have something to do with the extreme cost of getting in (oh, I didn't mention that, did I) or the 14 exams. You'll also probably need to redo your IFR rating, redo your commercial flight test, and take a "Multi-crew coordination" course (unless you have 500 hours of multi-crew experience - and they want it in fairly large aircraft...I've heard King Airs may count). So it's undoubtedly a bit of a process, but it could pay off in the end. Oh, and you need to possess a European passport for just about every job I've looked into...which could just ditch the whole affair.

To see some of the stuff available once you get all your ducks in a row, check out http://www.atlasaviation.com, or "flight jobs international"...both have numerous postings for relatively inexperienced pilots...oh, and you'll probably have to pay for a type rating on the aircraft you want to fly - it seems to be the norm over there.

I added everything up for myself, and I figured in excess of 10,000 to get converted (minus the type rating) and get the MCC course done. I've heard of guys doing it for less, but who knows...

Later,

Pugster

. - I've gotta admire the balls you've got for posting your phone number in a forum where I think you're the only one using his real name...

mental vomit · Post by **mental vomit** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:33 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Jumperdumper :
Sadly this does not seem to be the case from reading the childish drivel you have received to your question.

Your preferred routing would have been: direct response to Dumpy....but you chose a more extended route. So too shall I.

Mr. ....the heading of this thread is called...

"Canadian Aviation Sucks"

A little humble pie never hurt anyone, and I eat a big slice of it everytime I read some of your more insightful posts but...

At the risk of sounding like I am disrespecting your thoughts; your new friend seems to be as common a pilot as are his comments heard everyday on the airport ramps all over this country. Whether it was a rant of his that he decided to grace our precsious forums with, or just one of those guy's that "have all the solutions...but no answers."

He is as common and uncreative as the poor maggots that dropped 30 large on a pipe dream of white shirts and stale peanuts.

I say...let him leave and do us all a favour and not get in the way of those that want to move forward without contending with the likes of him.

You may call this little bit of fun "drivel" but I'd be more inclined to say that over 500 posts complaining about transport canada could verge on drivel. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. And you certainly are entitled to it. I wouldn't say its unwarranted, either.

I do appreciate that you tried to help him out though and that you see him as a noteworthy cause in aviation...I just would appreciate a better approach over:
"Canadian Aviation sucks...find me a job"

and by the way...where were you when Birddog was taking on JetsGo...???

Respectfully Yours.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:16 pm

" and by the way...where were you when Birddog was taking on JetsGo...??? "

I was right here reading his posts like everyone else, but chose not to get involved.

Sorry you don't care for my posts re TC, but maybe if enough people become educated about how your regulator works aviation may be improved in Canada.

And reading jumperdumpers comments on the state of aviation in Canada I agree with his comments.

I have not worked in Canada for many years because there is very little opportunity to make a living flying in canada.

By the way your is the name you use some indication of your outlook on aviation?

Cat

mental vomit · Post by **mental vomit** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:03 am

Cat Driver wrote:" and by the way...where were you when Birddog was taking on JetsGo...??? "

And reading jumperdumpers comments on the state of aviation in Canada I agree with his comments.

I have not worked in Canada for many years because there is very little opportunity to make a living flying in canada.

By the way your is the name you use some indication of your outlook on aviation?

Cat

Well then all I can do is wish you guys all the best in your endeavors to get the hell out of the country and return here when you want to ski or fish. It certainly is your perrogative. Just understand the respect will lie with those who, instead of complaining and finger pointing, stick around and try to make things better. Afterall...it is avCANADA. Not AvIwannaleaveboohooeverythingsuckshelpme. Maybe you guys should get your own place where you can sit around and shake your collective fists at some imaginary deamon of aviation. Just know that your sour little dumpy buddy here, will be the first person in line here when things begin to improve. And I look forward to it.

I do appreciate that you lowered yourself down a few notches to take a shot at the name; sticks and stones mate.

Vickers vanguard · Post by **Vickers vanguard** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:35 am

Cat Driver wrote:" and by the way...where were you when Birddog was taking on JetsGo...??? "

Sorry you don't care for my posts re TC, but maybe if enough people become educated about how your regulator works aviation may be improved in Canada..............Cat

I did and do care about your posts regarding TC.....maybe because I grew-up in countries where you can't even question any of the country's regulating agency regardless of the industry involved...........so now, I learned to appreciate the value of my vote !!!!
A lot of people in this country don't realize how uglly it can get if the people you voted into office are left unchecked. It's almost the same answer that I get when I'm discussing politics with people in the 25 to 40 years range; "what's the point of complaining, it won't make change, it'll always stays the same ".....that's what they say.....

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:58 am

Try looking for a Bermudan-registered a/c. Lots are registered there for tax shelter reasons and God bless 'em, the Bermudans are generous with their conversions. My Canadian license was accepted for a Bermudan validation for a contract I flew a while ago.

Also, Luxemburg also does this, but the JAA license is the usual one used there, although occasionally a FAA one will suffice. Expect to sign a training bond if you do not have a type rating - I have no problem with bonds as long as there is no money up front.

I have heard that the Moncton school gives training towards the JAA license, but I believe that they only do it to Commercial levels? Also, you must do a ride with a TRE at your own expense in Europe...$$$

Get an FAA license and use it overseas. The only problem with the US is that they won't let Canadians in, but that doesn't stop us from flying an N-reg'd a/c overseas.

Trans Capital and Canadian Metro have contracts overseas, but you better be healthy and have all your shots and do not expect to get Marriott points!

Canadian aviation does indeed suck, unless you love the Beaver lifestyle and want to live in a tip for the rest of your life.

Get on with Conair and go firebombing - work 5 years as a birddog and then get paid as much as you will ever get at Jazz and only work 4 months. Don't expect to have more than 1500 hours in 10 years, though.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:44 am

Good morning M.V. :

" I do appreciate that you lowered yourself down a few notches to take a shot at the name; sticks and stones mate."_________________

You seem to be confused about personal impressions because it was you not me who chose that name to post on an aviation web site..

I am still jet lagged this morning and will try and be civil to you and comment on your arrogant attitude telling me I should get the hell out of the country.

For your information I do get out of the country on a regular basis to earn a decent living. My meal allowance per day is what some Canadian Navajo Captains get paid to fly, so why wouldnt I fly somewhere else?

And I would be a little careful with my attitude toward jumperdumper if I were you because I believe he has flown airplanes you probably have never seen such as the C117.

And while I am on a roll here M.V. over the past half a century of flying airplanes I have interviewed and hired hundreds of pilots and the least important issue to me is how many hours they have written in their log book, what I look for is the attitude that the applicant has, judging from reading your contribution to this site so far my guess you is are still in the early stages of childhood...or you are an older person with an extreemly long childhood.

By the way pal, one of the reasons I can fly overseas is because I hold the licenses and or authority to fly Transport Catagory aircraft in South Africa, Australia, the USA and under JAR in Europe...

What is your background that gives you license to denigrade me and jumperdumper?

Cat

mental vomit · Post by **mental vomit** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:58 am

comment on your arrogant attitude telling me I should get the hell out of the country.

mental vomit wrote:Well then all I can do is wish you guys all the best in your endeavors to get the hell out of the country

Not sure where I told you to leave..re-read things when you are feeling less lagged. And I'll even let you have last word, I know how you work.