Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Got a hot employment or interview tip to help a fellow aviator find a job or looking for a little job advice place your posting here.

Moderators: Sulako, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia

Widow
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:57 pm
Location: Vancouver Island

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by Widow »

Shame.

Clearly this is why
Shiny Side Up wrote:... we just need that government to start doing the job its supposed to.
Why aren't aviation accidents involving working pilots investigated with the same degree of efficacy as those performed by Worker's Compensation Boards? Why aren't pilots given the same access to resolution/protection from reprisal when they refuse to work for safety reasons? Why does the industry accept this?
---------- ADS -----------
 
"The world is not dangerous because of those who do harm but because of those who look at it without doing anything." - Albert Einstein
Widow
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:57 pm
Location: Vancouver Island

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by Widow »

From the Criminal Code:
425.1 (1) No employer or person acting on behalf of an employer or in a position of authority in respect of an employee of the employer shall take a disciplinary measure against, demote, terminate or otherwise adversely affect the employment of such an employee, or threaten to do so,
  • (a) with the intent to compel the employee to abstain from providing information to a person whose duties include the enforcement of federal or provincial law, respecting an offence that the employee believes has been or is being committed contrary to this or any other federal or provincial Act or regulation by the employer or an officer or employee of the employer or, if the employer is a corporation, by one or more of its directors; or

    (b) with the intent to retaliate against the employee because the employee has provided information referred to in paragraph (a) to a person whose duties include the enforcement of federal or provincial law.
(2) Any one who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of
  • (a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

    (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
---------- ADS -----------
 
"The world is not dangerous because of those who do harm but because of those who look at it without doing anything." - Albert Einstein
CD
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2731
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:13 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by CD »

EDITORIAL
Too young to die, refuse unsafe work


March 28, 2009
BY This Week Staff

This Week offers our deepest sympathies to the family and friends of Bradley Ebbers. His death at 19 years old on a construction site in Kanata is a terrible loss.

The Ministry of Labour is still investigating the death of the young Metcalfe resident, so we can’t comment on what caused his death, but it’s clear that 19 is simply too young to die.

Media coverage of the former St. Mark student’s death has used the word “accident” a lot, but “accident” doesn’t seem appropriate for an event that caused the death of a young man. It has implications that it is just a chance event that happened.

Like the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board commercials say, “there really are no accidents.”

“Accidents” are preventable. People need to speak up when their employer asks them to do something that feels dangerous or unsafe. Unfortunately, for a young person starting on the job, it may seem intimidating to tell your boss that you’re worried.

No matter what your age, it important for workers to:

* Demand proper training.
* Wear proper safety equipment.
* Refuse unsafe work.

Remember, in most cases workers have a right to refuse unsafe work without losing their job. For more information on this topic, visit prevent-it.ca. There’s also a site specifically for young workers called www.youngworker.ca.

Employers also have responsibilities to keep workers safe. If you’re an employer and want to know more about what you should be doing to prevent accidents, there’s a link on prevent-it.ca to information about your responsibilities, as well as tools to help you get started making your workplace safe for your employees.

When it comes to the workplace, it is always better to be safe then sorry.

Full article here...
---------- ADS -----------
 
Wonderdog
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by Wonderdog »

Hey Widow, always remember, machine, mechanic, driver. I never forget as a mechanic, nor do I remember all the good stuff, but YVC has frozen over 4-6" blue clear and the hockey game should begin, tommorrow, and last until Thursday. Come visit some of these old farts and new snorts from town and enjoy. Ref not nessesary required.
Not to sure what the topic was, though you only have 2 rights in this big country.

Thanks,
SMcL.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attachments
Chesterfield Inlet 026.jpg
Chesterfield Inlet 026.jpg (132.26 KiB) Viewed 33616 times
Widow
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:57 pm
Location: Vancouver Island

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by Widow »

Did you just invite us to LaRonge? :rolleyes:

Of course, mechanics also deserve a safe work place, and Transport Canada/Labour/HRSDC does not better at that than they do for pilots. But pilots are always the first to arrive at the scene of the accident.
---------- ADS -----------
 
"The world is not dangerous because of those who do harm but because of those who look at it without doing anything." - Albert Einstein
tzu
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:13 pm

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by tzu »

CD wrote:You're welcome...



:smt023

Credit Hound :prayer:

I'm sure your memoirs will soon be available for purchase at amazon.com :D

All kidding aside, thanks.
---------- ADS -----------
 
crazy_aviator
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 917
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:13 am

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by crazy_aviator »

What i think would be very good to see is documented Proof of case histories wherein pilots, AME s etc have been wronged by the industry/system and have taken it to court or arbitration or through any governent agency and WON ! Evidence to the effect that WE CAN fight and WIN would go a long way to SUPPORT every person contemplating doing the right thing ,,,,,,,,Kirsten ?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
FlaplessDork
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 9:50 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by FlaplessDork »

crazy_aviator wrote:What i think would be very good to see is documented Proof of case histories wherein pilots, AME s etc have been wronged by the industry/system and have taken it to court or arbitration or through any governent agency and WON ! Evidence to the effect that WE CAN fight and WIN would go a long way to SUPPORT every person contemplating doing the right thing ,,,,,,,,Kirsten ?
I won my labour case against a former employer who fired me for snagging airplanes. It is possible.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Mach 92
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:14 pm

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by Mach 92 »

I am currently involved in litigation over training costs with my former employer and so far it is not looking good. It appears to be cheaper to settle for half the bill ($20,000) to get the employer off my back vs paying more than that to take it to court. Something not right about that. Pilots need a lawyer who is willing to take on sh&*tty employers pro-bono.

Stay tuned......
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
bandaid
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2396
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Kelowna

Re:

Post by bandaid »

CD wrote:
rsandor wrote:This thread needs to be a permanent "sticky" thread.
I would agree with that... :smt023

However, at this point, the mods seem to like the information posted in the "deadbeat" pilot thread better so they have it up as a sticky instead. :smt017

So, in the meantime, we'll just have to keep bumping it to the top. :wink:
So what exactly did we do to you to deserve this comment? If I had the power to sticky it I would. Believe it or not, the mods have jobs that take them away from their computers and that makes it so that we cannot be here 24 hours a day.
---------- ADS -----------
 
CD
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2731
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:13 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by CD »

bandaid wrote:So what exactly did we do to you to deserve this comment? If I had the power to sticky it I would. Believe it or not, the mods have jobs that take them away from their computers and that makes it so that we cannot be here 24 hours a day.
Well, since the comment was made in 2007 much has changed. :rolleyes: At the time, the moderating team had certain priorities and threads such as the "deadbeat pilot" story was made a sticky.

Some members felt that perhaps information related to health and safety might be a bit more appropriate for highlighting... Of course, this thread is a sticky now in the Employment Forum. :smt023

As the original links were posted a number of years ago and have changed, here are the current links (as of June 2011):

TP13537 - Right to Refuse Dangerous Work on Board Aircraft While in Operation
Aviation Occupational Health and Safety
AC LTA-004 - Aviation Occupational Health and Safety Program
AC 0202R - Employer and Employee Rights and Responsibilities, with respect to Employees Refusing to Work in Dangerous Situations
TP 13900 - As an employer... Are you ensuring the health and safety of your employees?
Pilots Can Refuse to Work
TP 13844 - Score Your Safety Culture
TP 2228E-8 - Take Five ... For Safety: Pilots’ Rights

Canada Labour Code
Canada Occupational Health and Safety Regulations
Aviation Occupational Health and Safety Regulations (Revised)

Young Workers (Alberta)
WorkSafeBC: Young Workers at Risk (British Columbia)
Young Employees (Manitoba)
WorkSafeNB: Prevention at School (New Brunswick)
Young Workers (Nova Scotia)
Young Workers (Ontario)
Young Workers (Prince Edward Island)
Jeunes au travail (Quebec)
WorkSafeSK: Youth
CANOSH - Young Workers
---------- ADS -----------
 
Darkhorse
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: hotel

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by Darkhorse »

This is an interesting subject as there are many sides and issues involved when it comes to the pilot or AME or general labourer working for an air taxi service, charter, or airline.

Most general employees are under provincial laws (correct me if Im wrong). Pilots fall under federal labour law. I am not sure what category AMEs fall under. Therefore, depending on what career you choose gives the employer and employee specific rules and rights.

There are many people which have been done wrong by the employer. Be it constructive dismissal or tactics used putting the fear of god into the employee, "if you (don't / do) this then you will not be promoted, upgraded, asked to come back, or just simply loose your job...

I had a personal experience where the owner and two subordinates threatened me and my job if I did not toe the line. The evidence gathered was weak and unrelated. This went to a lawyer which quickly stopped the employer in their tracks for constructive dismissal.. It happens. It is a difficult decision for an individual employee to make and carry out and of course there will be consequences immediately and in the future.

Now as professional: Pilots/ AMEs we put a certain amount of faith into the employer and into the government (Transport Canada). We believe that when we provide our services to an employer we will be treated with respect and paid accordingly. We also believe that if we have any issues we can approach the employer to discuss. If that fails we believe that we can turn to TC and ask for help. Having failed that we believe we can turn to the Labour board and address our issues with them. This can be a long process and daunting as you as an individual will have to take it on by yourself with limited resources and no support (except family).

So now what. Well maybe you have a union to help you out. But as someone pointed out in the early post - Unions are not perfect either but can be helpful depending on the union.

The last point about Pilots specifically is that they have a tendency to fight their own fights and run away from everyone else's. They are loaners. This is not a negative criticism just an observation. EMPLOYERS KNOW THIS and they use it to their advantage. AMEs are different in this category.. generally I have noticed that the AME crowd (correct me if Im wrong) stick together.

I believe that if Pilots and AMEs wanted to take more control over their future, the best solution would be to have a professional association similar to Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers. An association that can lobby the government to change the Labour code that will protect all pilots (200 hour and 10000 hour) from the bad employers, unsafe operations, low paying first jobs, and more importantly federal laws which allow the employers to tell you that "you can fly a 14 hour day in an Air taxi operation because we dont fly in the winter" When do most accidents happen???? Late summer.

It is up to the whole group of pilots to protect each other before one even gets into an employers c-185, or ATR 42

Cheers
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rowdy
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5074
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:26 pm
Location: On Borrowed Wings

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by Rowdy »

Darkhorse wrote:"you can fly a 14 hour day in an Air taxi operation because we dont fly in the winter" When do most accidents happen???? Late summer.
Early on in the season too.. as the weather is still shitty, machines are fresh out of the hangar/yard/maintenance and the pilots are flying their bags off setting up camps for the season.

Who on earth came up with the bullshit 14hr duty day? When the standard has been 8hrs for everyone else? How many of us are not paid ANY overtime when crossing that 8hr threshold? How about more than 40hrs in a week? Right.. federal regs and NO one will touch them.

There are many areas that we as a pilot group need to band together and change. Most will increase the safety of operations and better our operations.

Darkhorse you are very very right. Pilots are way too far up their own behinds to care about anything or anyone else. Me. I. Mine.
---------- ADS -----------
 
travellinpilot
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:55 am

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by travellinpilot »

Too bad you get fired being safe. There are so many sketchy operators out there and maintenance who give you a hard time about snags
---------- ADS -----------
 
Altimeter
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:35 am

Re: Pilots: Stay Safe, Know Your Rights

Post by Altimeter »

SECURITAS

Report transportation safety concerns in confidence


The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB) administers a program called SECURITAS that enables you to report-in confidence-concerns you may have about safety in the marine, pipeline, rail and air modes of transportation. The incidents and potentially unsafe acts or conditions you report through SECURITAS are not always reported through other channels.

SECURITAS reports can lead to the TSB making formal recommendations to the Minister of Transport or issuing safety advisories to other government departments or industry organizations for action.

SECURITAS reports can help the identify widespread safety issues.

By combining confidential report data with other accident and incident reports and studies, and by sharing safety information with other agencies in Canada and abroad, investigators gain greater insight into national and global transportation safety issues.

SECURITAS reports may support studies and analyses on safety-related matters such as operating procedures, training, human performance and equipment.


Who reports to SECURITAS?

You are a pilot, air traffic controller, dispatcher, flight services specialist, flight attendant, aircraft maintenance engineer, a passenger-or any other person having an interest in aviation safety.

What kind of situation should you report?

These are some examples of the types of situations that could affect air transportation safety and that your report might help correct.

Unsafe conditions

• Chronic lack of repair of aircraft, poor maintenance practices

• Unsafe runway or aerodrome conditions

• Inadequate or poor air traffic services in a particular area

• Poor reception of navigation signals, weak radio coverage, inadequate weather services

• Errors in aeronautical publications; unsafe procedures published in manuals of instructions for pilots, cabin crew, ground crew, or aircraft maintenance or air traffic services



Unsafe procedures and practices

• Routinely descending below minimum en route altitude or approach in instrument meteorological conditions

• Non-compliance with airworthiness directives, minimum equipment list

• Pilots flying in excess of regulatory flight-time limits

• Unsafe aircraft circuit procedures and/or communications

• Air traffic control practices that could jeopardize the safety of flight, e.g., use of non-standard phraseology, compromising separation criteria, inadequate manning and supervision

• Unsafe cabin baggage stowage procedures; unsafe passenger seating or cargo securing arrangements

• Aircraft maintenance procedures not completed correctly but signed off

• Shortcuts in following checklist procedures

• Crew scheduling problems: inadequate crew composition, unqualified crew, inadequate crew rest

• Scheduling personnel who are not professionally or medically qualified for the assigned duties

• The use of unapproved parts, time-expired equipment


Contact SECURITAS

The Transportation Safety Board of Canada will never reveal your identity or any information that could identify who you are. By reporting an unsafe act or condition, you can help make a real difference towards improving transportation safety.

E-mail:
securitas@bst-tsb.gc.ca (preferred)

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/securitas
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Employment Forum”