Aerobatic Training

[StepOnTheBall]

Can anybody recommend a place in southern Ontario where one can recieve reasonably priced aerobatic training? Any info on personal experiences, aircraft types, specific instructors, etc. would be appreciated.

[Hedley]

There is precious little aerobatic instruction offered in Ontario, which I understand suits Transport just fine.

I might suggest Gerry Younger in his Pitts S-2A at Kitchener-Waterloo, but I had heard he'd retired from doing that.

You might try Air Combat Canada in St Catharines, but I'd heard their Extra 300's went down south. They weren't cheap when they were in the business, if you calculated their hourly rate.

Hey, there must be somebody with a Zlin in Toronto that could get you upside down. I know there are a couple of aerobatic instructors in Toronto, I dunno if all the aerobatic aircraft are privately-owned or not.

[Cat Driver]

Buy my Aerobat.

[TorontoGuy]

The Internatuional Aerobatic Club website lists 4 places in Ontario:

Brampton Flight Centre
Classic Wings, Inc., in Courtice
Grimsby Aviation
Island Air Flight School, Toronto

just go here, and click on "Canada" for details:
http://www.iac.org/begin/schools.html#P455_20154

Pretty recent, the page was last updated Jan. 16.

[AOW]

I know that neither Island Air nor Brampton Flying Club offer aerobatic instruction.

I do know that there is a company, Future Air, that advertises Aerobatic instruction at the Holland Landing airpark.
Future Air Aerobatic Training Webpage
They have a 7KCAB Citabria (150hp, no flaps, inverted fuel/oil system for up to 3 minutes of inverted flight). I have no personal experience with this company, although I do know at least one guy who's flown their Citabria, just for taildragger experience. I spoke to someone more recently who said that they may not be the best bet for aerobatic training, but I don't know what other options there are, nearby.
I have limited aerobatic experience in powered aircraft, only one flight in a 7ECA Citabria (only 100hp, but it was a blast!) So 50 more horses on essentially the same airframe should be a pretty good setup.

So I can't speciffically recommend anybody in the GTA, these guys seem to be worth a shot.

[Hedley]

Brampton Flight Centre

http://www.bramfly.ca/4_training.html says:

AEROBATICS - Not Available at this time.

Classic Wings, Inc., in Courtice

Classic Wings Inc., Contact: Stan Miller, 1748 Baseline Rd. W., Oshawa, Ont., L1E 2T1. Tel.: 905-259-1280; Fax: 416-284-5499; E-mail: hawkefield@sympatico.ca.
Base: Oshawa
Training includes: Classic, tailwheel, aerobatic
Training fleet: Harvards, Tiger Moth, J3 Cub

That looks pretty cool - I guess they have a Harvard for aerobatics?

Grimsby Aviation

They don't seem to have a website, I found this:

Grimsby Aviation 905-945-6161 CNZ8, Ralph Meyer is the instructor, $130 hr, in a Citabria.

Island Air Flight School, Toronto

I found this:

http://www.flyislandair.net/

which doesn't mention anything about aerobatics in the "Flight Training" page, and on the "Our Fleet" page doesn't like any aerobatic aircraft, and on the "Our Staff" page doesn't advertise anyone as an aerobatic instructor, and "Our Prices" doesn't like anything related to aerobatics, either.

Hope this helps,

[Brewguy]

You might try Air Combat Canada in St Catharines, but I'd heard their Extra 300's went down south. They weren't cheap when they were in the business, if you calculated their hourly rate.

Sorry, the Canadian branch office of Fighter Combat International (formerly Air Combat Canada) is no longer in business. One of the aerobatic instructors from FCI was doing some private instruction on a Decathlon over the summer months, but I don't think he has that airplane any more.

[bcrosby]

Almost 4 years later....

Same question... present day. Anyone have any suggestions for aerobatic training in Southern Ontario? A few of the places mentioned previously in this post have broken websites or are out of business.

[mcrit]

Well, your best bet is to buy an aerobatic aircraft (or a share in one) and then engage an instructor. That is the route I had to take. You can pick up a basic aerobatic a/c for a good price these days (try COPA or Barnstormers.com). There are a few aerobatic instructors in southern Ontario. I'd suggest Ken Lam. He was at BFC and someone at Brampton should be able to get you in contact with him.

[av8tor_assrope]

Hey just on a side note....Stan Miller of Classic Wings actually passed away a while ago. I'm not quite sure who's running it now. I was fortunate to have him do 2 of my flight tests and he also gave me a backseat ride in one of the company Harvards. He flew Lancs in WW2 and instructed at Seneca for years.

Cheers

[hz2p]

.

[cgzro]

Yes, lots of acro at CYND, P-51, Spit, Harvard and my Pitts on most nice weekends. Unfortunately no dual.
OAC at Ottawa has a 2 seat Grob and some good basic Acro instruction however.

Peter

[chippy]

I might be able to help you out if you have access to an airplane.

[172PIC]

For anyone going commercial would it help having the aero training just as an extra? Obviously you're not going to be doing loops with customers on board but just wondering if it would be one of those lines on the resume to set you apart from all the others?

[bcrosby]

That's exactly it. I just want to get some extra experience with unusual attitudes. I think it would totally help with confidence and preparedness.

Not to mention fun!

[Snare_TS]

I've tried looking up everything I could for a school offering aerobatics, but looks like they are all closed for good. I too am looking for something to keep me busy on my way to my CPL. Guess only way to go is to find an instructor with some free time on their hands and a plane for that matter.

Anyone willing to tutor in the GTA?

[Hedley]

I know of at least two different outfits that tried to offer aerobatics in the GTA and both went broke.

If you can't make a living offering acro in the GTA - with it's huge market - it's going to be difficult making a go of it someplace with only say one tenth of the potential customers.

Pretty short season in Canada for acro. It's just not the same as California or Florida.

[Brewguy]

...If you can't make a living offering acro in the GTA - with it's huge market - it's going to be difficult making a go of it someplace with only say one tenth of the potential customers...

+1

Besides that, it's sad to say, but a very large percentage of pilots in Canada are cheap - and don't want to pay for this type of training. Hearing people compare the cost of an hour of advanced training to how much time they could rent a 172 at their local flying club is enough to make you want to scream.

[bcrosby]

Besides that, it's sad to say, but a very large percentage of pilots in Canada are cheap - and don't want to pay for this type of training.

Yeah, it really is a shame. I think it's important from a safety point of view that you experience "true" unusual attitudes and not just spins/spirals.

Learning how to get into these attitudes (to know how *not* to get yourself in that situation) and how to get out of them (so that you can survive if you do end up upside down by accident) is important to staying alive when the fit hits the shan.

A few hours of acrobatic training is worth it. Guess I'm in the minority.

[Ground Thumper]

You could try acrobatics in a glider. A number of clubs have acrobatic programs. Just a thought.

[AEROBAT]

You could try acrobatics in a glider. A number of clubs have acrobatic programs. Just a thought.

Actualy that is a great thought Ground Thumper! A lot of guys who fly acro count on HP to get them through the manouvers. Flying a glider in acro would be a great way to learn energy management and flying the "wing" as I like to think of it. Height is energy and your wings ability to create lift dictates what you can do with your plane regarding airspeed. I know a lot of acro guys will jump in and say I am an idiot but what the heck. My plane has a great power to weight ratio but the wing sucks when it comes to low speed lift, hence it is not competative for acro and has very little drag. If you can master acro with a glider you will have no problem with powered aircraft.

P.S.... I don't hold a glider licence allthough I have had three [succesfull] engine failures to date. Should I ask the MOT for a glider rating?

[Brewguy]

...P.S.... I don't hold a glider licence allthough I have had three [succesfull] engine failures to date. Should I ask the MOT for a glider rating?

That depends. During these engine failures - did you crank it around and start thermaling whenever you felt a wing lift?

But seriously, glider aerobatics is awesome. There is no better way to learn energy management. StepOnTheBall mentioned 'Southern Ontario' in the opening post. If you're around the GTA / Golden Horseshoe, try SOSA. They have an aerobatic intro flight that's available to the general public. If you like it, get yourself a club membership for the season, bang off a glider license (the conversion is pretty easy for most licensed power pilots) and then do some acro training.

[Ruckus]

DFC in London offering basic aerobatics, and upset training on a Grob G115C.

[avcanada]

The SOSA Gliding Club is a not for profit gliding club in Rockton Ontario which offers free glider aerobatic instruction to it's members. The club has been running a structured aerobatic programs in Canada since 1999 and at the time of this writing has 4 licensed glider aerobatic instructors.

We mostly operate on weekend mornings through the spring, summer and fall.

www.sosaglidingclub.com has a section dedicated to the glider aerobatics program. The set curriculum can be adapted to achieve your specific goals from unusual attitudes, to basic manoeuvres and competition.

I know most people are looking for power aerobatics, however the high cost and low demand for an aerobatic flight school has made it difficult for businesses to maintain such a program.

I personally started flying glider aerobatics and transitioned to power shortly after. I now fly several different types of aerobatic airplanes and gliders.

Contact the user fastkite for more information memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=32192

[SuperchargedRS]

Extras, Pitts, Gliders, heck someone even said a P-51!!!

No one in ON has a Citabria or something, maybe you should head West to BC or South to the States, finding someone to teach you the ropes in a Super D or a Citabria should not be this difficult.