How many of you are atheists, agnostic, or religious?

[BoostedNihilist]

Nihilists?

[Just another canuck]

First of all, I did not mean to bash anybody... that was never my intent. I also never said I didn't believe in God. I believe there may be a higher power, but I am more along the lines of what Niss said. But none of us can say for sure what it is... and still, people dedicate their entire lives to one religion or another... and for what? So, hopefully, when they die, they get into "heaven"... That just sounds like a crock to me. I abide by all the "good" rules of the Bible anyway. I don't steal, cheat or commit murder... I don't commit any crimes. But I didn't need the Bible to teach me that... or any other Holy Book. In fact, those people who really dedicate their lives to religion, can often be not very good people. Hmmmm...
Something tells me if we had no traditional "religion", we have a few less problems here on Earth.

And to clear up the "sabotaging your children's future"... I was referring solely to Creationism. You think I'm bold? Fine. But if you are teaching your children that the Earth is 5000 years old and man came from the Snake and the apple and the rib and all that nonsense, then I believe you are causing problems for your children's future. Think of the age we live in right now and if you think Creationism has any business in the education of our youngsters. I certainly don't think so... however, it is your choice to teach your children what you wish, so by all means, go for it. If you do, think of how it will clash in the classroom though... probably somewhere around Kindergarten when they start talking about dinosaurs.

Believe in a higher power, believe in an afterlife, believe you'll get to see your loved ones again after you die... but for God's sake, we are rational, logical, educated, adult human beings. Do you really think a magical man in the sky is watching your every move? Have fun and don't stress out whether or not you'll get into heaven... just live a good life and I'm sure you will.

[Hedley]

You must admit that religious people are the experts on "sabotaging a child's future" - just ask any Roman Catholic priest.

Not too long ago the church in Cornwall, Ont just down the road from me, spent a considerable sum of money on a law firm, seeking to limit the scope of a public investigation into a pedophile ring there.

[Benwa]

2000 years is not that long ago. Approximately 37 generations.

Probably more around 78 generations. Science does tend to give better answers

[Brewguy]

2000 years is not that long ago. Approximately 37 generations.

Probably more around 78 generations. Science does tend to give better answers

+1

I was going to ask who all these people were ... having kids well into their 50's.

[Kitababy]

I would have to agree with I think it was "niss", I don't necessarily believe in God, but yes there is definitely something bigger then all of us out there! Whether it be fate, destiny or my truck?! hehe

Lets not put all our beliefs in 1 basket... someone could steal them just my 2 cents..

btw I guess I'm atheist...

[FastFlyBy]

Science flew men to the moon. Religion flew men into the World Trade Center

Great statement. Its true, but so is the reverse (for the sake of arguement).
I'm certain that there were many many people praying that the moon mission would be successful. Of course it is impossible to prove or even suggest that prayer or God had anything to do with its success. Such is the nature of faith.

I personally like that quote, not because I'm an athiest, which I am not, but because it applies to the far better arguement of extremism. Religion does not automatically mean that people will die. Extremism is what makes this world a terrible place to live in.

Having a cause or belief is one thing, holding a belief that causes one to kill, maim, and destroy is another.

[Invertago]

I'm still trying to find out where the big bang came from or what caused it?


on another note, I love the bumper sticker.

"Lord save me from your followers!"

[ktcanuck]

Carlos Ruiz Zafon expressed the truth better than anyone has so far:

..a religion is really a moral code that is expressed through legends, myths or any type of literary device in order to establish a system of beliefs, values and rules with which to regulate a culture or society.

So that's that.

[Icebound]

God, Moral Life, and Religion and quite separate things.

Religion is a business. Often conducted by persons of character similar to, well, Corporate executives.... sort of like Lehman Brothers Executives.

One of the byproducts of Religion is the control of the masses by the few who hold the "keys". Sort of like Oil Companies, and Health-Care Insurance Companies.

This control leads to some very un-Godly corporate sins.... not the least of which is "selling" salvation like it were a commodity of some type.

In much of the "western" world, we thought that we have more or less managed to limit that control to within the churches, mosques and synagogues....and keep it out of the day-to-day political sphere. Given our politics of the day, we are apparenntly not very successful.

If God DOES exist, he would certainly not approve of Religion.


====

Having said that.....


Living a moral life is something quite separate....

I abide by all the "good" rules of the Bible anyway. I don't steal, cheat or commit murder... I don't commit any crimes. But I didn't need the Bible to teach me that... or any other Holy Book.

Maybe.... but much of the law of Canada and the US is based on the "good rules" of Christianity. Had the population never ever heard of those rules, could they figure them out for themselves? Would they have to have morality imposed by some secular authority??? Without it, would they simply act for themselves without consideration of fellow human beings?

Hedley says birth, sex, death, defines our lifespan. But our lifespan is also defined by helping one's neighbour, sacrificing self for the good of the many, living in relative peace with all others.... etc. Can we learn those in a vacuum? Or do "religious teachings" (whether written by "God", or by some genious philosopher) play a part in shaping those characteristics in us?


Given that "Religious teachings" exist, did they come from "God"? Somebody took an awful lot of bother to write down all those Judeao-Christian testaments and keep them alive all those years. For someone who possibly didn't exist, Christ sure had a big influence on the planet. As, obviously, have had Buddha and Mohammed and others.

And that is where Hedley's "Religion and Drugs" comment is so true..... Many people.... I would argue MOST people.... have had their lives influenced by "religious teachings". And I would argue that for MOST of those, this has been beneficial to their own lives, and to the lives of their co-habitants on this planet....

But for a few.... including a significant number of our otherwise rational leadership.... it is an opiate that clouds their reason. It produces a very non-religious tunnel vision that includes intolerance, violence, greed, control-over-others.... all things which are hardly "religious", and certainly not Christian.

If their God DOES exist, he would certainly not approve of THEIR Religion.






...

[Icebound]

An aging mother had 4 sons. Each of them thought they should do something special for her.

So Son number 1 bought her a huge mansion to live in.

Son number 2, outfitted her mansion with a wonderful theatre room.

Son number 3 bought her a bid Mercedes to get around in.

But Son number 4 was the thoughful 1. He knew mother liked to read the bible, but it was tough to do that in her old age, so he hit upon a brilliant idea. He got the pet breeders to train an exotic parrot to recite the entire Bible. All you had to do was say the name of a Chapter you wanted to hear, and the parrot would recite it verbatim...

After the training was done, Son 4 presented the parrot to Mom.


After a while in her new home with her her theatre and her car, she wrote the sons her thank-you notes.

To son 1 she said "This house has 20 rooms, and I only need 3; Its way too big but thanks anyway"

To 2 she said: "My hearing is bad and my eyesight is not great. I really can't make use of the lovely theatre, but thanks anyway"

To 3 she said: "I really don't get around much anymore, but it's a lovely car. Thanks anyway"

Finally to Number 4 she wrote: "I'm glad at least one of you got me something practical. The chicken tasted great."

[flyinthebug]

Some very good replies. Interesting to see how some think. JAC, thanks for clarifying your position. I just thought you came off a bit hard on Darkwing when all he was trying to say was if he was wrong, he was wrong for a lifetime, not eternity. Either way, I believe Icebound said it best (2^) that about sums it up. Like I said, organized religion is for the weak.
Oh and I am slightly Dyslexic and meant 73 generations, not 37. My bad.

[Siddley Hawker]

This control leads to some very un-Godly corporate sins.... not the least of which is "selling" salvation like it were a commodity of some type.

So that's where the trading of carbon credits came from. One learns something new every day.

The poll also omitted the GGOTU.

[BibleMonkey]

I'm still trying to find out where the big bang came from or what caused it?..."

Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas


http://beta.thehindu.com/sci-tech/article321718.ece
Step ahead in search for God particle

....It is the analysis of this data that could lead to the discovery of the Higgs boson, also called as the ‘God particle’, that is believed to have existed when the universe was born, said Prof Satyaki Bhattacharya of Delhi University who is involved in the LHC experiment.

Researchers will sift through the subatomic debris of proton collisions for signs of extra dimensions that will bolster belief in “supersymmetry”, a theory that doubles the number of particle species in the universe.....
...CERN Director General Rolf Heuer said scientists hope by the end of this year to make discoveries into the mysterious dark matter that they believe comprises a quarter of the whole universe. The better understood visible universe makes up only five per cent of the universe.

Dark matter has been theorised by scientists to account for missing mass and bent light in faraway galaxies. They believe it makes galaxies spin faster.

A separate entity called ‘dark energy’ makes up the remaining 70 per cent of the universe, and this is understood to be associated with the vacuum that is evenly distributed in space and time. It is believed to accelerate the expansion of the universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgsless_model

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_1.1#Text


Just pick any one and run with it...

[Darkwing Duck]

I would rather believe in God and try to live by His faith and come judgement day find out He doesn't exist then not to believe and find out He truly is in fact real.

That is one silly way of looking at the whole situation, I gotta say... so, you will live your life by rules and regulations you may not necessarily agree with or understand, just because there might be a magical man in the sky??? That's kind of scary... you must really fear death if that is the case.

I try to live my life by the rules just like most others. In fact I have broken a number of them, mans and God's (No I have never killed anyone or stolen something) . What make you think I am scared to die? On the contrary. Not that I am going to run into traffic or jump off a cliff, but when my time comes, I will welcome it.

The Bible, the Koran, whatever... they're fictitious... they're just stories. Sorry guys, you can't live in a fish. You can't walk on water. Snakes can't speak English. Women didn't magically appear from the rib of a man. These things DID NOT happen... and if you teach them to your children (especially if you are teaching true Creationism), you are seriously sabotaging their futures.

And you have proof this is fictitious how? First off English was not a language back then, so the snake could not of been speaking that. How do you know Johna did not live in the fish? Never gone fishing by yourself and caught that monster of a fish that got away. ("Really dude, it was this big") You are Canadian are you not, as most of us here on this forum are? We walk on water every winter, it is just a little stiffer then normal. And Eve coming from Adam's rib. They were the first two people on the earth. HELLO There were only two of them. If you need more clarification may I suggest the most popular best selling book on the market. You will find it in the Religion and Spirituality section of Chapters. It is called the “Holy Bible”

Oh yah and from your other post, Just Another Canuck, I know you are not trying to bash me and I do not take it personally just as I hope you do not take this personally, the earth is not 5000 yrs old. It is 6000, give or take a couple decades. I will pray for you JAC

That bumper sticker is right (but remember without God there would be no science.) Allot of religions are fanatical. I was raised Roman Catholic but do not practice anymore. Why, because I think it is a hypocritical sect. I am not Mormon or Jehova Witness because of some of the beliefs and practices they have. I am even thinking of leaving the congregation I belong to because of some of the stuff they do and say. I know a heck of allot of Muslims and I am sure not one of them would become a suicide bomber or proclaim Jihad on the infedels. There are all sorts of whacked up beliefs on what is right and what is not. So do I judge anyones beliefs? No, but I am old enough to make my decision and hopefully I try to take the correct path that will lead me to life everafter.

In God we trust...

[grimey]

If you need more clarification may I suggest the most popular best selling book on the market. You will find it in the Religion and Spirituality section of Chapters. It is called the “Holy Bible”

Why would I buy a bible when I can get one for free from the hotel room night stand? Religious people have no common sense.

[Darkwing Duck]

If you need more clarification may I suggest the most popular best selling book on the market. You will find it in the Religion and Spirituality section of Chapters. It is called the “Holy Bible”

Why would I buy a bible when I can get one for free from the hotel room night stand? Religious people have no common sense.

That is what it is there for. And who says Religious people have no common sense.

[OhKiE DoHkIe]

Good, we're starting to warm up this topic now that the jokes (and jokers) have said their shtick in the first page

Dear flyinthebug,

A fourteenth century Moroccan vagabonder, Ibn Battuta frequently exercised his self-effacing sense of humor during a 28 year journey through Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. In one instance something he came across reminds me of my own experiences but much less graphic. Buttuta found himself lost in a Persian city and asked a local dervish if he could speak Arabic. He wanted a translation for a word that would bring him to a place of worship in order to partake in local customs and cultural displacement from his own.
The following is what he experienced and wrote about:

While this sultan was sitting in audience, I saw a man with a knife in his hand resembling a book-binders tool. He put the knife to his own neck and delivered a long speech which I did not understand, then gripped it with both hands and cut his own throat.
So, sharp was the knife and so strong was his grip that his head fell to the ground. I was amazed at his action.
The sulton turned to me and said, "Does anyone do this in your country?"

Who are we to judge the customs, religion or belief of any other culture?

To me, the ones who refuse to open their minds to any and all possibilities are the ones that sabotage their childrens future. Having faith and passing it on to our children.. is anything but sabotage.

I think what darkwing was saying is.. If he is wrong, he is wrong for a lifetime. If you are wrong, you are wrong for eternity. I guess you`d have to believe in something to understand that statement.
Rant over.

After reading my story about Ibn Battuta's travels...who are you, or I to pollute any child's mind with a belief that our customs and beliefs are the MOST correct ones? I guess you`d have to believe in a 'greater' understanding of mankind to understand that statement. (rhetorical question but feel free to reply)

[Hedley]

where the big bang came from or what caused it?

Good question. You need to start by learning more about time. Everyone on earth thinks time is a constant, steady thing which everyone in the Universe experiences the same, but that simply isn't true.

P.S. I am surprised that sincere, religious people use computers and the internet. One would think that all the science that produced it would be repugnant to them. Didn't the religious people once lock a guy up for simply noticing that the earth rotated around the sun? All the scientific advances since then must be simply incredible blasphemy for them. I can't imagine that any truly religious person would avail themselves of the products of blasphemy and heresy.

[iflyforpie]

where the big bang came from or what caused it?

Good question. You need to start by learning more about time. Everyone on earth thinks time is a constant, steady thing which everyone in the Universe experiences the same, but that simply isn't true.

P.S. I am surprised that sincere, religious people use computers and the internet. One would think that all the science that produced it would be repugnant to them. Didn't the religious people once lock a guy up for simply noticing that the earth rotated around the sun? All the scientific advances since then must be simply incredible blasphemy for them. I can't imagine that any truly religious person would avail themselves of the products of blasphemy and heresy.

What I find amazing is that when you read Stephen Hawking's 'A Brief History of Time', that while explaining away the birth and nature of the universe to the best of his knowledge, he is very careful to include the possibility (actually more like probability) of a Creator.

I am a Christian (not Religious) and my study of science has had a terrible effect on certain Religious Christian dogmas, but not Christianity itself. I find it hard to look into the sky with a telescope, zoom into a Mandlebrot Set, or even watch my children grow and learn without thinking somebody put this all here for us to discover and enjoy.

Do I have all the answers? No. Is my life a mess? Yes. I think you'll find when it all comes down to it, nobody can provide enough (or any) empirical evidence for what they believe. Belief in pretty much anything takes a certain amount of faith...

[parallel60]

All interesting posts. I find the older I get, the more confused I am by the whole thing. I was raised a Catholic but the only reason I am Catholic was because my parents were Catholic and their parents and so forth. I could just as easily have been raised a Muslim, I wouldn't know the difference. I do agree with many of the teachings of religion, live by the Ten Commandments, be nice to others, that sort of thing. And I really do hope that there is a Heaven that I can one day visit, but I have seen no proof of it. The more I learn about science the more I believe in Evolution, although really, at the end of the day, how much can a human that lives on average roughly 70 years, really understand about it all? I find myself with more questions as I gain age.

For example, take our profession for example. Look at how tied to our planet our profession is. FOSSIL FUELS? What makes an airplane? What is it we put into our tanks so casually everyday? Gas? What is that? Well its removed from the ground? Ok, why is it down there?

"Fossil fuels are fuels formed by natural resources such as anaerobic decomposition of buried dead organisms. The age of the organisms and their resulting fossil fuels is typically millions of years, and sometimes exceeds 650 million years.[1] These fuels contain a high percentage of carbon and hydrocarbons."

Remove fossil fuels and ask ourselves.....does this forum exist? Would the airplane have been invented. I find it soooo interesting how closely tied to our planet and environment we are.

And how much we rely on our Sun. The life giving energy it provides us with. Oxygen? Water? Things that our body's can not survive without. Einstein's quote, "If honeybees disappeared off the face of the earth today, the current population would have enough food for 4 years." What? That can't be, we are humans, superior and more intelligent than any organism out there. Very self-absorbed thinking. I mean really, I love the idea that we are all here for a specific purpose, its very comforting and gives me a very warm feeling inside. But is it true? Having evolved over billions of years from a single cell, just doesn't make me feel as good inside although it seems much more realistic.

If we break our bodies down to the atomic level, it is amazing how connected we all our, "to each other, biologically, to the earth, chemically, and to the Universe, atomically."-Neil deGrasse Tyson-Astrophysicist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QADMMmU6ab8

It is so easy to get caught up by day to day life, I do it all the time! The car you drive, the contents of your bank account, your house, worrying about the future etc....all of these things.

One thing I never forget to think about is the fact that the only reason why I am typing this message right now is because my parents gave birth to me, thats it, no warm and fuzzy feeling for existence. But at the same time, thats amazing in itself for all of us!

I remember reading somewhere that when a few of the Apollo astronauts returned to earth after seeing the earth from that perspective, they would go to a local mall for days and just sit on a bench and stare at people passing by in awe. Wishful thinking here, but I wonder how different life would be for us, if everyone on earth was able to view the planet from that perspective? I really wish I could share the same feeling someday...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgg2tpUVbXQ

[niss]

The Bible, the Koran, whatever... they're fictitious... they're just stories.

Careful with that, while I do not fall for the hocus pocus aspect of these stories there are certain parts that are accepted as fact, especially parts that take place during the 2nd Temple Era, even stories of the ancient Israelite (civilization wise, not theological/miracle wise) I believe were substantiated by archeology.

I prefer to accept the bible as a historical recording of events with a religious slant. There really was a Hasmonean dynasty (Jewish Autonomous rule) in Judea that succeed the selucid assyrian invasion (These events led to the story of Hannukah). Did the miracle of the oil really happen? Probably not, did the miracle of a small band of Jews winning against a vast army? Sort of. The number of the Jews paled in comparison to the Assyrian empire, so it was impressive, but the Maccabees were also religious zealots killing any Jew who converted to Hellenism, so of course when the victor wrote the history it was their God who helped.

One thing that always made me wonder:
Most Jewish holidays (Hannukah, Passover,Purim etc) revolve around the theme of 1)They tried to kill us 2)We won/survived 3)Lets eat.

Maybe in 1000 the New Old Testament will include a story about how an evil leader by the name of Hitler lead the German empire to destroy the chosen people. Through their faith and with help from their God the invading german armies were destroyed and God once again fulfilled his promise to the chosen people.......yada yada yada.....

I am a Christian (not Religious) and my study of science has had a terrible effect on certain Religious Christian dogmas, but not Christianity itself......

Is my life a mess? Yes.
...

The good lord giveth thine volvo and the good lord shall taketh!

One question no one has been able to answer for me.

God was able to somehow form a planet, a solar system, and a universe. He created hundreds of thousands of species, and made each one unique to cope with their environment. He created creatures that defy all logic and common sense.

He is everywhere, can see everything, lifts mountains, destroys civilizations.

Why the hell did he need to take a break on the 7th day? Seems kind of lazy for an omnipotent being, no?

[trey kule]

Why the hell did he need to take a break on the 7th day? Seems kind of lazy for an omnipotent being, no?

An excellent question There have been several answers posed by theological sages throughout history in response to this seeming bit of non-omnipotentcy.

It has been suggested it was a union rule. Labor laws were also brought foth as a possible explanation. But the simple fact, as discovered by the great theologian, Fabricatus, was that after creating eveything, on the 7th day the lawn need mowing.

If one takes the time to read the first book of the old testament they will quickly see that the God(s) (Yes, plural, even in the Christian King James Version) walked in the garden while discussing the creation of mankind (after several failed attempts at genetic splicing in Africa, but that is a different story). So there you have it. Lawns were created. Gods liked walking in the garden. No one else to cut them....it all makes perfect sense...No need to thank me.

What has always puzzled me is the assumption that the first books of the old testament refer to the creation of mankind.
They clearly make mention that there were other humans around (unless the whole Cain/Abel family spat thing was not true)
And why, if Jesus was a spiritual being born of the virgin Mary, does a great deal of the book of Mathew (Gospel?) dedicate itself to the genieology of Jesus' cuckholded father Joesph.

And now I must go back to my coffee and the pondering of more important questions such as how anyone so great could produce a cup that the rim is so hard to roll up.

[Brewguy]

Since we have so many experts here, I'll pose another theological question...
The Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam apparently share common roots; so where the heck did Islam get its belief in Genie's (the Jinn) from?

[mashowski]

I am neither an atheist, agnostic, or religious. I am spiritual and believe in a God, but I don't know anything about him or her, or it. That is just my spiritual belief and I don't want to impose it on anyone. I do know that we are all brothers and we have to look after each other for the time that we do spend on earth. My two cents.
Larry